Cord Cutting Spikes

Bruce

Bruce

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It looks like for those leaving Traditional Live TV, the losses are picking up, now over 3.2 million over the last 2 quarters and that does not include losses at DirecTV which are estimated the last two quarters at over a million ( they lost a million in the same two quarters last year) or a few other companies like Cox.

Live TV streamers also lost subs, Sling ( -228,000 subs), Fubo (-75,000 Subs), YTTV ( -200,000 estimated) and Hulu Live (-200,000 subs).

The only Pay TV that gained were the on demand streaming services, which is obviously where we are heading to as far as TV Programming in the future

Again I give Traditional Live TV services 5-7 years before they are unprofitable and start shutting down.



 
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MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

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I say that by the end of this decade you will have to stream your tv or their won't be any tv. IF they get broadband through out the country with the infrastructure Bill passed and especially in the rural areas , there will be less reason for anyone to have cable or satellite. The downside to cable and satellite is all the extra FEES for dvr and for additional receivers. This is the attraction to streaming. No extra fees. Add the app on any roku or fire tv or stick and you can watch it any room in the house as long as you have wifi.

Now DISH could convert their service into a more streaming channels like Sling tv but also provide satellite locals or streaming locals. Then there would be less reason for all the satellites except for sat locals. But sooner or later they could maybe just stream the locals too. It might mean working new deals with all the cities again to stream the networks instead of by satellite. But they need to find a way to get around the restriction on how many streams at a time for your programming. Like Sling tv has the blue pack with 3 streams and the orange pack with ESPN channels has only 1 stream at a time.

Maybe they could combine the Sling tv cloud feature and their channels with the Hopper plus . With the hopper plus you can add any app , even Sling tv. Then you would get the dvr hard drive and the cloud feature dvr too. This would also up-convert the hd to 4k with the Hopper plus since most of Sling tv channels are 720p.
 
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edisonprime

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I say that by the end of this decade you will have to stream your tv or their won't be any tv. IF they get broadband through out the country with the infrastructure Bill passed and especially in the rural areas , there will be less reason for anyone to have cable or satellite. The downside to cable and satellite is all the extra FEES for dvr and for additional receivers. This is the attraction to streaming. No extra fees. Add the app on any roku or fire tv or stick and you can watch it any room in the house as long as you have wifi.

Now DISH could convert their service into a more streaming channels like Sling tv but also provide satellite locals or streaming locals. Then there would be less reason for all the satellites except for sat locals. But sooner or later they could maybe just stream the locals too. It might mean working new deals with all the cities again to stream the networks instead of by satellite. But they need to find a way to get around the restriction on how many streams at a time for your programming. Like Sling tv has the blue pack with 3 streams and the orange pack with ESPN channels has only 1 stream at a time.

Maybe they could combine the Sling tv cloud feature and their channels with the Hopper plus . With the hopper plus you can add any app , even Sling tv. Then you would get the dvr hard drive and the cloud feature dvr too. This would also up-convert the hd to 4k with the Hopper plus since most of Sling tv channels are 720p.
Although I prefer physical media, sadly I think that's on the way out too.
 
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Bruce

Bruce

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I say that by the end of this decade you will have to stream your tv or their won't be any tv. IF they get broadband through out the country with the infrastructure Bill passed and especially in the rural areas , there will be less reason for anyone to have cable or satellite.
at a minimum, they will have StarLink available to them.
The downside to cable and satellite is all the extra FEES for dvr and for additional receivers. This is the attraction to streaming. No extra fees. Add the app on any roku or fire tv or stick and you can watch it any room in the house as long as you have wifi.
Which keeps me away from Traditional Services, not just the fees you brought up, but also Broadcast Channels Fees, RSN ( sports) Fees, the Fees just or being Customer, both Hulu Live and YTTV do not even charge for the unlimited DVR.
Now DISH could convert their service into a more streaming channels like Sling tv but also provide satellite locals or streaming locals. Then there would be less reason for all the satellites except for sat locals. But sooner or later they could maybe just stream the locals too. It might mean working new deals with all the cities again to stream the networks instead of by satellite.
If the streaming services can offer locals, there is just no reason why Dish cannot.
But they need to find a way to get around the restriction on how many streams at a time for your programming. Like Sling tv has the blue pack with 3 streams and the orange pack with ESPN channels has only 1 stream at a time.
YTTV is 3 streams also.
Maybe they could combine the Sling tv cloud feature and their channels with the Hopper plus . With the hopper plus you can add any app , even Sling tv. Then you would get the dvr hard drive and the cloud feature dvr too. This would also up-convert the hd to 4k with the Hopper plus since most of Sling tv channels are 720p.
Really, YTTV is 1080P, I know up converated from 1080i, but it really looks good.
 
