Apple takes the crown from Microsoft today.

[mperdue]

You're comparing apples to oranges. (pardon the pun) You don't compare sales of Windows for PCs to "Apple computing devices" you compare sales of Windows for PC to sales of OSX for Macs. Apple still doesn't come close. If you compare sales of Microsoft Windows for PCs to sales of all Apple devices then yes, it looks better for Apple. You have to do a fair comparison.

Maybe YOU don't compare them that way but many analysts do. Since the Macs and the iPad are both cutting into MS market share it's very appropriate to make the comparisons.

 

[TheForce]

I agree in part-- That Windows OS has flat growth to falling off and that trend is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. Apple OSx and iOS devices are in a growth spurt unlike any we have seen in the past. But, considering that Microsoft is so globally dominate it has a comfortable cash flow picture for some time to come. Lets revisit the debate in 3-5 years. To suggest that the world will rewrite all their operational applications that run on windows overnight is just not realistic.

 

[Tyralak]

Maybe YOU don't compare them that way but many analysts do. Since the Macs and the iPad are both cutting into MS market share it's very appropriate to make the comparisons.

As I said. Junk reporting. If you're going to make legitimate comparisons, you have to use the proper variables. Otherwise, you're simply tilting the evidence to make it say what you want. If you're talking about mobile devices, there's no doubt about Apple's dominance. If you're talking about desktop/laptop PCs you're out of your mind if you think Apple is running roughshod over Microsoft. Apple is certainly the trendy/hipster thing right now in the US, but it's not the backbone of the global workforce. The vast majority of the world's PCs - both home and business - run Windows in some form or another. Apple computers are just too expensive and limited for most businesses. Windows is the global standard for PCs. iOS, OTOH, is dominant in mobile devices. You can't lump Apple's mobile and desktop businesses together and pit them against Microsoft's desktop business only and have any credibility.

 

[Tyralak]

I agree in part-- That Windows OS has flat growth to falling off and that trend is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. Apple OSx and iOS devices are in a growth spurt unlike any we have seen in the past. But, considering that Microsoft is so globally dominate it has a comfortable cash flow picture for some time to come. Lets revisit the debate in 3-5 years. To suggest that the world will rewrite all their operational applications that run on windows overnight is just not realistic.

Not only this, but Apple is a closed standard. OSX only runs on Apple devices. (officially supported) By definition limiting it's scope of global adoption. Windows runs on hardware from a plethora of manufacturers. The average cost of an Apple computer is much higher than a comparable Windows machine. This is fine for the home user who buys one computer and keeps it for several years, especially if they're buying it for the name, but it doesn't make good business sense for companies.
Here's an example:

 

[mperdue]

I'm sure that there will be a huge sigh of relief coming from some offices in Redmond, WA when they read that Tyralak says all these comparisons are just "junk reporting." Of course someone there will then have to explain why they spent so much time and money developing Windows 8 to reclaim sales lost to a product that doesn't even compete with them.

 

[mike123abc]

Not only this, but Apple is a closed standard. OSX only runs on Apple devices. (officially supported) By definition limiting it's scope of global adoption. Windows runs on hardware from a plethora of manufacturers. The average cost of an Apple computer is much higher than a comparable Windows machine. This is fine for the home user who buys one computer and keeps it for several years, especially if they're buying it for the name, but it doesn't make good business sense for companies.

But, if the desktop demand dwindles down to near nothing, having cheap hardware does not do any good. I do not expect Apple's desktop business to grow, in fact I think it will also shrink. The battle today is in the tablet arena, followed by the laptop arena.

 

[Tyralak]

I'm sure that there will be a huge sigh of relief coming from some offices in Redmond, WA when they read that Tyralak says all these comparisons are just "junk reporting." Of course someone there will then have to explain why they spent so much time and money developing Windows 8 to reclaim sales lost to a product that doesn't even compete with them.

Impressive. You managed to cram a strawman argument, and a red herring in a couple of sentances without addressing any of my points. Since you don't have evidence to refute them, concession accepted.
I will, however refute your arguments. Companies don't base business plans on a reporter's article. Your statement implies that they don't have any clue about their business and their only insight comes from the writings of pundits. Especially when the basis for these comparisons are flawed. They know the facts of their business. Let's cover your next point. That the development of windows 8 is a response to lost sales. It might surprise you to find out that Microsoft has always had a fairly consistent upgrade schedule for windows. They develop new software to take advantage of new technologies and changing customer needs. Saying Microsoft only developed a new version of Windows because Apple is taking all their business really isn't being in touch with reality.

 

[John Kotches]

There has always been an "Apple Tax" -- which is fine. But the comparison should just be on the systems hardware vs. the systems hardware. The choice of peripherals should be excluded -- especially when the monitor pricing is skewed dramatically with Apple vs truly Brand X in said comparison.

Apple Monitors are exceptionally pricey and there are no more 24" monitors for sale as new at this time, only 27" which skews it yet again.


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mperdue]

Sorry, Tyralak but you didn't say anything that I needed to respond to. I never said Apple was running roughshod over Microsoft. I never said Apple was the backbone of global computing. I just said that Microsoft sales are slowing while Apple sales are picking up. It's not my fault that a simple statement like that gets your panties in a bunch.

 

[TheForce]

But, if the desktop demand dwindles down to near nothing, having cheap hardware does not do any good. I do not expect Apple's desktop business to grow, in fact I think it will also shrink. The battle today is in the tablet arena, followed by the laptop arena.

