ATSC 3.0 Discussion

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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Look at Pluto free streaming service with ads and some stations are uncut and uncensored.

I would not be surprised this would be beginning dawn of ad supported R-rated diginet networks regardless of the FCC likes it or not.

FCC needs to grow up accept the reality in Corona virus and 2nd great Depression where are lots of people can't afford pay TV streaming services or pay cable and satellite services.

Also FCC needs to stop relying on PTC's false information and reporting and be more open minded.

The people are tired of seeing high quality movies or R-rated TV shows are being chopped up and censored. :(

This will be free to air OTA Pluto TV versions!:)

No pay TV services will survive on FTA OTA world.:rolleyes:

This is a brave new world my friends!:hatsoff
Today it is streaming. Back in the 1930s, the movie theaters were popular.
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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There metric is not how many viewers they have, but rather their total income. If TV stations really cared more about viewers, they would not be charging exorbitant retransmission fees.


You forgot to mention horrific graphic violence! It apparently sells, or they would not produce such violence AND filth.
TV Stations are being squeezed financially. It is terribly expensive for them to operate. They are not getting the ad revenue they used to get. So, they have to make it up somewhere. Back in the day when there were no fees carrying TV stations, there wasn't the issue as station could make it on ad revenue. Plus there are so many other places to sell ad time. Used to be it was either newspapers Their going away), Radio (Not as popular as it once was, many have signed off, especially AMs), and TV. Now we have streaming. I think with 3.0, TV is moving in that direction. No upkeep on transmitters, towers, translators, etc.
 

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
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I hear you.
They are not getting the ad revenue they used to get. So, they have to make it up somewhere.
I'm going to date myself as well. :D Back in the day, business leaders understood they had some responsibility to serve not only their shareholders' short term gains, but also their employees and customers and even the community at large. I remember when they used to teach MBA majors how to grow the company. Nowadays, in pursuit of short term gains, our so-called CEOs will run their company into the ground (such as through crushing debt) while laughing all the way to the bank. I'm thinking of Toys R Us.
 

N5XZS

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Jan 23, 2005
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The FCC is killing the FTA OTA, preventing to compete against uncensored ad supported cable, streaming and satellite stations that's shows good R-rated movies and TV shows.

Please let our Free To Air OTA broadcasters chance to compete with uncensored stations.

The FCC is to blame for double standards by killing the Free To Air broadcasters! :rolleyes:
 

Ypsiguy

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Jul 5, 2019
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I really suspect most OTA will be pay TV when ATSC 3.0 is fully implemented. Those buggers are just NOT going to pass up the revenue stream the conditional access side of ATSC 3.0 will provide for them.
 
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Justin Hill

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Jan 6, 2016
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I really suspect most OTA will be pay TV when ATSC 3.0 is fully implemented. Those buggers are just NOT going to pass up the revenue stream the conditional access side of ATSC 3.0 will provide for them.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will go for a mix of both free and paid content.
I just hope that they stay the course with free local content from each of the 200+ U.S. broadcast markets...
 
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mwdxer1

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I think it will be a mix. After all people are used to Free OTA TV and OTA wants viewers. Charging for a service that is free today it not going to make viewers happy. If I was to guess, what is free today will continue to be ad supported Free TV, the Networks & diginets. There will be ads on the free TV side trying in intice the viewer to buy the pay service. Now, they are talking about a pay tier. Some company in ID already has that set up, like a tier of 55 paid channels of news & sports, not available with normal OTA TV. Some of that available bandwidth will go to that I am sure. The companies want to re-coup what they have to dish out upgrading to 3.0.
One thing I am wondering about with the technology will the viewer be able to DVR their shows and skip over ads? The TV stations do not like that of course, but is the viewer going to to willing to set through 10 minutes of ads during a half hour show? I think not.
 

Ypsiguy

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Jul 5, 2019
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I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will go for a mix of both free and paid content.
I just hope that they stay the course with free local content from each of the 200+ U.S. broadcast markets...
I hope you are right, but I am expecting a free watered down .1 main channel in ATSC 1.0 480i with local news and weather and then all the rest in a HEVC encoded pay tier.

Time will tell.
 
