Blu-ray set-top players out-selling HD DVD

[navychop]

"Blu-ray Disc set-top players within the last 12 weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players," Read the article, it's attributed to the new $499 Sony. This is per the NPD Group. This is not some small time outfit.

And this is UNIT sales, not DOLLAR sales. And we're talking dedicated players, not PS3 or HD DVD add-ons.

Looks like Blu-ray can carry a higher price and still outsell HD DVD, now even in dedicated players.

 

[teachsac]

"Blu-ray Disc set-top players within the last 12 weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players," Read the article, it's attributed to the new $499 Sony. This is per the NPD Group. This is not some small time outfit.

And this is UNIT sales, not DOLLAR sales. And we're talking dedicated players, not PS3 or HD DVD add-ons.

Looks like Blu-ray can carry a higher price and still outsell HD DVD, now even in dedicated players.

Correct. But that report has been discussed and is based on Dollar Revenue, not number of players. 299 vs. 499

S~

 

[navychop]

Dollar revenue alone would not mean as much, and is already known, like you say. But the graph, from a link that no longer works, states "units."

I'm sure more on this will come out "soon" - one way or the other. It has some credibility because of the reports preceding it about some retailers reporting a surge in Blu-ray players, to where they were outselling HD DVD players.

 

[CochiseGuy]

"Blu-ray Disc set-top players within the last 12 weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players. Read the article, it's attributed to the new $499 Sony. This is per the NPD Group.This is not some small time outfit.

And this is UNIT sales, not DOLLAR sales. And we're talking dedicated players, not PS3 or HD DVD add-ons.

Correct - NDP is the universally accepted source for reporting hardware sales.

Correct - I do see the word "units" on the chart.

I just don't trust Sony's reporting of NDP figures.

Something fishy is going on. Both HighDefDigest.com & Video business report the story as "Sony VP Chris Fawcett said that within the last 12 weeks, Blu-ray players had pulled out ahead of HD DVD." Yet that chart (hard to read) indicates since June, so why not say it that way? Also, the HDD story says [Sony VP Chris Fawcett] "declined to declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides." Yet that chart says it pretty clearly: 55% vs. 43%.

Not disputing your post at all, of course. Just that I suspect the data in the chart is manipulated. The story says Sony cites NDP, but the chart is not from that story, and does not cite NDP. Knowing Sony, they planted the story - "within the the last 12 weeks" could mean one day, one week. And then the chart presents "selected data" - like sales only from authorized Sony B&M dealers, for example?

Interesting, and thanks. But I'll wait for independent NDP numbers reported in a trade mag.

EDIT: Besides, all a moot point anyway - how can Blu-ray possibly expect to compete with an offer like this -

Announced yesterday at CEDIA, the two companies say fans who buy both a Toshiba HD DVD player and the upcoming 'Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 1' HD DVD/DVD combo release will be offered an exclusive, limited edition Star Trek Phaser remote control that will operate Toshiba's HD DVD players.

I am so all over that remote.

 

[navychop]

I am so all over that remote.

She's called a remote???


Anyway, yeah, it doesn't smell quite right, but somewhere in there is a nugget of truth. I just hope we eventually find out what it is. I gather that BD player sales have really increased significantly, but for the spin doctors, it's never enough that it can't be embellished.

Is that chart from the first day Sony presentation? Anybody know?

That $499 price point on the new Sony BD player had to break loose some buyers, as no doubt will the new BD players announced at CEDIA- if they ever say when they'll be available.

We'll see. I'll say again- the next few months should be interesting.

 

[JoeSp]

Several retailers have also reported an increase in BD standalone sales. Let's wait until the end of Septemeber and see if the trend continues -- this might be because of the 5 free discs and that promo is not going to go on forever.

 

[navychop]

AH, yesssss- I should have thought of that. Especially since I'm likely to buy "soon" because of that very offer.

One spot I've read said they must be bought by 9/23, most say by 9/30. All say receipts/applications must be turned in by 10/31. So there will likely be a dip in high def disc/player sales in October, maybe up thru Black Friday. Does retail in general normally slow down a bit in Oct/beginning of Nov, as consumers back off in anticipation of Holiday spending?

 

[navychop]

Toshiba Shoots Back

See this article.

Not a strong response. In a back handed way, they seem to be acknowledging that BD dedicated players started outselling HD DVD dedicated players in August: "While the competition may claim leadership based on one month of data..."

 

[berck]

I still wonder if its not total players, but players sold during those time frames. Which would make more sense to me, especially after seeing the curves where Blu-ray spikes way above HD about the third week of June.

 

[navychop]

I gather they ARE talking about during that time frame. Just as weekly title sales are more important for indicating where the trend is.

BTW, I'm not so sure any more that the 5 free disc offer is making too much of a difference, since HD DVD is doing pretty much the same thing. Maybe when the offers end, sales will slow for both, proportionately. Then the holiday sales will start to kick in.

 

[John Kotches]

With Toshiba's announcement at CEDIA; their most expensive current product will be priced the same as the cheapest available Blu-ray Player.

That is quite interesting...

Price points $299 (HD-A3), $399 (HD-A30), $499 (HD-XA2 or -XA3 (I don't recall if they're replacing the XA2 with a new player)).

Contrast that with Sony's entry level player at $499.

Very interesting competitive landscape to say the least.

Cheers,

 

[JoeSp]

John, tell me, where is the average Joe going to find those Toshiba players? The won't be in Target, not in Walmart (heck Walmart is considering giving them the boot and Toshiba is offering money to keep the players in the stores--we should soon fing out how that is going to turn out) not at Blockbusters, not at BJ's, heck, most of the mainstream stores that J6P and momma are going to be shopping in for XMAS are not going to be carring HD-DVD standalones (maybe Walmart will carry their own HD-DVD player).

