a n00b

[kuntryw]

hello guys,first let me say this is a fine forum with lots of great info.
thanks guys for all the hard work.
i have been reading through these forums for about a week now and i am still lost on several things.
i have just purchased the MKit-6 FTA- C/KU Choice Set from sadoun .
let me explain my setup, i live in the mountains in Alabama so i was thinking with my being so far south that maybe the 6 ft dish would be ok.
i dont know if it matters much but in my yard it's pretty clear of trees,but at about 50 yards either way i'm surrounded by tree lines and have mountains all around me. where i am thinking to put everything up is in my front yard about 30 ft in front of my trailer,this gives me about the maximum distance all around from the tree lines.
will the trailer be an obstacle?

also i am a little confused with the geosat c/kuband lnbf.
it has 2 coaxial outputs,one on the side where the square box is and one at the very back end of the lnb.
is one of these for c band and the other for ku band or do i run one wire for both?
also is there some kind of step by step guide for this particular equipment?
i am really lost as to what needs to be hooked up to what to find my signal?
also i am using a cnx duo receiver,can i hook the coaxial straight from the lnb to the receiver and find a signal or do i need to hook it through the gbox?
sorry to ask so many questions but i am truely lost,if it is to much to answer point me toward some guides and i'll gladly read those.
thanks.

 

[Lak7]

Nice set up!

is one of these for c band and the other for ku band or do i run one wire for both?

A wire from each.
Would connect wires like this:

C Band LNB (square box)-------Switch Port 1\
..............................................................\
................................................................----Switch Out---------GBox------Receiver
............................................................../
Ku Band LNB (End)-------------Switch Port 2/

But to Start, I would wire this way, until a signal is locked:

C Band-------GBox--------Receiver

Do you know where you need to point the Dish and what angles to set?

 

[Anole]

edit: took me a while to track down the Mkit-6 on Sadoun's site.
Also, I looked up the CNX Duo, to make sure it wasn't a dual tuner.
If it is motor-friendly, you should be good to go.
Here is an old review of the CNX Trio, that may be worth a look.
/edit

Here is some additional info that may help you:

Can you see the satellites?
ThisBUDsForYou and his soda straw inclinometer
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...a-straw-inclinometer-line-sight-pictures.html
Delta Charlie had some variation on the idea, too
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/146479-15-min-duct-tape-elevation-gauge.html

Connectors on your LNB, and setting the initial skew on your true south satellite.
Anole pix of skew for CK-1 and BSC-621 LNBf's
http://www.satelliteguys.us/1281374-post50.html

 

[kuntryw]

thanks guys for the quick response.
thanks for those links anole i will read them and thanks for the wiring diagram lak7.

Do you know where you need to point the Dish and what angles to set?

i have found my latitude and longitude and found what seems to be the closest to south bird from me, amc7 101w for c band and galaxy 28 89 w for c band and ku band. i have a compass to get the azimuth but i have no clue on the elevation cause the set up doesnt have elevation markers,only a nut to adjust the elevation up and down. i am going to read the guides anole posted for me on that part.
one thing more about the skew.
on this dish do i have to set the skew cause it doesnt seem that the dish has skew adjustments.
again i am new to this so maybe i dont know where to look,i have only ever fooled with the18" dishes from dishnetwork.
thanks again guys.

 

[turbosat]

What part of the state are you in? I might be close enough to come help with setup. I'm about 30mi n of Larry Langford's Kingdom lol.

 

[Sadoun]

What part of the state are you in? I might be close enough to come help with setup. I'm about 30mi n of Larry Langford's Kingdom lol.

This is so cool. An FTAer willing to drive 60 miles round trip to help another fellow FTAer is awesome. :up

 

[kuntryw]

thanks guys. i am about 3 hours from b'ham NW. i tried the straw setup and it looks like i am pretty clear in the sky,most of my sats are set at an elevation of 23-50 the far west being the 23. i am about to sink my pole and do a test run before i cement everything in.i want to make sure i can get a signal from my spot before i make everything permanent.
thanks again guys i'm sure i will have many more questions.

 

[Lak7]

Can you list your Long and Lat?
Your True South Sat is any Sat on (or as close to) Your Long.
I'm at 88 west, smack in the middle of 2 Sats. So I had to just pick one, Lock the Signal, then adjust for the 1 degree back to center.
When looking for your South Sat, make sure the Dish is at its Highest Point, then twist the Dish on the Pole vs. using the Arm to move the dish.

Ask questions, all the instructions in the world, and a book, still can't explain it all.
It's not hard, just a learning curve with a wrench in the hand.

 

[kuntryw]

thanks again. i have quit for the night but i will be back on it tomorrow.
my longitude is 87.35 and latitude is 34.44. i set up my pole and dish today and ran all my wiring,the acuator is working
i'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the elevation and declination.
i have my dish pointed as near as i can tell to around 179 azimuth which is where lyngsat says the 87 sat is from me. using a protractor i have my elevation at roughly 50.
the declination is where i'm having trouble,if i read everything right then my declination should be around 5 degrees? i'm not sure where i am supposed to measure this and if i can use the protractor to measure it.
i have the gbox hooked from my lnb to my reciever,the thing that puzzles me there is for c band the lnb should be set to 5150 right?
that setting gives me zero on my signal strength,but if i set it to 10600 or universal 1 my strength goes to 95,of course i still have zero on signal quality.
i've downloaded some installation videos and some guides and plan to look at all those tonight and hopefully get some sort of signal tomorrow.
thanks guys for all your input,and i will be back to ask more questions.