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TNGuy84

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May 27, 2018
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I think it will be a mix. After all people are used to Free OTA TV and OTA wants viewers. Charging for a service that is free today it not going to make viewers happy. If I was to guess, what is free today will continue to be ad supported Free TV, the Networks & diginets. There will be ads on the free TV side trying in intice the viewer to buy the pay service. Now, they are talking about a pay tier. Some company in ID already has that set up, like a tier of 55 paid channels of news & sports, not available with normal OTA TV. Some of that available bandwidth will go to that I am sure. The companies want to re-coup what they have to dish out upgrading to 3.0.
One thing I am wondering about with the technology will the viewer be able to DVR their shows and skip over ads? The TV stations do not like that of course, but is the viewer going to to willing to set through 10 minutes of ads during a half hour show? I think not.
I think you're right on the target. They're not likely to start charging for the diginets because they've been free for years. Yes, they'll be coming up with plans to offer MVPD services to get some revenue. Not only that, but there's talk of sharing much of their bandwidth with wireless broadband providers. If many stations go with MVPDs and wireless broadband services, then they may reduce everything else besides their .1 channels to a crappy quality. I have a local market that's not transitioning in the near future, and I receive another market that's currently in a transition. After seeing how they stack the diginets with no regards to quality for anything but their .1 and .2 networks, then they may apply the same strategy when it comes to sharing the next gen signals. If that's the case, there won't be any advantage to picture quality unless you want to watch the networks (I don't).

Channels in that second market have gone from maybe 1-2 mbps like my local market to less than 1 mbps. We're talking bitrates of maybe half that of a VideoCD in some cases. If there's any action sequences, you can just ignore them because you won't see anything until the action stops and the mass of blocks quits clogging up the screen.
 
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TheKrell

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Yes, they'll be coming up with plans to offer MVPD services to get some revenue.
I think everything interesting will go to the pay tier. We may still see some emergency broadcasting in the clear. But our OTA broadcasters have been wanting to go to PayTV for 50 years at least. Now they'll just do it.
In the U.S., the initial concept and technology for pay-per-view for broadcast television was first developed in the early 1950s, including a crude decrypting of the over-the-air television signal and a decoding box, but never caught on for use at that time. It took another four decades when cable broadcasters started using pay-per-view on a widespread basis.[16]
I am expecting a free watered down .1 main channel in ATSC 1.0 480i with local news and weather and then all the rest in a HEVC encoded pay tier.
IMHO we'll be lucky to have a watered down free main channel!
 

N5XZS

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Jan 23, 2005
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On the other hand, waterdown may back fired by down rez or bit starving the video quality would be the worst thing the TV broadcasters can do. :rolleyes:

The TV viewers will not tolerate anymore of video cramming if this crap keeps up.

Same goes for TV censorship by the FCC on the R-rated TV and movies shows, are unnecessary chopped up and ruining the TV viewing experiences on OTA FTA broadcast stations. :confused:
 

TNGuy84

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May 27, 2018
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Whatever ATSC 3.0 ultimately turns into will be consistent with the wishes of the broadcasters and not the consumers. The more I hear concerning MVPDs being allowed access and wireless broadband being allowed access, the less thrilled I am about moving to the next gen tech.

If all of the diginets were offered at a subscription fee in one package online, I'd probably be tempted to buy into it and ditch my antenna completely. However, I wouldn't pay more than $5/month for such a service.
 

TheKrell

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The TV viewers will not tolerate anymore of video cramming if this crap keeps up.
  1. They will very probably have no choice!
  2. The amount of commercials that are allowed these days makes commercial TV unwatchable IMHO. And yet, "TV viewers" tolerate it and have for years. :crying When I get stuck in a hotel room with no DVR, I am aghast. Now I take my FireTV stick. The last time I was stuck with no recourse, I had my Roku SE and the damn thing could not navigate the terms and conditions web page. :mad:
 
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mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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I think you're right on the target. They're not likely to start charging for the diginets because they've been free for years. Yes, they'll be coming up with plans to offer MVPD services to get some revenue. Not only that, but there's talk of sharing much of their bandwidth with wireless broadband providers. If many stations go with MVPDs and wireless broadband services, then they may reduce everything else besides their .1 channels to a crappy quality. I have a local market that's not transitioning in the near future, and I receive another market that's currently in a transition. After seeing how they stack the diginets with no regards to quality for anything but their .1 and .2 networks, then they may apply the same strategy when it comes to sharing the next gen signals. If that's the case, there won't be any advantage to picture quality unless you want to watch the networks (I don't).

