Anik G1 Online. Not strong in the Southwestern U.S.

[lost_mesa]

One by one, the transponders on Anik G1 have been lighting up today. At my location near Santa Fe, New Mexico, the signal is pretty weak compared to Anik F1r, but at least there is some signal.

In the attached scan the signal from Anik G1 is below 11,700 MHz and Anik F1r is above. This is with a Geosat Pro 90 cm dish with an Avenger PLL321 universal LNBF.

Unlike most satellites, the H and V transponders are not offset in frequency from each other. Probably this was a more efficient use of the two 125 MHz chunks of spectrum they are licensed for, but might make LNB skew more critical.

I don't have a receiver that can lock these signals, so no way to get a quality number, if it would even lock at these low levels. Anyone else seeing anything?

 

[miguelaqui]

Is there any way to tell with a Shaw receiver if I can get signal before they put channels on?

 

[Jumbo Dumbo]

Is there any way to tell with a Shaw receiver if I can get signal before they put channels on?

No - the only way is like lost_mesa used.

As mentioned previously - DO NOT INSTALL XKU LNBF if you are outside the footprint.

 

[mikekohl]

Congratulations on being one of the first to find Anik G1, from a surprisingly southern location. The original footprint maps cut off at +48 dBw, which means that reasonably sized antennas can work for the next 5-6 dB down, and the big question is "how gradually does it drop", as well as how far out will it work at all, with no limits on antenna size.

I have access to a new 2-output Ku-band LNBF specifically made for Anik F1R/G1 combination, which is backwards compatible to the 107 part of the Xtended Quad Ku-band LNBF supplied with Shaw antenna systems, but for use on larger offset dishes using a conventional 40 mm neck clamp. You put a conventional 75 to 90 cm offset antenna with standard 10750 MHz local oscillator up for 111, which can work into all of the continental US Lower 48, Canada, Mexico and even into parts of Central America, and a separate dish for 107 with this special LNBF. Join each receiver connection together with a 22 KHz switch or a powered multiswitch. The configuration is identical to that needed to DSR-600, 605 and 630 receivers that have already been mapped for Xtended Quad LNBFs.

What would be very helpful is for anyone interested in providing information on Anik G1 levels south of 40 degrees North latitude, using a 90 cm or larger offset antenna. If you have a universal Ku-band LNBF, and can point your dish to 107, all we need is a spectrum analyzer shot of what you are getting, along with a description of your antenna system (size and type). I suggest Universal LNBFs for initial measurement because they are cheap and widely available already. We can supply the single satellite 107 Ku LNBF for those only equipped with a Shaw DSR-600 series receiver. (200-300-400-500 series receivers will not be helpful, because they cannot decode MPEG-4 signals). Unless I spot a carrier that might work with a Free-To-Air MPEG-4 receiver (most will not because channels are in Digicipher 2), FTA receivers are also less than helpful at this point.

Please post your results here.

 

[pro96]

Here is my results from 34.2N using:

1.2m motorized with 10750Mhz LNBF

Used Crazyscan software (Blindscan) and Prof 7500 USB

 

[mikekohl]

Thank you for the report, but it only covers Anik F1R in the 11700 to 12200 MHz spectrum.
A Universal Ku LNBF would show Anik G1 frequencies in use, all of which are just under 11700 MHz.

 

[pro96]

Thank you for the report, but it only covers Anik F1R in the 11700 to 12200 MHz spectrum.
A Universal Ku LNBF would show Anik G1 frequencies in use, all of which are just under 11700 MHz.

Ok I can switch my LNB to universal .. give me a few and I can swap it and re-scan.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[pro96]

BTW.. I am not using a BLSA just simply a Prof 7500 with Crazyscan software. Will that make any difference?

 

[pro96]

Ok here is my results with an Invacom Universal LNBF

 

[mikekohl]

That tells me a lot...I did not expect to see positive results in southern California on a 1.2 meter antenna.
You do have two carriers on the lower spectrum, and I will guess that the one on the right is a beacon frequency or other identifier.

