C-Band questions

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Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
Well, guess what guys :)

Now I have some questions on the C-Band dish I got....I'll try to keep all my questions in this thread.

-What is the difference between a LNB and a LNBF? Is there a noticeable difference in the appearance? I want to see what the heck I have.

-What the heck is a feedhorn and what does it do?

-This one might sound stupid, but I always see C-Band higher in the sky than KU. Is there something different with C-band collecting the signal than KU?

-How much of a bugger is it to get the Anchorage stations on C-Band?

I'll be setting this on my deck or outside my garage and just testing it to see if it actually works (the person I got it from said it did). I cant pole mount it so I'll just build the dish and put the LNB on and ghetto move it :D

Sorry if these sound dumb..I know a loot about KU, but C band is really new to me :)
 
well iceberg, here is my understanding of the terms, someone please correct me if i am wrong

lnb= low noise block

lnba= low noise block amplifier - this is used with a downconverter in older systems. They lnba passes the signal to a downconverter with then passes the signal to the
reciever in a specified frequency "block"

lnbf = low noise block w/ feedhorn- this is what most ku folks call an lnb

as far as the dishes pointing higher in the sky, most ku band dishes are "offset" dishes, c band dishes are not offset (at least not that i know of).

The feed horn collects the signal and focus's it on a monopole antenna which then passes it on the lnb.

i havent tried the anchorage stations yet so i dont know bout that. btw if using a satfinder to aim your dish, make sure the satfinder is not in front of the dish, this can cause false readings.

Also remember that if you dont hook up the polarity selenoid on the feed horn to a reciever you will only get the polarity that the selenoid was previously set at.
 
I noticed there was a LNB and a feedhorn (the feedhorn looks like 4 rings if I remember right) so it might be all in one....

The Anchorage stuff will be down the line. Much easier to get analog stuff in. I'll probably just set it for 91,93 or 95 (as 93 is my true south and these 3 are virtually at the same elevation)
 
drhydro said:
as far as the dishes pointing higher in the sky, most ku band dishes are "offset" dishes, c band dishes are not offset (at least not that i know of).

so if the elevation is suppose to be 38, it actually is 38 degrees from ground level, and not 38 but it looks like its 20?
 
I know that you know all about this site Iceberg but it may help the others who will be following your progress, once you master C-band you will be even more INVALUABLE here let me know if you need any help with the lugging of that beast about and the set up.......

http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp2.html#anchor713284

This is going to be a VERY interesting project!
 
Iceberg said:
so if the elevation is suppose to be 38, it actually is 38 degrees from ground level, and not 38 but it looks like its 20?

correct. My bud points at the sky to hit Anik f1 (107) whereas my wingard points at my roof to hit G10 (123)

here are some links i have found that might help

A very good FAQ on BUDS
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/Satellite-TV/TVRO/part1/

Chapperal Feedhorn Installation / setup guide
http://www.chaparral.net/ts_feeds.html

if ya dont have a working analog reciever drop me a line, i have a spare drake 1724 sitting around that i was given.
 
Thanks for the links DrHydro!

I've got 5 analog receivers now
-Uniden Supra (bad hum on audio)
-Uniden 4200 (works good..using it for analog KU)
-Toshiba TRX-1420 (pride and joy..use it for analog KU)
-Uniden 1000 (dont know if it works, its C-Band only)

plus the one I got with the dish :)
 
Iceberg said:
I noticed there was a LNB and a feedhorn (the feedhorn looks like 4 rings if I remember right) so it might be all in one....

the LNB attaches to the feedhorn, if you are using a LNBA both the LNBA and the downconverter are attached to the feedhorn.
 
PSB said:
I know that you know all about this site Iceberg but it may help the others who will be following your progress, once you master C-band you will be even more INVALUABLE here let me know if you need any help with the lugging of that beast about and the set up.......

http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp2.html#anchor713284

This is going to be a VERY interesting project!

I never looked at that site until now..sweet mother of god that has some info :)

Yeah Pete, this is going to be one heckuva project
 
drhydro said:
the LNB attaches to the feedhorn, if you are using a LNBA both the LNBA and the downconverter are attached to the feedhorn.

where the heck is a digital camera when you need one :D
 
my downconverter is a blue box that says right on the label "california systems downconverter". the coax feed comes out of that, down thru the inside of one of the feedhorn legs, then is cabled to my reciever.
 