Channels in that second market have gone from maybe 1-2 mbps like my local market to less than 1 mbps. We're talking bitrates of maybe half that of a VideoCD in some cases. If there's any action sequences, you can just ignore them because you won't see anything until the action stops and the mass of blocks quits clogging up the screen.
Of course out here on the Oregon Coast, we will not see 3.0 for at least 5 years and maybe more. The stacking starts in Portland a month from today (July 28th) according to what I have read. I have no idea what the pq will be, as so far I have only seen 1-HD and 3-SD diginets the most on a channel. One we do have 2-HD and 2-SD on one though. Starting in a month our line up is supposed to be:

2.1 KATU ABC 720p
2.2 METV 480i (Downgraded from 720p)
2.3 Comet 480i
2.4 Stadium 480i
32.1 KRCW CW 1080i

6.1 KOIN CBS 1080i
6.2 Get TV 480i
6.3 Bounce 480i
32.2 Antenna TV 480i
32.3 Court TV 480i
32.4 TDB 480i

8.1 KGW NBC 1080i
8.2 Justice 480i
8.3 Qwest 480i
49.2 Escape (Court Mystery) 480i
49.3 Grit 480i

10.1 KOPB PBS 1080i
10.2 PBS+ 1080i
10.3 PBS Kids 480i
10.4 NPR (3 Streams)

12.1 KPTV FOX 720p
12.2 Cozi 480i
12.3 Laff 480i
12.4 DABL 480i
49.1 KPDX MYTV 720p

The varying bit rate, I have no idea where they will; average out. Used to be, they used one rate, but now I guess it can vary all over the board on how much they give a certain service.

KOIN CBS waited a long time until they added any diginets, as they did not want to mess up the pq. I will admit running 15.5 mpbs gave a excellent picture. But it is a money thing now.

Portland is lacking a lot of diginets offered in other markets, like Retro, Movies, Start, LX, Buzzr, Decades, to name a few. I have been hoping with the extra bandwidth Portland will carry more.

KPDX MYTV 49 and KRCW CW 32 are the ones used for 3.0, so that is why the stacking. For us out here that are starved for diginets, getting Antenna TV and Cozi are especially nice.
But I am hoping more diginets will be streaming in the future.
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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Seaside Oregon
I think everything interesting will go to the pay tier. We may still see some emergency broadcasting in the clear. But our OTA broadcasters have been wanting to go to PayTV for 50 years at least. Now they'll just do it.



IMHO we'll be lucky to have a watered down free main channel!
With so much competition out there, pay TV for OTA, I doubt will catch on. People are so used to OTA being free for the last 80 years.
 

mwdxer1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 3, 2015
1,238
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Seaside Oregon
Whatever ATSC 3.0 ultimately turns into will be consistent with the wishes of the broadcasters and not the consumers. The more I hear concerning MVPDs being allowed access and wireless broadband being allowed access, the less thrilled I am about moving to the next gen tech.

If all of the diginets were offered at a subscription fee in one package online, I'd probably be tempted to buy into it and ditch my antenna completely. However, I wouldn't pay more than $5/month for such a service.
Totally agree. I would love to have a diginet line up available to us like in LA. I would gladly pay $5 a month for those streaming. There are quite a few that stream now like Buzzr, Comet, Stadium, etc.
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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Seaside Oregon
  1. They will very probably have no choice!
  2. The amount of commercials that are allowed these days makes commercial TV unwatchable IMHO. And yet, "TV viewers" tolerate it and have for years. :crying When I get stuck in a hotel room with no DVR, I am aghast. Now I take my FireTV stick. The last time I was stuck with no recourse, I had my Roku SE and the damn thing could not navigate the terms and conditions web page. :mad:
I have the Fire Stick and the Recast with two OTA tuners, and 500GB HDD. So I can easily record anything OTA and DVR it. It will be interesting to see if 3.0 will be able to DVR that. I am a bit doubtful in the present form, but there probably will be some way.
 

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