Apple Airport Extreme network question

[rockymtnhigh]

I have two Airport Extremes; a 4th Gen router which is the main router; in the basement. It feeds the wired network, and creates the wireless network for the house. But because the cable for the modem comes into the basement, I have a distance issue with wifi. I get about a -70 signal for WiFi (Wireless N, Dual Band) upstairs.

So... I added a second Airport Extreme (5th gen) in the living room. Initially it was in my upstairs office, and connected via ethernet, and set to EXTEND an Existing Wireless network. That worked for a while, but for some reason after the power got killed one day, it refused to connect and extend the wireless network with it connected to the existing network via ethernet. BUT if I just let it wirelessly extend the network, with no ethernet connected, it worked fine.

Ultimately I moved it down to the living room, in my entertainment rack; and as a result, I am getting extremely strong connectivity (often a strength of -38) in a wi-fi saturated environment. I can stream netflix in HD for hours with no hiccups, I will occasionally get as good as 40MB download speeds from speedtest via wifi, and 10 up.

Since both of my routers are broadcasting a SSID on 2.4 and 5 GHz, when I do a WiFi scan, Air Radar (a Mac app I bought) detects 4 networks named gateroom, running on channel 4 and 153. Initially I was on channel 1, but I started getting neighbors on the same channel, and I manually selected 4 because it had the least interference. (A lot of activity on 6 and 11; no other 5GHz networks detected).

I chose to use dual band because when I have tried to run JUST 5Ghz, I get much slower speeds and connectivity.

But here is the issue. About every 3 or 4 days, I get a strange scenario where my wi-fi starts dropping. It just shows not connected, I click on the wifi icon, select gateroom, and it comes back, but will disconnect again in a few minutes. REALLY ANNOYING. So, I start investigating, and open the Airport Utility, where I see that while the main AE is set to channel 4, channel 153; the upstairs router is connecting automatically on 11/157. BUT the thing is supposed to completely inherit the properties of the main router. BUT as a result of the network being on two different 2.4Ghz channels, I get drop-outs. I then have to restart the upstairs router (usually updating it to restart via Airport utility does not work; I have to kill the power and start it up again, to get it to inherit the proper channel. When I do, the problem goes away.

The thing that is driving me nuts, is I have NO IDEA why it is doing this.

 

[Ilya]

I don't have much experience with the Apple Airport, so don't think I can help you much with the troubleshooting.
(Does it have an option to prohibit the automatic channel selection?..)
But in general, I would avoid dual-router configurations. A single wireless router strategically placed in the middle of the house should be enough in most cases. Also, in a wi-fi saturated environment (like an appartment building) sometimes reducing the signal strength of the router can actually improve the quality of the connection. This is somewhat counterintuitive, but it works!

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I don't have much experience with the Apple Airport, so don't think I can help you much with the troubleshooting.
(Does it have an option to prohibit the automatic channel selection?..)
But in general, I would avoid dual-router configurations. A single wireless router strategically placed in the middle of the house should be enough in most cases. Also, in a wi-fi saturated environment (like an appartment building) sometimes reducing the signal strength of the router can actually improve the quality of the connection. This is somewhat counterintuitive, but it works!

Well, the cable modem comes into the basement, AND the wired network junction is down there, so its not realistic to have the router in the center of the house. If I could, I would have.

When you are set to use the second router to extend, it is supposed to inherit the settings of the primary router. It does that, for a few days, and then gets a mind of its own.

 

[Foxbat]

I tried the Wireless Extension and gave it up as causing too many problems. I have a similar setup, but with an Airport Express (so i can use iTunes with the stereo) creating a Wi-Fi hot spot on the other end of th house. You can set them up to have the same Wi-Fi settings and let them seek an open channel.

Also, I would swap the two Airports and use the fifth generation Airport as your primary router.

Have you applied the Lion software update on you MacBook? It's supposed to fix some issues with Wi-Fi being dropped.

 

[lparsons21]

I would second Foxbat's suggestion of moving the 5th Gen AE to be your primary router.

I started off with a Time Capsule as router/backup, and then later I changed things around and got 2 of the 5th Gen AEs as refurbs. Put one as main router and the other AE and TC set to extend the network. Set as dual 2.5/5Ghz networks. I've not had a single issue with this setup and get excellent throughput. There is nothing connected via wire to the AE main router except the cable modem.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

When I know my wife will be gone for an hour, (and won't need internet!) I will swap out the two AEs to see if that makes a difference. Thanks.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Oh, and by the way, the Lion update did not have any impact. I installed it the day it came out.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

The dang thing did it again; I restarted the AE5 and it went back to normal. Definitely got to get these two boxes switched; and might actually call Apple Care if it continues.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Have not had a chance to swap out the routers yet, but I realized that somehow the 5th Gen router is kicking into auto mode for the channel, even though it is supposed to inherit the settings of the main router. So... I temporarily switched from extend network to create wireless network, and switch the radio from auto to 153, 4 (what the 4th gen is on), and then switched back to extend network. Now when I look at the network settings on the summary screen, it shows 153, 4 rather than auto (153), auto (4).