 

[Lak7]

Make sure the Dish is at it's Highest Point when finding you South Sat!!

....c band the lnb should be set to 5150 right? that setting gives me zero on my signal strength....

Are you only connected to the "Square Box" on the LNBF?
Think of "signal strength" as an indicator you have the wiring correct.

using a protractor i have my elevation at roughly 50.
the declination is where i'm having trouble,if i read everything right then my declination should be around 5 degrees? i'm not sure where i am supposed to measure this and if i can use the protractor to measure it.

To measure Declination, you add the Elevation and Declination together, that is what the back of the Dish should measure.
For you location, using the "Modified Polar Mount" Chart:
34.44 North
87.35 West
I come up with:
Elevation: 35 - Dish pointing straight up t the sky is Zero, or 55 up from the Horizon
Declination: 4.97 (5 is fine to start)
35 + 4.97 = 39.97 or 40 Down from the Sky, or 50 up from the Horizon, at the Back of the Dish.
Now, depending on how the Protractor is marked, make notes to keep things straight.

Here are some pages........
Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C
Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing

 

[kuntryw]

ahhh, very good thanks lak7.
i was trying to set the declination at an actual 5 degrees,which was putting my dish almost straight up and down.
so basically i dont worry about the sat elevations given by lyngsat on this big dish? but rather i set it to my latitude.
i'm going to set it to those numbers you gave me lak7.
my protractor is one made like the ones i saw in the pics anole posted.
i have a school kids protractor on a flat piece of board and a washer tied to it with twine,so when i have it on the mount 90 is pointing down toward the ground and the string falls on the angle.
i am connected to the square box on the lnbf, and that is why i was wondering,cause even on the sats that are both c band and ku,such as amc 3 87 which is where i'm trying to lock in,i set the lnb to 5150 and it shows nothing but if i scroll over to say 131 amc11 which is a c band only bird it goes to 95 when i set my lnb to 5150.
my closest c band only bird would be brasilsat b4 at 84w but my reciever doesnt even show it in it's list of sats.
i have the lnb hooked to the g box,then the gbox hooked to my receiver and then i'm using my receiver menu to find my sats. i have the tv pulled around so that i can see the signal meters.
i feel like i am so close but so far away,i'll keep trying and reading.
thanks again for all your input.

 

[kuntryw]

here is where i am doing my elevation and declination measurements from.

in pic 1 is where i measure my elevation in blue with the protractor. i have that set at 35.

in pic 2 is where i am measuring my declination from in blue. i have that set to 40.

best i can read my compass i am pointing toward about 182 south. i dont have a way to post pics of my actual setup so i just used the one you posted lak7 and copied one from sadoun.
i still cant get anything with my lnb set to 5150 on these c/ku band birds like amc3 87w.
i shut everything off and put my coaxial on the ku band part of the lnb,and set my lnb on the receiver to 10600 at amc3 and the strength jumped up to 90 but still no quality. i turned the dish by hand east and west slowly but never managed to get any signal quality.
TP Frequency is set to 11716 on the receiver.
in the receiver menu i have

Satellite- AMC3
DiSEqC -none
TP Frequency- 11716
LNB- 10600
22KHz Tone- off
Multi-Dish switch- off
Search- all channels
LNB Power- on

S-90
Q-0

 

[Lak7]

and set my lnb on the receiver to 10600

According to the web site, LNB should be set to 10750 not 10600.
It concerns me that you get no Signal Strength on C Band. There is another Thread here with the same Issue with the same LNB, turned out defective - very rare.

After you change the LNB L.O. to 10750....
Did you understand the instructions on installing the LNBF?
Specifically, how to set the Skew. (orient it in the Scalar)

Also, since you can't post a Pic, and I don;t have a good way to ask...
With the Dish at 40 degrees it should be looking higher than 45 degrees, it should be 50 degrees up from the Horizon.

 

[kuntryw]

i had to give up for the day,we got rain and more tomorrow.
on my lnb if i am not mistaken,the arrow on the back of the lnb is to be at the 9 o'clock position and the square box at the 5 o'clock position. i have measured the dish and the lnb seems to be centered as well. also it's my understanding that the the focal point on a 6 footer is 27. so i measured from the center of the dish to the scalar ring and it's 27.5 so i fixed the lnb a half inch past the ring making the distance from the center to the cap of the lnb 27.
on the c band issue i cant understand it either,it does get a signal strength on the c band only birds but nothing on the c/ku band birds. the c band only birds are far east and west from my southern most bird.
i wonder is there a way to test the lnb for sure? i dont have any other lnb's to try out,and as far as i know no one close to me has ever had one of these BUD's.
let me see if i have one thing clear:
once my elevation is correct and my declination and i'm pointed true south,do i manually turn the dish to my nearest bird or do i let the motor turn the dish to find the nearest bird?
also the kit came with a signal finder, i had it hooked up today and thought i had found signal but it turns out that even from the back of the dish whenever the lnb would get closer to the meter it would begin to beep so for some reason the lnb causes the meter to show signal when there is no signal,maybe it is supposed to do that i dont know? i'm using a 6 ft cable to hook the meter to the lnb, i figured that would be long enough.
thanks so much for all your help.