Iceberg said:
Thanks for the links DrHydro!

I've got 5 analog receivers now
-Uniden Supra (bad hum on audio)
-Uniden 4200 (works good..using it for analog KU)
-Toshiba TRX-1420 (pride and joy..use it for analog KU)
-Uniden 1000 (dont know if it works, its C-Band only)

plus the one I got with the dish :)

LOL i should have known you would have at least one analog reciever.....
 
Iceberg,

if you have an LNB, it will be a module that's detachable from the feedhorn. With an LNBF, it's all in one. The feedhorn itself is a cylindrical tube, which creates a resonant cavity for the 4 GHz microwave signals. The actual "antenna" is a small stub monopole, located at the appropriate point inside the resonant cavity. Surrounding the feedhorn are the scalar rings, that control sidelobe influence. The scalar rings usually mount to the support legs, and the feed slides into the rings at the proper focal depth and is clamped with a screw.

> This one might sound stupid, but I always see C-Band higher in the sky than KU. Is there something different with C-band collecting the signal than KU? <

I think this has already been answered, but the main difference is that C-band dishes are "prime focus". I.e., the feed is located right in the center of the dish at the focal point. Primarily, this is because the portion of the dish occluded by the feed is very small with respect to the full dish surface area. C-band dishes point directly at the satellite you're receiving.

With Ku, dishes can be much smaller, and they went with offset dishes, which move the feed off to the bottom, so that the feed doesn't block the dish at all. Ku dishes are actually slices out of a full parabolic dish. Ku dishes point below the satellite you're receiving. The other advantage this provides is that the dish surfac is then more vertical, so a lot less snow tends to build up than with a C-band dish, especially towards the center of the arc, where the elevation is highest.

> How much of a bugger is it to get the Anchorage stations on C-Band? <

It depends on your location (obviously) and the size of the dish. If you're talking about the DVB group on AMC7 (at 137W), I'd say you have a decent chance, since you're farther West than I am, and I was able to pull the analog Denver stations in, back when I had a 7' mesh dish on my balcony. If you mean AMC8, I'm not so sure. I was never able to get that one, back when the Satcom-C bird was located there, but the power is a lot higher now with the replacement birds.

> I'll be setting this on my deck or outside my garage and just testing it to see if it actually works (the person I got it from said it did). I cant pole mount it so I'll just build the dish and put the LNB on and ghetto move it <

A polar mount would make things a whole lot easier, especially if you plan on ever viewing more than one bird. Even an az/el mount would be handy. If you're planning on just a "prop and aim" configuration (i.e., like one of the old "patio mounts"), I think you'll want to pick a bird and leave it there. Kind of a shame not to take advantage of everything that's available on C-band though.

> Sorry if these sound dumb..I know a loot about KU, <

That's true. You've been a "cash" of information on the subject. :D

> but C band is really new to me <

Not a problem. I'm sure lots of folks will be happy to chip in with info.

drhydro warned:
> remember that if you dont hook up the polarity selenoid on the feed horn to a reciever you will only get the polarity that the selenoid was previously set at. <

This is true if you have a polarotor on your feedhorn (and separate LNB). But depending on your feed configuration, you might have dual-porting (two fixed LNBs), or if it's an LNBF you could have dual V/H outputs, or the standard 13/18V polarity control that you're used to with Ku.

- Tim
 
P.S. Let us know what size dish you've got, if it's solid or mesh, and what the feed configuration looks like. You may have to pull off a feed cover to be able to see everything.

- Tim
 
VideoGrabber said:
Iceberg,

if you have an LNB, it will be a module that's detachable from the feedhorn. With an LNBF, it's all in one. The feedhorn itself is a cylindrical tube, which creates a resonant cavity for the 4 GHz microwave signals. The actual "antenna" is a small stub monopole, located at the appropriate point inside the resonant cavity. Surrounding the feedhorn are the scalar rings, that control sidelobe influence. The scalar rings usually mount to the support legs, and the feed slides into the rings at the proper focal depth and is clamped with a screw.
I'll have to look and report back on that....it was late when I got home
> This one might sound stupid, but I always see C-Band higher in the sky than KU. Is there something different with C-band collecting the signal than KU? <

I think this has already been answered, but the main difference is that C-band dishes are "prime focus". I.e., the feed is located right in the center of the dish at the focal point. Primarily, this is because the portion of the dish occluded by the feed is very small with respect to the full dish surface area. C-band dishes point directly at the satellite you're receiving.