Looking at the Shaw Direct map for Anik G1, the +48 contour crosses the West Coast right above Grants Pass, Oregon, and follows a straight line that would include Boise, Pocatello, Sioux Falls, and La Crosse. Because of the Great Lakes, it dips south under Chicago--to near Cincinnati, and across to the east around Baltimore.

Extrapolating rough distances and adding the report of just usable signal in Santa Fe, New Mexico with a 90 cm dish would mean that somewhere between Sacramento and Fresno should be a similar level. Anyone with a 1.8 or 2.4 meter antenna south of the Bay Area should check things out to see if there is any joy. This would open up Las Vegas, Flagstaff, and maybe Dallas to possibilities. Real-world measurements will bear this trend out, and would be most helpful from Little Rock, Memphis, Shreveport, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and the Carolinas. If you are so equipped with an analyzer, and south of the Mason-Dixon line, we would especially love to hear from you.

One other thought: the frequencies on Anik G1 are the same on both Vertical and Horizontal, so the skew rotation must be dead on.
Our original poster from New Mexico should try rotating skew a little bit to see if the lowest spikes in the center of his display go away completely, while the four carriers on the left improve a bit. The is called nulling out while checking cross-pole. Makes a huge difference, especially in situations where you have two frequencies perfectly matched on opposite polarities.

 

[miguelaqui]

No - the only way is like lost_mesa used.

As mentioned previously - DO NOT INSTALL XKU LNBF if you are outside the footprint.

Too late. As soon as a channel is on, I'll be able to tell you if I can get signal on the 75e dish.

 

[QCK]

Too late. As soon as a channel is on, I'll be able to tell you if I can get signal on the 75e dish.

Please do, thanks!

 

[lost_mesa]

That tells me a lot...I did not expect to see positive results in southern California on a 1.2 meter antenna.
You do have two carriers on the lower spectrum, and I will guess that the one on the right is a beacon frequency or other identifier.

It looks like pro96 is seeing signals at 11.055 and 11.225 GHz, which are outside the frequencies Anik G1 transmits on. Anik G1 extended Ku is only licensed for two segments of this band, 11.075?11.2 GHz and 11.575?11.7 GHz. There are terrestrial signals in this band, so that might be what he is seeing.

Anik G1's beacons are at 11,701.75 and 11,702.75 MHz horizontal. They are narrow band and too close to Anik F1r's transponders for a Pro7500 and Crazy Scan to resolve. The attachment shows a scan I did of the beacons when Anik G1 was at 109.2 degrees. The intermittent nature of the signals in the waterfall display is just an artifact from running Crazy Scan at the same time. It was switching the L.O. freq back and forth between 9.75 and 10.6 GHz.

One other thought: the frequencies on Anik G1 are the same on both Vertical and Horizontal, so the skew rotation must be dead on.
Our original poster from New Mexico should try rotating skew a little bit to see if the lowest spikes in the center of his display go away completely, while the four carriers on the left improve a bit. The is called nulling out while checking cross-pole. Makes a huge difference, especially in situations where you have two frequencies perfectly matched on opposite polarities.

I did set my skew by nulling the opposite polarity on the analyzer. I do have some cable attenuation issues which shows up as the roll off at the high end of the extended Ku band. Also my LNBF is a bit hotter on horizontal (the green trace) than vertical (the red trace). Or did I misunderstand your suggestion? I've attached a somewhat better scan.

I don't think the Pro7500/Crazy Scan combo gives very accurate signal level numbers. Using my boat anchor H.P. spectrum analyzer, I'm seeing the transponders on F1r at 13 to 15 dB above the noise floor. G1 is about 4 to 5 dB above the noise floor. So G1 is about 9 dB weaker. The footprint map for Anik F1r shows about 48 dBW coming my way, which would put Anik G1 at about 39 dBW. A bit seat of the pants, but I hope those numbers are helpful.

Anyone else seeing anything?