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NashGuy

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Again I give Traditional Live TV services 5-7 years before they are unprofitable and start shutting down.
I think maybe what will happen is that traditional live pay TV ("cable TV") simply restructures and morphs into the SVOD system.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say that Disney, Warner Bros. Discovery, NBCUniversal, Paramount, Fox, and AMC Networks all remain as-is in terms of the channels and SVODs they own. (They won't, there will be consolidations and deaths, but for simplicity's sake, let's just use the chess board as it currently exists.)

In time, I could see MVPDs restructuring their channel packages so that instead of choosing between small, medium and large bundles that commingle channels from multiple media groups, they'll just sell each media group's own bundle of channels plus their related SVOD. Consumers could buy any of these Packs alone or combined with others. Each Pack would have a different price. So the menu would look like:

Disney Pack:
linear channels -- ABC (local), ESPN, ESPN 2, SEC Network, ACC Network, FX, FXX, FXM, Disney Channel, Disney XD, Disney Jr., Freeform, Nat Geo, Nat Geo Wild, etc.
SVODs -- Disney+, Hulu, ESPN+ (i.e. the full Disney Bundle)

Paramount Pack:
linear channels -- CBS (local), Paramount Network, CBS News, CBS Sports Network, Nickelodeon, Nick Jr., TeenNick, MTV, VH1, CMT, BET, Comedy Central, TV Land, Smithsonian Channel, Logo, Flix
SVOD -- Paramount+

NBCUniversal Pack:
linear channels -- NBC (local), MSNBC, CNBC, USA, Bravo, SyFy, E!, Oxygen, Universal Kids, Cozi TV, NBC News Now, Circle
SVOD -- Peacock

Warner Bros. Discovery Pack:
linear channels -- HBO, CNN, TBS, TNT, TruTV, Cartoon Network, OWN, Discovery, HGTV, Food, TLC, Magnolia, Trvl, ID, Animal Planet, Science, Motor Trend, etc.
SVOD -- HBO Max

AMC Pack:
linear channels -- AMC, IFC, BBC America, Sundance TV, WeTV
SVOD -- AMC+

Sports Pack:
linear channels -- local RSN(s), NFL Network, NBA Network, MLB Network, NHL Network, Tennis Channel, Stadium, Stadium College Sports, Pac-12 Network (maybe, and only in that region)
SVOD -- RSN DTC app

Variety Pack (i.e. the leftovers):
linear channels -- Fox (local), Fox News, Fox Business, Fox Weather, FS1, FS2, Big Ten Network, CW, NewsNation, Hallmark Channel, Hallmark Movies & Mysteries, Hallmark Drama, A&E, History, Lifetime, LMN, Vice, Game Show Network, Get TV, Sony Movie Channel, INSP, GAC Family, GAC Living, MeTV, H&I, Story Television, Start TV, Decades, MeTV+, ION, ION Mystery, Bounce, Court TV, Grit, Defy, Newsy, Laff, TrueReal, Brown Sugar, ION Plus, Charge!, Comet, TBD
SVOD -- none

The SVODs above would continue to be available direct-to-consumer on a standalone basis. But they would be non-optionally included when buying the linear-channel cable TV bundles above from an MVPD distributor (e.g. Comcast, Charter, YouTube TV, etc.)

MVPD's own VOD platforms would cease to exist, except to provide on-demand access to all shows from channels in the Variety Pack. Otherwise, MVPD customers would just use the related SVOD for on-demand access to shows featured on the related channels. And, of course, those SVODs would offer a lot of additional content still not available on those channels, e.g. Max Originals, Disney+ Originals, etc.

MVPDs' home screens (on their own STBs and apps) would still feature an aggregated live channel grid guide containing all the linear channels to which you subscribe. But it would also feature suggested on-demand content from across the various SVODs you buy through the MVPD. Click on the tile for the latest episode of SNL and it launches you into the Peacock app to watch there.