In Circuit City and Best Buy even though they carry the Toshiba HD-DVD players - they do not show them prominently. In three CC's they are all in the back of the HDTV sections (they should be in the front where the two BD endcaps are) and in Best Buy you have to hunt arround for the display -- if they have one.

Rumor (and this is very iffy) is that Sony is going to be offering a PS3 w/40GB drive this XMAS for $399. Now if that really happens the 'Trojan Horse" monicer might just become earned by the PS3. An announcement is expected at the TGS. This type of move by Sony would negate the prices on the Toshiba players including the $299 one. I think folks looking for great deals are going to find them this XMAS no matter which fomat they prefer.

 

[berck]

Amazon will carry them Joe. You can already pre-order. Now I know its not the brick and mortar store, but many are using Amazon for many purchases including me.

I will note that Amazon list the prices of the Toshiba units as 299 (A3), 399 (A30), 499 (A35), and 799 reduced to 577 for XA2

 

[FreddyvsJasonvsAsh]

Acording to USA Today article (money section) from 9/10/2007 HD DVD is outselling Bluray due to cheaper players. The average person wants to only spend $204 for a dvd player. It also said the bluray is NOT doing as they expected it to. It was talking about the iPhone dropping it's price as well as the PS3 due to sluggish sales

 

[teachsac]

Walmart was considering actually dropping all. They have since changed their mind and will be carrying High Def players in both formats. Whether they will carry the Toshiba or a Chinese brand will be determined. As for Best Buy/CC, HDDVD and Blu-ray are all in the same area in all of the stores around me. NO BJS but costco and sams have it.

They just discontinued the 40 gig. Why would they bring it back?

S~

 

[diogen]

...It also said the bluray is NOT doing as they expected it to.

This is primarily because their expectations were outlandish, I think. PS2's success robbed their ability to think rationally.
But it is getting better... No more "PS3 is cheap! @$600 ", "The new era starts when we say it does!", "We won!", Trojan Horse and other crap...
Having a half-cooked format with some 5 profiles and moving target what is mandatory and what optional didn't help either...

The massive PR assault to eliminate HD out of the gate failed. Now it is street-by-street, house-by-house fighting...

Diogen.

 

[navychop]

They just discontinued the 40 gig. Why would they bring it back?

S~

They discontinued the 20GB PS3. I don't think a 40GB has existed before now.

Having a half-cooked format with some 5 profiles and moving target what is mandatory and what optional didn't help either...

5? I only know of 3: profile 1.0, profile 1.1 and profile 2 (AKA -Live). And AFAIK, the dates for profile 1.1 becoming mandatory hasn't changed since it was established. Profile 2 was and still is an optional implementation.

 

[teachsac]

They discontinued the 20GB PS3. I don't think a 40GB has existed before now.

I knew that. Man, I am so burnt. I need a vacation.

S~

 

[CochiseGuy]

John, tell me, where is the average Joe going to find those Toshiba players?

What a load of FUD!

The won't be in Target,

No, since Sony paid a "staggering sum" for product placement. But, you will find the HD DVD add-on for the Xbox, and you won't find BD players from Phillips, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc. etc. - just the el cheapo, bare ones Sony basic model.

not in Walmart

Oh? You were so all over that "Wal-Mart won't carry cheap HD DVD players" story. Did you forget the Wal-Mart statement you quoted already?

We have no plans to have Venturer in our stores this holiday,” Wal-Mart merchandise spokeswoman Melissa O’Brien said. “We will continue to offer the best values on popular HD DVD and Blu-ray products from leading consumer brands like Sony, Samsung, Philips, Toshiba and RCA.”

not at Blockbusters,

Oh really? I had no idea they were such a major retailer for standalone players. It's been years since I've been in one, but last time I heard they still don't sell any players.

not at BJ's, heck, most of the mainstream stores that J6P and momma are going to be shopping in for XMAS are not going to be carring HD-DVD standalones

I'd never heard of BJ's (well, not in the retail sense ), but you don't consider Costco 'mainstream' - or do you just leave them out because they carry the Toshiba A2?

In Circuit City and Best Buy even though they carry the Toshiba HD-DVD players

Sounds like you answered your won question of "John, tell me, where is the average Joe going to find those Toshiba players?"

Rumor (and this is very iffy) is that Sony is going to be offering a PS3 w/40GB drive this XMAS for $399. Now if that really happens the 'Trojan Horse" monicer might just become earned by the PS3. An announcement is expected at the TGS. This type of move by Sony would negate the prices on the Toshiba players including the $299 one. I think folks looking for great deals are going to find them this XMAS no matter which fomat they prefer.

Great - I'm sure that $400 loss per unit will do just do wonders to their bottom line. But, thanks for the tip - I put my PS3 on eBay this morning. I've had it with all the crap. For the half dozen or so BD exclusive discs I like, it's not worth the hassle. I'm going back to HD DVD only, and take your advice -

Want your format to win -- spend your dollars where you heart lies.

So long Blur-ay for me. Adios! :

 

[diogen]

Both, Profile 1.1 and 2.0, can be split in two: players that have the required memory (256MB and 1GB, respectively) and those that can address this memory.
AVS Forum - View Single Post - Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread IV: ONLY Questions to Insiders
Whether those are called profiles, sub-profiles or anything else is semantics - favorite game of BDA.

Diogen.