ASC1 and new 36 inch Venture ball

[dl76]

Hey guys got a problem here. Have about 120 foot run of 16/4 wire in conduit ran to ASC1 to a brand new 36inch Venture ball and screw Actuator. I can set a satellite such as 103 west and then i can run 20 clicks east or west then run back to 103 and its always off by 5 to 10 clicks. Now when i open this Actuator up the day i received ,i did notice i could hear what sounded like a lose ball bearing rolling around inside of the tube. Anyone one have and idea what might be wrong?

Also another question. The Actuator actually only extends out to about 17.5 inches when fully retracted. Does that sound right to you guys? I thought it should be longer than that.

Also need to mention i have two ASC1. I tried both. One was brand new in the box i havent even used yet. They both do the same. Always off 5 to 10 clicks.

Thanks for any help.

 

[FTA4PA]

Hey guys got a problem here. Have about 120 foot run of 16/4 wire in conduit ran to ASC1 to a brand new 36inch Venture ball and screw Actuator. I can set a satellite such as 103 west and then i can run 20 clicks east or west then run back to 103 and its always off by 5 to 10 clicks. Now when i open this Actuator up the day i received ,i did notice i could hear what sounded like a lose ball bearing rolling around inside of the tube. Anyone one have and idea what might be wrong?

Also another question. The Actuator actually only extends out to about 17.5 inches when fully retracted. Does that sound right to you guys? I thought it should be longer than that.

Also need to mention i have two ASC1. I tried both. One was brand new in the box i havent even used yet. They both do the same. Always off 5 to 10 clicks.

Thanks for any help.

Sounds like you are losing counts from the actuator to the ASC1. I've never had a Venture actuator myself but they are supposed to be quality units. New out of the box, I don't think it is a good sign to be hearing something rattling around inside it. Unless you can sort this out I would seriously consider exercising your return or warranty options with this actuator.

 

[Houston Rockets]

That is like a common problem with them I see a few people having that problem including myself.

 

[dl76]

That is like a common problem with them I see a few people having that problem including myself.

Same actuator as mine the 36 inch ball and screw? Your having problems with it getting off count?

 

[Comptech]

I have always had this problem, not a major deal always close enough to view at a low signal. Have changed wiring types for the sensor and none are bundled with my motor cables. Brian is going to chime in, but wait until it loses it's mind one day. Mine has 3 times in the last 6 years.

 

[arlo]

Waiting for Brian also. See my other recent post. How much backlash is in the actuator shaft? Of course that requires popping the motor from the actuator tube and manually turning it. You should get 0 'slop' when extending/retracting it. As far as a loose ball. Haven't had one apart to know what's up inside.
For the positional thing. Have you tweaked in the limit switches?
It's me. But I set my lower limit so the actuator sticks out around an inch from the tube. This gives maybe 10 turns out on the motor end. Then it mounts to the dish so the dish is extended 2 inches from the mechanical lower limit.
The motor will never stall out that way.
Contact Venture. Just exchange it. Ask if they can also check the encoder for accuracy.
All I can say is once you convert to hall or optical for an encoder. Life is much better. Mr. Schmitt and his trigger thing.

 

[Titanium]

I am not aware of any history of issues with Venture brand actuators experiencing lost counts more than any other brand. But of couse, I have a limited experience with only 35+ years in the satellite industry...

Not anything to add to this discussion that hasn't been discussed in past threads. Common mode from motor noise is likekly masking or deforming the pulse counts. Scoping the distribution wires while the motor is running would quickly identify the cause. Probably you will observe a high noise floor with low amplitude reed switch pulse cycles, voltage spikes not associated with the reed switch cycles, or ragged (stutter) edges on the leading and/ falling edges of the swich cycles.

150' of 16g 4 conductor? Please provide a photo or link to the wire. 16g is mighty thin gauge to run the motor. A stressed motor will often produce more noise than one that has adequate power or running or without load. I assume that the S1/S2 sensor wires are within the same bundle as the M1/M2 motor wires?

Usual questions:
1. Are the S1/S2 wires shielded from the motor M1/M2 wires?
2. Is the S1/S2 shield ground only connected at the controller and open at the actuator?
3. Have you tried a capacitor across the motor terminals?
4. Wrapping the S1/S2 wires around a torroid core (or tried clip on ferrites)?
5. Dish ground bonded to structure ground?