Cloud DVR becomes a thing of the past. The linear channels are only for watching live (with the ability to pause and rewind for a limited amount of time, e.g. 30 minutes). If you want to avoid unskippable ads when watching content on-demand in a given SVOD, you'll need to pay more for the Pack it's part of. Since channels in the Variety Pack and Sports Pack (except RSNs) have no associated SVODs, everything they've aired within the last X days is available on-demand in the MVPDs' native VOD platform with unskippable ads (which, in some cases, may be removed via a small upgrade fee).

Instead of a DVR list of recorded shows, you simply have a collection of saved titles to watch on-demand from across all the Packs you subscribe to. You could add a show or movie from within the linear channel grid guide to your on-demand queue or add it from elsewhere in the MVPD home screen. Also, when adding a title inside an SVOD app to that app's internal queue, it would flow through and also get added to your universal queue maintained in the MVPD home screen UI.

Of course, MVPDs (at least those with their own broadband service, such as Comcast and Charter) will also attempt to be resellers of other SVODs too, i.e. those not associated with traditional TV studios, such as Netflix, Prime Video, and Apple TV+. If they do, then those services' on-demand content would also be featured in the MVPD home screen UI and available to add to its universal on-demand queue. I suspect that this is the end-game for the Flex streaming platform that is now a part of the new Comcast/Charter joint venture.
 
MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

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So the more things change the more they stay the same. All the media companies have bundled themselves and merged themselves so you have to pay to get channels you might not even watch. This is cable model we have had for years now. What ever happened to true ala carte? In Canada they use ala carte but offer the bundle for those who want it. So you can literally add just the channels you want. But at the rate the tv channels are becoming just infomercials and network rerun tv, who knows how much longer anyone will keep the old cable /sat model?
 
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NashGuy

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So the more things change the more they stay the same. All the media companies have bundled themselves and merged themselves so you have to pay to get channels you might not even watch. This is cable model we have had for years now. What ever happened to true ala carte? In Canada they use ala carte but offer the bundle for those who want it. So you can literally add just the channels you want. But at the rate the tv channels are becoming just infomercials and network rerun tv, who knows how much longer anyone will keep the old cable /sat model?
No, what we've traditionally had is "Here's a whole bunch of channels mixed together from various companies -- it's our standard bundle. And here's an even bigger bunch of channels, which includes everything from the first bunch, plus even more -- it's our super bundle. And then here are a few premium channels which you can add a la carte to either of those first two options. If you want to watch content on-demand and avoid ads, you can pay extra for a DVR so you can record shows and then fast forward through the ads."

What we're moving to is: "Here are 5 or 6 different competing mini-bundles of content, each one spanning different kinds of series and movies (and most also containing news and some live sports). Each bundle mainly focuses on content made by the company selling it. You can buy however many of them you like, mix and match as you see fit. It's easy to add and drop these bundles on a monthly basis, although you do get a discount if you prepay for a year at a time. Everything is automatically available on-demand to watch on your schedule. You can pay a lower price for a bundle and have unskippable ads or you can pay more and not have the ads included at all."

I obviously think the latter system is better because it gives consumers more options and flexibility and also because it produces more competition, which keeps prices in check and incentivizes them to keep improving their product. In the former system, the big players (e.g. Disney's ABC and ESPN, Fox's Fox and Fox News, WBD's CNN and HGTV, Paramount's CBS and Nickelodeon) are engaging is what I'd call "cooptition" -- sort of a cross between cooperation and competition. All of those channels, to some extent, benefitted from the others being in the same forced bundle. In the latter scenario, it's pure competition.
 
MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

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Is it cord cutting when it is Netflix?
Yes. Especially if you drop satellite or cable systems. Netflix was my gateway into streaming before it exploded. Now it is in need of changes to make it easier to find something to watch instead of doom scrolling for hours on end. The quality needs to improve on their shows and movies as well. The cancellation for their original series tv is high as well.
 
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Bruce

Bruce

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I have plenty in My List most of the time. No searching for me.
I am overwhelmed by how much stuff is in my list I wish to watch.
 
Bruce

Bruce

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Yup, plus each app has another list.