 

[Lak7]

do i manually turn the dish to my nearest bird or do i let the motor turn the dish to find the nearest bird?

You should have the Dish at it Highest Point (center), then twist the Dish on the pole to find your South Sat - AMC3. Remember to have a Live TP selected in the Setup Menu.

it does get a signal strength on the c band only birds but nothing on the c/ku band birds.

In the Receiver, you must have a separate Satellite set up for C and Ku. So for AMC3, you should have something like:
"AMC3 C" with LNB L.O. / Freq: 5150
"AMC 3 Ku" with LNB L.O. / Freq: 10750

i wonder is there a way to test the lnb for sure?

If it shows Signal Strength, it's probably fine.

There are alot of details to learn when setting up your first Dish. It takes time and patients.
Keep asking questions, 'cause the instructions only make sense after you get it up and running.

 

[kuntryw]

THANK YOU LAK7!
amc 3 finally locked and i was able to do a blind scan,and c band pulled in 100 channels in the menu,although the majority of them dont have video or sound.but hey i have signal anyways, so now it's just a matter of tweaking here and there right?
i'm going to try the ku band now at amc 3 and see if i get something there.
on my blind scan it gives me the freq option of 2,4,6,8 or 10 MHz,does it make a difference which one i use?
thanks again man.

 

[Lak7]

Congrats!

Did you try / get both C and Ku?
List some of the Channels / TP you got.
Also compare to Lyngsat
AMC 3 at 87.0°W - LyngSat
If you don't understand how to read, just ask.

my blind scan it gives me the freq option of 2,4,6,8 or 10 MHz,does it make a difference which one i use?

It does. the Lower the Number, the more detailed the Scan, find the weaker signals, if any.
For now use 10.

so now it's just a matter of tweaking here and there right?

Yes.
Tweaking can be time consuming. You first need to determine what needs to be tweaked.
As you go west, see if the signal drops off. If it does, try to determine if raising or lowering the Dish improves signal.
Get the next Sat to the west setup (Galaxy 28 @ 89west), have a Live TP selected, use Lyngsat or SatelliteGuys.US - TheList for Active Transponders.
Move the Dish slowly, 1 "click at a time", until you find it. Make note of the counter on the GBox from AMC3 to Galaxy 28, that will tell you "approx" how many clicks between Sats.

Don't forget to hit the "Save" for the Sat locations. You must drive to each Sat, and Save the Location.

Also, Transponders change all the time, so if you don't see one of the listed TPs, learn to add one manually.

 

[kuntryw]

i'm doing a rescan now,i had a lot of channels called mux 1231 1232 etc.,some alt channels and fox business,it had picture but no sound,and foxc but it got no picture.
some of the channels had sound but no picture and it sounded like there were two voices speaking at the same time in different languages.
i scanned at 4mhz the first time, this time i'm scanning at 2.
also i think i had some channels off of nimiq 91 show up cause i had one called tvland and a couple of channels called RCVU which were all scrambled.
when saving i need to save the sat position on both my receiver and the gbox correct?
also i'm not sure if my actuator is positioned correctly,with my dish at true south i extended the actuator arm out to halfway then mounted it to the dish,my idea was this would get me equal space both ways since amc3 is actaully 180 degrees for me according to my compass.
thanks

 

[Lak7]

when saving i need to save the sat position on both my receiver and the gbox correct?

Just in the Receiver, it saves it in the GBox at the same time.

also i'm not sure if my actuator is positioned correctly,with my dish at true south i extended the actuator arm out to halfway then mounted it to the dish,my idea was this would get me equal space both ways since amc3 is actaully 180 degrees for me according to my compass.

You will not be able to drive the Dish from Horizon to Horizon, and catch all the Sats. You need to decide what part of the sky you want. What I would do is take care of any mechanical tweaking that needs to be done. Then retract the arm almost all the way, losen the clamp and slide the arm down until you are at the furthest Western Sat as you can see. Maybe AMC8 or AMC7 and tighten the Clamp. Then work your way back East Locking the Sats as you go. I'd guess you will be able to see the Sat at 55.5 west before you run out of arm.

But you first need to be tracking the Arc.
So try for a C Band Sat in the far West, see what you can get.

 

[kuntryw]

i dont think i'm the right bird,the channels i'm showing and transponders the blind scan is picking up dont match lyngsats list.
i'm already showing 64 channels again on tv and 9 on radio.
some of the channels the list is showing are
alt3
alt4
mu1221-1223
nghd
fxehd
fbnhd
mux1211-1212
bthd
fxe
fxw
tvg
fmc
fox news- di
atlantic- di
central- di

i'm up to 93 channels in the list now while typing.
it also takes it along time to scan, close to an hour.