We'll see in a day or so if this solves the problem.

 

[Frank Jr.]

Rocky has become an Apple man! Who would have thought? My old Belkin still works fine.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Rocky has become an Apple man! Who would have thought? My old Belkin still works fine.

I tried a Cisco 4200 before the Airport Extreme; it was very unreliable. The Airport has not hiccuped - in terms of the primary router; the issue has been the daisy chaining of two in order to strengthen the wifi over a good distance. We'll see if my solution to the problem worked!

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I tried a Cisco 4200 before the Airport Extreme; it was very unreliable. The Airport has not hiccuped - in terms of the primary router; the issue has been the daisy chaining of two in order to strengthen the wifi over a good distance. We'll see if my solution to the problem worked!

Six days later... and not a problem. My fix worked!!! I love it when I figure something out - and it actually works. Doesn't happen very often!

 

[lparsons21]

Glad to hear it is all OK now.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Have not had a chance to swap out the routers yet, but I realized that somehow the 5th Gen router is kicking into auto mode for the channel, even though it is supposed to inherit the settings of the main router. So... I temporarily switched from extend network to create wireless network, and switch the radio from auto to 153, 4 (what the 4th gen is on), and then switched back to extend network. Now when I look at the network settings on the summary screen, it shows 153, 4 rather than auto (153), auto (4).

We'll see in a day or so if this solves the problem.

BUMP…

So, two years ago I was struggling trying to prevent slow-downs and drop-outs in internet using two Airport Extreme routers (one as an extender). I had changed to wireless channels which were not in use in the neighborhood, but the second device (my extending Airport Extreme) kept kicking channels, and thus causing conflicts. The solution above fixed the problem after much trouble-shooting.

Jump two years ahead, and I am noticing a lot of slow-downs in wireless connectivity. So I run AirRadar, and sure enough there are probably 10 more networks "in range" and ONE is using my 153 channel for 5Ghz. HOW DARE THEY? So, I go to the utility and change to 157, which is NOT in use in range. And change from 4 on 2GHz to 3. And sure enough, the same problems… one stays at 3/157, the other goes to 3/153 (the extender).

So I knew I had solved this, but could not for the life of me remember how, so I started searching in SatGuys, and eventually found this old thread. And it appears that the solution still worked. And my internet is much more responsive. As I am no longer on the same channels..

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Wow, refreshing to have wi-fi zipping along as it is supposed to. Once again SatelliteGuys come to the rescue (even though it was MY OWN SOLUTION, I needed SatGuys to help me recall what the heck I did the first time! )

 

[mike123abc]

The problem with WiFi is that now everyone has it! My house is isolated on 2.5 acres and wire mess plaster walls shielding me from my neighbors. My Office though has a huge list of WiFi SSIDs in range, not to mention all those not broadcasting. It can drag along at times. Luckily I use wired ethernet for almost everything in the office.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

The problem with WiFi is that now everyone has it! My house is isolated on 2.5 acres and wire mess plaster walls shielding me from my neighbors. My Office though has a huge list of WiFi SSIDs in range, not to mention all those not broadcasting. It can drag along at times. Luckily I use wired ethernet for almost everything in the office.

Agreed. I counted 17 networks broadcasting. Surprisingly one ONE 5GHz network, but I get much better when I am on dual band, and not just the one. Alas, my Apple TV, Roku, iPads, and Macbook air require wi-fi. Can't be wired except for the machines in my wife's office and my home office (a PC I rarely use).

 

[jayn_j]

Thanks for bringing this up Mike. I have been having very similar problems. One thing I am noticing is that my primary and secondary wifi access both seem to be binding to 168.192.1.1. I guess both are attempting to be the dhcp server. I also note they are on different channels on both 2.4 and 5 ghz.

Anyway, I guess you have motivated me to track this down today.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Thanks for bringing this up Mike. I have been having very similar problems. One thing I am noticing is that my primary and secondary wifi access both seem to be binding to 168.192.1.1. I guess both are attempting to be the dhcp server. I also note they are on different channels on both 2.4 and 5 ghz.

Anyway, I guess you have motivated me to track this down today.

This time I did not encounter drop-outs, but merely SLOW service. Way too slow for a 100mb connection. It was a problem that got worse over time, and I only realized this morning what the problem might be.

With an Airport Extreme solution, the key was having the second router not only "extend" the network, but to go in and trick it to set its own channels to manual, instead of the AUTO it wanted to.

Anyways, Good luck!

 

[jayn_j]

I did all that was suggested. I also forced the router onto a different ip address. I did fix the channels to be the same on both units.

My results are similar. I am now getting reliable connections without dropouts. I have a 15 MB connection, but am only seeing 10 over the wifi. Still, it is a great improvement over what I was dealing with.

Thanks for getting me off my butt, and for the hints, Mike.