 

[mikekohl]

Those numbers look pretty close to what one should expect. In the past, Shaw receivers have been able to pull things out of the mud with anything above a +2.0 dB C/N. Given the lack of separation caused by identical frequencies and only the isolation between Horizontal and Vertical polarities, I would suggest that a 1.2 meter offset would probably be a conservative solution in northern New Mexico...giving you a little more headroom, and the ability to try for 111 at the same time on a separate offset Ku-band LNBF (10750 MHz LO). It's a tight squeeze, but I have a 1.2 meter here in Wisc doing 103-107-111 at the same time, through the magic of 1/2 inch EMT conduit and other fasteners. Ideally you would want separate adjustments for skew and up/down, but if one knows what they are doing, you can often use hose clamps and perseverance to find an acceptable compromise. Or you could use a separate 85 or 90 cm offset for 111. As I noted above, we do have a special 2 output LNBF made strictly for use on 107, with simultaneous reception of Anik F1R and Anik G1 using the same control parameters and very weird local oscillator as found on the combo Quad LNBF made for Shaw.

This way you can use just about anything to get 111, and select the exact sized dish needed for reliable service on Anik G1.

If anyone wishes to start a sticky note on this thread so that we can get some data from around the U.S., it would be appreciated. I suggest the following questions: Make-model-diameter of offset dish.
Make-model-noise figure of Universal Ku LNBF.
Typical dB reading above the noise floor on Anik G1 versus Anik F1R
(switch between 9750 and 10600 LO if necessary to get display of both)
Your Location.

As a second note, anyone with a Shaw Direct 75E antenna equipped with Xtended Quad Ku LNBF that can call up Options 647 command with a DSR-600 or DSR-605 receiver to get an exact measurement in tenths of a dB from separate channels on Anik G1, Anik F1R and Anik F2, please send us your notes. How far south these systems work in the US Lower 48 would be very interesting, given that the antennas are boresighted on 111, using the Multibeam extended Quad Ku LNBF.

 

[pro96]

You kno my readings and I used an .3db Invacom SNH-031 universal LNBF + 1.2m dish in Los Angeles at San Fernando Valley

Posted Using The New SatelliteGuys Reader App!

 

[bayguy]

As a second note, anyone with a Shaw Direct 75E antenna equipped with Xtended Quad Ku LNBF that can call up Options 647 command with a DSR-600 or DSR-605 receiver to get an exact measurement in tenths of a dB from separate channels on Anik G1, Anik F1R and Anik F2, please send us your notes.

I will try this if someone will tell me some channels for G1 I can try this with.

 

[bayguy]

Hi where did every body go? Please tell me some G1 channels and I will try them in California.

 

[mikekohl]

Unless your receiver has mapped some new channels already, that's going to be hard to accomplish.
You will need an Extended Ku LNBF---either one that comes with a stock 75E antenna, or if you are using one of our privately sourced 107-only Extended Ku devices on a bigger offset dish pointed at 107, AND a 600 series receiver that
is mapped for Xtended Ku.

New signals (some small market local stations in standard definition) will be among the first new channels, scheduled to be officially in service on May 29, closely followed by some HD versions of existing Shaw Direct "cable" channels on or about June 1st. Then they will roll out things over the next several weeks.

Until we have a confirmed channel number from someone's existing DSR-600, 605 or 630 receiver, the only way really check things out is by measuring carriers. Thus the previous suggestions about using a Universal Ku-band LNBF on an offset dish, and an analyzer or Digicipher 2 / MPEG-4 compatible receiver to ID things. At least measure how many dB down any Anik G1 carrier is compared to Anik F1R transponders on same polarity. The fact that transponders are exact same frequency on both H and V polarities means that we will have to be extremely precise in alignment of skew/polarity. Even a couple of degrees off will be noticable!

I'll toss out some information on what to look for once we have a few more clues to start the process.

 

[miguelaqui]

I look everyday for new channels mapped on my xku dsr 630 system and haven't seen any new channels. Iwill post as soon as I see a new channel on G1 as well as whether or not I can receive it. I cannot get Bell 91 at all but I can get 82, so I have no idea if the VA/NC border will get anything.

 

[billpa]

It'll be interesting to see how close this map gets to the actual results:

http://www.satbeams.com/!ajax/embed?beam=7527