This is exactly right! My wife travels all over visiting many large companies and the new game plan is companies are moving toward ipads for data access and simple data entry. Then those that need workstations, will be using the desktops, both PC and Mac depending on the application. The main thing is the huge reduction of those mini desktops running windows for every employee is going to disappear. Even Dell, the largest supplier of enterprise desktops is talking about this in their last report.

Now, when it comes to workstations, you can't make a comparison like that Tyralak. My 3D editing computer here has a 3D graphics card that costs more than your entire ad for the PC. Workstations are so custom it all depends on the needs. When I walk into my broker, his system has 6 24" monitors. I think the $800 PC will be easily replaced with the ipad by everyone. It will be awhile before people like me can do that for 3D editing.

 

[avg1joe]

Aren't most handheld devices being sold, android devices? I don't think it is because android is so much better than ios, just that those devices are cheaper and work on a wider variety of hardware. The handheld touchscreen devices in business settings in the real world that I have seen have all been windows based netbooks (or whatever you call something smaller than a netbook). ...sorry that's not true. I have seen exactly one device that may have been an ipad at Eastern Mountain Sports. If Microsoft can produce a relatively cheap oem tablet os that is more stable than android then they should continue to dominate the business handheld market.

 

[meStevo]

lol, how many decades has Windows been dying now?

Both Samsung and Apple wounded by the verdict in Korea, both paying some $$ and both with a number of devices banned.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/samsung-apple-both-come-away-losers-in-south-korean-patent-trial/

 

[John Kotches]

This is exactly right! My wife travels all over visiting many large companies and the new game plan is companies are moving toward ipads for data access and simple data entry.

I apologize for taking the rest of your post out of context, but this needs to be addressed.


The screen is too small so this would be an ergonomic disaster using existing tablets with the 10 screens. They simply don't cut it for all day work.

Maybe IOS or Android on a bigger screen, say 15 or 17 inches.




Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

 

[John Kotches]

avg1:

The majority of the smart phone sells are Android, with Samsung the biggest manufacturer. Apple and Samsung are neck and neck in handset sales the last i looked.

In tablet sales Apple dominates.

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TheForce]

The screen is too small so this would be an ergonomic disaster using existing tablets with the 10 screens. They simply don't cut it for all day work.

Maybe IOS or Android on a bigger screen, say 15 or 17 inches.

It really depends on the job you're doing. 5 years ago while in the hospital, my nurses would keep my records updated on a small networked computer in my room where they would enter my medications for records and billing, they would enter other vitals, read doctor's notes and all the stuff they used to do on the clip board a few years before. That screen was no bigger than my Dell 10" laptop which for years I carried with me on trips. There is no reason why these systems couldn't be replaced by an ipad and the user wouldn't know the difference. In January CES I made my first extended stay away from home in more than 2 decades without a laptop. I did quite fine with the ipad including the excellent ipad apps offered by TD Ameritrade to do my daily portfolio management.

From what I'm hearing its not the users who are rejecting the move from an antiquated desktop or old laptop to the ipad for their daily data entries and lookups as well as business e-mails and letter writing, it's the guys in your profession who are afraid they will have to learn yet another programming language to keep their job in the support section. Now that I think of it, every one who rejects this works in IT tech support.

 

[John Kotches]

Don:

Don't paint people with a broad brush. I'm not in desktop support. Desktops are a tool I use to do my job, nothing more nothing less .

I used my tablet to do maintenance last night, but the screen is too small for extended computing as a desktop.

With a larger screen I have no problem with this type of transformation.

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TheForce]

Actually, I painted the future with two brushes. One where most people would be adequately served with an ipad for what they do in their job and the other, people like us when we use work stations. Here, I felt the PC had a continued future although I also believe depending on the industry, that a Mac would also do. I even know some 3D video editors who use a Mac with bootcamp/windows7/Vegas Pro for 3D editing. While Apple makes a video editor for the ipad, it is just a toy. Not everyone has to have a large monitor screen and/or a PC to do their job.

 

[John Kotches]

Don:

I don't now if you noticed, but my issue isn't with iOS or Android for that matter replacing PCs for many users it's with the screen size. It is too small for most people to achieve a decent level of productivity. For users who don't spend large chunks of time in front of a screen, or where there jobs require limited functions it will work. For others it will be a hindrance.

Couple either of these with a larger screen and I think it could work very well for a decent sized chunk of the user base.




Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I don't know, while the screen on my MBA is bigger than the iPad, it is in no way huge. And I spend probably half the day using it as my primary work tool. Yes, the other half of the day (actually probably 1/3 of the day) I do take advantage of a 27" display, but I don't really need to.

I think many people can function - and function well - with an iPad. Particularly many low-end users. During the day, my iPad is a supplement, and only used in meetings or in class as a way to take notes or find information. But I understand both sides of the argument.

 

[TheForce]

My wife's job at the office will never be converted to ipad as she has to do multiple complex spreadsheet displays simultaneously. She has twin screen workstation and wishes she had 4 screens. In the field, however, she has a company laptop with one of those security dongles with the rotating key. (Required by Federal Banking regulations) but if that security issue could be eliminated, I'm sure her field needs could easily be met by an ipad. ipads already have presentation apps and a way to connect to a conference room or theater video projector. Some of her counterparts are already using ipads in this capacity. I have one of the ipad to VGA connector adapters here and it is actually easier to use than the laptop switch to external VGA. So, if necessary, ipad to larger screen area is not impossible, just not that well known. There is also an hdmi video and audio export adapter than can be used if the presentation has the hdmi input and requires audio.

The real limitation for the ipad right now is the applications for spreadsheets. I've looked at all of them in the app store and they all suck. What we really need is for Microsoft to create a powerful office set to run on the ipad for word, excel and powerpoint. That would be a big accomplishment.