A Challenging Install - Others said No

rcdallas

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jun 3, 2006
1,914
0
West Texas (midland)
Well, just when satellite installs started to get boring, I finally got to do a install that tested my edurance and skill as a DISH installer.

Here's the scoop, about 6 weeks ago, I roll on a New Connect, 3 room install, 211/622 - 119/110/129 orbital out in the backwoods surrounded by tree cover, as I turn onto the street I start thinking yeah right.

Customer currently has/had DirectTV dish so there must be some hope, so I go onto the roof with my Suunto, checking for LOS to the 110/119, it looks ok, so I then obviously seeing I can't get the 129, so I look for the 61.5, looks like I have the option of putting 61.5 kitty corner of the roof. Cake install - add a wing dish right? Nope.

As I start to unload the van, right as I'm about to start installing the mast for the 110/119, I figured I should double check for LOS before I do any drilling, sure enough my LOS for the 119 looks like it would only last until the trees filled in, so I ruled it out.

I could not get LOS for a Dish 500 on 110/119 on one single dish. So I end up spending 1.5 hours going over the customer's entire property, seeing what all my options where... I finally ended up finding I can get the 110 on the roof of the house, 61.5 kitty corner, 119 other side of his yard, only problem with the 119 is there's a tree branch pointed right dead smack in the middle of the path.

I talk everything over with the customer, advise him about the tree branch, and advised it would have to be a 3 dish install spread everywhere, and this type of install is strictly more or less geared for the "power user", and if I did it, it would work well, and for a very long time -- Customer reschedules, I advise him if it's not me, I'm willing to bet the next tech will laugh and call NLOS and ride off.... time goes by, I hear nothing about it.

A couple of days ago at a team meeting, indirectly I'm being bitched at if I roll onto a job, do not make promises to customers, you cancel a job if its NLOS along with a bunch of other BS. I say nothing, but I am thinking about that particular job in the back of my mind throughout the day.

Sure enough today I look at my work order, look at the notes, and its that job, I'm thinking hell yeah.... I see notes on there about the customer being upset because the last couple of techs out there said it could not be done, customer paid to have tree branch cut off, keep in mind the last tech out there is the one who's installed for years..... I'll end that there.

Anyhow, I roll onto this job this morning, enroute I change the work order for the correct equipment, I spent 30 minutes on the phone, apparently DISH does not have a way to reflect 3 dish installs, apparently noone ever does one, anyhow I line my ducks in a row and plan how I'm going to knock it out. I pull up, get out and check my position for the pole on the 119 in the yard, and sure enough I got it. Customer comes out, I tell them it's going in.

By golly 7.5 hours later it was finished, and I tell you what, it'll work for years upon years provided how the dishes are strategically placed for LOS. Boy where they happy they finally have High Definition, I know DirectTV could not of done it off of there fancy oval looking dish, I know comcrap sucks in that area.

All in all, it's rare where you can find LOS using single dishes on the 119/110/61.5, its usually either of the two.

110, I'm 5 degrees above tree line, 119 I am 5 degrees below tree branches, about 5 feet to the left of the tree trunk, and 61.5 I'm smokin wide open about 12 degrees above.trees period at that I don't see the aging trees growing much more anyhow, there already tall as can be, plus at the distance back I am, I estimate about 15-20' above @ 110 location. The 119 dish is about 60' from the house.

Here's some pics....
 

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And they allowed you to use a DPP 44....with no b*tching or moaning from Dish? Ok. Curious....how did you manage that one?

BTW...nice use of the underground (orange) rated coax :)

EDIT: hahahaha...just noticed the cable company's groundblock...going freaking vertical!!!
 
I had to do the same kind of thing once. VERY tight LOS on everything - 119,110 and 129. I had one hole in the trees. Pretty good size hole, but not enough to fit a single dish solution into. Talked with the customer and ended up setting up three poles several feet away from each other in a row. One for each bird. Used a DP Dual on each one and put them together with a 34 switch. Thankfully he was only hooking up two rooms, so I only had to run a single line of double strand wire to the house. If more techs looked for ways to get things done instead of how NOT to do them, DISH would have a larger customer base.
 