With Ku, dishes can be much smaller, and they went with offset dishes, which move the feed off to the bottom, so that the feed doesn't block the dish at all. Ku dishes are actually slices out of a full parabolic dish. Ku dishes point below the satellite you're receiving. The other advantage this provides is that the dish surfac is then more vertical, so a lot less snow tends to build up than with a C-band dish, especially towards the center of the arc, where the elevation is highest.

cool. I tried to have a KU band on my deck and got G3 (which is one off from my true south) I had a 45 quality on digital. (I got a 90 once I mounted it up about 4 feet on my deck) So those at the top (G11, G3, T6, T5) I should be able to get it to work
> How much of a bugger is it to get the Anchorage stations on C-Band? <

It depends on your location (obviously) and the size of the dish. If you're talking about the DVB group on AMC7 (at 137W), I'd say you have a decent chance, since you're farther West than I am, and I was able to pull the analog Denver stations in, back when I had a 7' mesh dish on my balcony. If you mean AMC8, I'm not so sure. I was never able to get that one, back when the Satcom-C bird was located there, but the power is a lot higher now with the replacement birds.
yep. I'm in MN (outside of Mpls). The dish is a 10' so it's very possible
> I'll be setting this on my deck or outside my garage and just testing it to see if it actually works (the person I got it from said it did). I cant pole mount it so I'll just build the dish and put the LNB on and ghetto move it <

A polar mount would make things a whole lot easier, especially if you plan on ever viewing more than one bird. Even an az/el mount would be handy. If you're planning on just a "prop and aim" configuration (i.e., like one of the old "patio mounts"), I think you'll want to pick a bird and leave it there. Kind of a shame not to take advantage of everything that's available on C-band though.
Its temporary. I live in a townhouse and the HOA wont let me install a 10' in the ground (stupid HOA), but I'll be moving soon (Jan or Feb) and I've been scoping out houses with large yards :D I'll just probably have it on one of the sat's that are truly south and just leave it...maybe try to rig something so it can be angled.
> Sorry if these sound dumb..I know a loot about KU, <

That's true. You've been a "cash" of information on the subject. :D

> but C band is really new to me <

Not a problem. I'm sure lots of folks will be happy to chip in with info.
Thanks. Anyone with C-band (currently or past) please chip in
drhydro warned:
> remember that if you dont hook up the polarity selenoid on the feed horn to a reciever you will only get the polarity that the selenoid was previously set at. <

This is true if you have a polarotor on your feedhorn (and separate LNB). But depending on your feed configuration, you might have dual-porting (two fixed LNBs), or if it's an LNBF you could have dual V/H outputs, or the standard 13/18V polarity control that you're used to with Ku.

- Tim
I think there is just one output on the C side
 
Videograbber,
Thanks for clarifying my warning about polarity , I had forgotten just how many different ways that BUD feedhorns can be set up.
 
Iceberg said:
How much of a bugger is it to get the Anchorage stations on C-Band?

All you have to do is point that baby at AMC 7 (136), any odd (horizontial) transponder and scan, or you can do a manual at FR 3880, SR 25218, also make sure you have your LNB set in 5150 for C Band. They should lock on with no problem. Remember, they are 3 hours behind you. Are you going to use a receiver as a slave? If so get with me, there are a few fine points you need to know.
 
Jim
What kind of quality do you get on those with your 3618?

Temporarily, I will probably just hook a C-band up to it and maybe slave a DVB to it once it is working. Once I get it hooked up and operational, I'll hit ya up :)
 
All C-Band dishes are NOT Prime Focus, although most are. Where I work, all of the newer C-Band dishes we have are not prime focus, and they have elevation markings on the back next to the elevation adjustments just like KU Band. Basically, if the feedhorn (be it seperate or part of the lnb) is exactly perpendicular to and in the center of the dish, it is prime focus. If below the centerline it is not (prime focus).
 
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