 

[Houston Rockets]

The problem seems to be when you extend your actuator either close or to the limit either east or west, then you when come back to a satellite you are off either a few degree's west or east off. I stop even worrying about it just made the adjustment, for what I can figure it is either has to be how long your wiring is, or noise that is throwing it off. Just a pain in the neck

 

[FTA4PA]

Everyone should keep in mind the most important issue here IMHO is that the OP stated that when they received the actuator they coud hear something loose rattling around inside it.

My original recommendation to return it or get warranty service before the time to do it runs out stands. Just saying...

 

[mr_rye89]

I’d hate to get a new one and the counts be off. Mine doesn’t hold a count but it has 3 magnets and a reed switch, “good enough” for analog I guess. It’s a big beefy actuator and works well otherwise

 

[Comptech]

I think mine is just a need more magnet scenario. Not bashing the mover at all. As I said, it always lands on the sat I want, but always have to bump it one way or another to peak it even if I just saved the spot a few minutes earliar. My only problem with the ASC1 is every once in a great while, could be tomorrow or a year from now I will go to move the dish to the next satellite, and it will take off and hit the mechanical stops. Not that big of a deal, but have to align the sats again in the box. I run it as a stand alone, no receiver control, Cat 6 with one pair for the sensor and another pair grounded at the ASC1 end only. Motor wires are 14 gauge lamp cord not bundled with the sensor wires. ASC1 is on a apc backup and it just looses it's mind once in awhile. Anyway, still a great mover.

 

[N6BY]

I'll second FTA4PA's suggestion of getting the actuator checked out, especially if there is something loose inside.

A couple of other things:
1) It is critically important to use shielded sensor wire.
2) My Birdview motor has 'slop'. Yours may too. The optimum position for any given satellite depends on whether I am moving my dish east or west. However, over time the optimum position does not move so I am not losing counts.

Brett

 

[dl76]

Problem solved.

Got out the old VBOX 7 and not a single loss count when moving between satellites. The length of the wire is 120 feet not 150, it is 16 awg landscape lighting wire. With my old 24 inch Venture Actuator that died on me i did not have this problem with The ASC1. It just sucks not being able to use the ASC1, rather use it. I have two of them ,bought two so I would have a back up in case lighting hit one. I think its just new Actuator and needs to be broke in. I will try the ASC1 in 3 or 4 months again and see if it still loses counts. Thanks guys for all your help.

 

[Titanium]

Sorry, misunderstood the reason for this thread. Thought you were requesting advice to resolve a problem.

Address the cause - unshielded S1/S2 wire run with the M1/M2 motor wire.

 

[dl76]

Sorry, misunderstood the reason for this thread. Thought you were requesting advice to resolve a problem.

Address the cause - unshielded S1/S2 wire run with the M1/M2 motor wire.

So your saying my wire needs to be shielded wire ran from ASC1 to motor?

 

[Titanium]

Yes, sensor wires should be shielded. Motor generated noise will common mode transfer into the sensor wires if run in close proximity without properly grounded shield.

Also, shielded wires are also recommended for the servo circuit wires on systems with polarity control motors.

 

[dl76]

Yes. Motor generated noise will common mode transfer into the sensor wires if run in close proximity without properly grounded shield.

Also, shielded wires are also recommended for the servo circuit wires on systems with polarity control motors.

Thank you. Sounds like a fall project. To hot and humid in south east right now. Good thing is i ran 2 strings in conduit pipe will be an easy pull. Sorry if i offended you. I did not think that would make a difference with shielded wire. Old actuator worked fine. Learn something new every day. Will keep y'all updated when i get new wire installed. Thank you again.

 

[Titanium]

Possible that the old motor had less RF noise feeding back on the M1/M2 wires. This could be related to the motor's current draw, internal capacitor, or???

Wasn't offended, but I like to think that we all participate in discussions to answer questions and solve problems...

 

[Houston Rockets]

Everyone should keep in mind the most important issue here IMHO is that the OP stated that when they received the actuator they coud hear something loose rattling around inside it.

My original recommendation to return it or get warranty service before the time to do it runs out stands. Just saying...

OK here is the problem with your answer, I have brand new one I have replace the wire going from the receiver to the actuator I have tried using a different IRD, and this is the second actuator that is doing the same thing. I am not the only one with this problem. Everyone that is having the same problem it just couldn't be the actuator.

 

[AZ.]

That is a long distance for 16 gauge wire at only 36 volts.