I spent 30 minutes on the phone, apparently DISH does not have a way to reflect 3 dish installs, apparently noone ever does one,
We do all the time cause any double,triple or four lnbs do not dishes work here,Any how I fell your pain every day;) Great Job thoug:up
 
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Yes very good job. I have done the same thing a few times. It is a pain in the neck, but when the customer is happy I am happy.

On another note I have been sent to jobs where an installer before me said NLOS and there was plenty LOS, just goes to show, who cares.
 
Nice job, but why do they make you use that god awful orange coax? Is that local code or something? I am sure it is flooded, and I know it is to prevent someone from digging it up, but I have only seen orange cable on underground utilities from ped to ped or vault to vault, not visible on the premise.

I hope you get paid by the hour, you earned it.
 
I was wondering the same thing about the orange cable.
 
If more techs looked for ways to get things done instead of how NOT to do them, DISH would have a larger customer base.
I doubt it.... I'd bet the typical customer isn't interested in having a dish "farm". Even the OP alluded to "and this type of install is strictly more or less geared for the "power user"".
 
So I end up spending 1.5 hours going over the customer's entire property,


By golly 7.5 hours later it was finished, and I tell you what, it'll work for years upon years provided how the dishes are strategically placed for LOS. Boy where they happy they finally have High Definition, I know DirectTV could not of done it off of there fancy oval looking dish, I know comcrap sucks in that area.

Hmmm, nice to see that you got it in but Im surprised that Rita or your FSM wich ever it is there at Ann Arbor now didnt rip you a new one for spending more than 30 mins on the property walk and when you had to spend almost 8 hours on the install how many other jobs did you have to pass off to other installers? If your not catching flak for either of these issues then you are lucky enough to be on someones good side at the offices.

Nice job, but why do they make you use that god awful orange coax? Is that local code or something? I am sure it is flooded, and I know it is to prevent someone from digging it up, but I have only seen orange cable on underground utilities from ped to ped or vault to vault, not visible on the premise.

I hope you get paid by the hour, you earned it.

I was wondering the same thing about the orange cable.


Dish requires the use of flooded burial and if an installer doesnt use it then it is a negative mark on a job check.
 
The other issue is, What does DISH want? I am all for custom installations, that is a lot of my work, but speaking purely on a employer / employee basis, a company has the right to establish what actions their employees perform.

In my area, DNSC has a 20 degree wide CLOS for 110 and 119. If an installer cannot get a CLOS with 5 degrees on each side of 110 and 119, they are to call it NLOS. Any small deviation in the compass can easily put 119 or 110 very close the trees. If the company requires their installations to be performed from a single dish or at least co-located dishes, then that is their right.

This is were the independent installer comes in to play. We can charge the customer for extra work to cover the cost of non-standard labor and materials.
RCDALLAS does go that extra mile, he is the exception to what I have seen come from DNSC or contracted fulfillment companies. I have also seen a major decline in quality from independent installers. This has left many customers without access to quality installers. In general, the "in-house" corporate installers do not do custom work, and the quality independents cannot exist with so much of the work being consumed by the in-house installers.

Either DISH and DTV will have to create a new division of their in-house network to handle these "custom" installs or work more closely with independent dealers, who can provide customer work.

RCDALLAS has shown that a little hard work can get things done, I just hope he does not get in trouble for actually caring about a customers needs. On the other hand, if he was told NOT to offer this type of work, does the employer have the right to take action?
 
Well, just when satellite installs started to get boring, I finally got to do a install that tested my edurance and skill as a DISH installer.

<blah blah>

Here's some pics....

YOU are the kind of installer/service tech I dream about. For any kind of service, satellite, electrical, plumbing...take your time, explain things to me, do it right but don't bulls%#t me. I may not know everything there is to know about installation but my BS detector is finely tuned. I don't mind paying extra for extra labor as long as it's done right. Hell, I'll even help if you need 3 hands.
 
Flooded cable also comes in black. The question is, why orange?
Not sure, maybe for visibility to both more easily verify that the correct coax was used and for anyone doing lawn care and any kind of landscaping or having to dig up the ground but to me what ever the color its not appealing to see it at all.


Definitely it is a clean install for the most part though I would have put the ground blocks lower and closer to the switch but all that aside unless he charged the customer for the third dish and for any line trenching over 50ft and for the labour over the amount of time that job dictated then he is costing the company money and dish is now all about squeezing as much blood out of its techs as they can.
 
Thank you all for the replies. I asked quality assurance to go out there the moment I left the property, to see what he thinks. It's a good thing, I seemed to have really pissed a Senior Lead Tech off because I did a job that I knew could be done. Looks like that person didn't do their job instead found a way to get out of it. It's not a NLOS, it's a 3 dish install install. The customer knew exactly what they were getting, and had plenty of time to think about it.

Orange direct burial is what we have at our office. Technically it's required.

Everyone has read in on the DISH blasting it's contractors thread, the stuff is true around the country. the tech's must fix their stuff, do it code, educate you and sign off a checklist for every single job to the "T".

Van- I figure I'm an hourly employee, what do I care how long I spend on a job, I do exactly what DISH tells me to do and leave it at that. You want a job complete and a checklist, here you go. Give me the right tools and good van to work with each and everyday, with all the hardware to go along with it, you can send me out across the country and not hear back from me until I'm done rain or shine. I'm hourly, if they continue to give me everything I need to do my work "One & Done" with the new stack ranking based on 40% completion, 40% tc with in 21 days based on FSS II, 20% How fast you can complete, I can pretty much say screw the points per hour and just take my time do good work and maintain at the top. Everyone else will just continue to cancel or loose it on the T/C putting me ahead.

The ball is in their court, if they want me to do chicken sh*t install that's fine, otherwise don't route me hard, or you'll hate me for working round the clock showing up at 11pm on my last job doing installs finishing by 3 am, wondering why there are so many trouble calls and customers bitching that it's never worked right from day one. That's being real.

As for custom work, nope I've never been told I can and can not do, I just do what the installation manager tells me to do, put it to bed and I avoid at all costs from ever calling her during the day telling her I couldn't do this, or some other lame excuse.

Webbydude- I just asked corporate to mark a 44 on the work order, the worst they could ever say is no. Whether or not they just a little more lenient with DNS techs vs RSP's who knows - things change all the time.

If anything I thank satelliteguys for teaching me more then anyone else.
 
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Webbydude- I just asked corporate to mark a 44 on the work order, the worst they could ever say is no. Whether or not they just a little more lenient with DNS techs vs RSP's who knows - things change all the time.

If anything I thank satelliteguys for teaching me more then anyone else.

The only reason why I commented on the 44 was that our RSP has gotten b*tch-slapped a zillion times from DNS whenever we, as techs, modified a superdish/D500+/D1000+ workorder to reflect a 44 versus a 34. Personally, I don't see what the problem is. If a customer has the opportunity to have single cable runs feeding a dual tuner, why the hell NOT give it to them? :)
 
It is nice to see a tech that does quality work.

DNS installer told my dad he had no LOS.

I picked a Dish 500 off of Ebay. Brough over one of my receivers. And did the install.

Dad called and had another tech come out. I was there when he came out.
We explained the situation to the tech, showed him the work and the signal strength. (115 on 119 sat and 113 on 110 sat). The tech gave me a new dish and mounting arm, and just swapped out the twin legacy LNB for a Quad DP LNB (Dad was getting a 3 tuner install)

Before the tech left he said I should go an apply at the office because I did better work than most of the techs that work out of their office.

2 years later and the system still works great. no rain fade. No LOS issues.

The 1st tech that came out was just lazy, and because the install took a bit of work he no LOS'ed it to move onto an easier job.
 

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