And I still have some stuff recording on the Xfinity DVR.
Yeah, I have given up on the DVR with YTTV, especially since almost every show on Traditional TV is on a streaming service either before, same day or day after on a streaming service, in a lot better quality, both picture and sound.
 
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MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

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What is "doom scrolling"?
For instance someone who watches the news feed on their phone and keep looking at nothing but doom stories like" Covid will kill us all!" and now "Monkey pox will kill you too !" and the "Russians and the Chinese are going to attack us here at home!" They can spend hours looking at their phone getting more and more crazy with anxiety and the glass is half empty and nothing but negative stories . As Dr. Smith on Lost in Space would say: "Woe is me!" and then he would start screaming like a female.

But in my case I was talking about when you're trying to find something to watch on Netflix that sounds good and just start scrolling and scrolling for an hour. Finally you just give up and leave Netflix and go to another service to watch or you turn off the tv/tablet/phone and call it a night.
 
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anex80

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But in my case I was talking about when you're trying to find something to watch on Netflix that sounds good and just start scrolling and scrolling for an hour. Finally you just give up and leave Netflix and go to another service to watch or you turn off the tv/tablet/phone and call it a night.


Yeah, this exactly! That happens to me all the time. Add in the multiple apps and I could easily spend hours scrolling through an endless supply of content and still not find anything I want to watch. At least with cable, it only took a few minutes to scroll through the channels they provided.
 
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mwdxer1

mwdxer1

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I say that by the end of this decade you will have to stream your tv or their won't be any tv. IF they get broadband through out the country with the infrastructure Bill passed and especially in the rural areas , there will be less reason for anyone to have cable or satellite. The downside to cable and satellite is all the extra FEES for dvr and for additional receivers. This is the attraction to streaming. No extra fees. Add the app on any roku or fire tv or stick and you can watch it any room in the house as long as you have wifi.

Now DISH could convert their service into a more streaming channels like Sling tv but also provide satellite locals or streaming locals. Then there would be less reason for all the satellites except for sat locals. But sooner or later they could maybe just stream the locals too. It might mean working new deals with all the cities again to stream the networks instead of by satellite. But they need to find a way to get around the restriction on how many streams at a time for your programming. Like Sling tv has the blue pack with 3 streams and the orange pack with ESPN channels has only 1 stream at a time.

Maybe they could combine the Sling tv cloud feature and their channels with the Hopper plus . With the hopper plus you can add any app , even Sling tv. Then you would get the dvr hard drive and the cloud feature dvr too. This would also up-convert the hd to 4k with the Hopper plus since most of Sling tv channels are 720p.
I am getting rid of my big dish this Summer as I no longer need it. I haven't in years. I started with a Roku in 2014 when we got high speed out here and I haven't looked back. Between 33 OTA channels and all of the free material on streaming services, plus a pay service a person can get when they want, with no extra fees. At in Cloud DVRs, the handwriting is on the wall.
 
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ncted

ncted

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Yeah, this exactly! That happens to me all the time. Add in the multiple apps and I could easily spend hours scrolling through an endless supply of content and still not find anything I want to watch. At least with cable, it only took a few minutes to scroll through the channels they provided.
With cable, I often never found anything to watch, especially as time went on, and channels like History, Discovery, TLC, etc. ruined their programming.
 
mwdxer1

mwdxer1

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I say that by the end of this decade you will have to stream your tv or their won't be any tv. IF they get broadband through out the country with the infrastructure Bill passed and especially in the rural areas , there will be less reason for anyone to have cable or satellite. The downside to cable and satellite is all the extra FEES for dvr and for additional receivers. This is the attraction to streaming. No extra fees. Add the app on any roku or fire tv or stick and you can watch it any room in the house as long as you have wifi.

Now DISH could convert their service into a more streaming channels like Sling tv but also provide satellite locals or streaming locals. Then there would be less reason for all the satellites except for sat locals. But sooner or later they could maybe just stream the locals too. It might mean working new deals with all the cities again to stream the networks instead of by satellite. But they need to find a way to get around the restriction on how many streams at a time for your programming. Like Sling tv has the blue pack with 3 streams and the orange pack with ESPN channels has only 1 stream at a time.

Maybe they could combine the Sling tv cloud feature and their channels with the Hopper plus . With the hopper plus you can add any app , even Sling tv. Then you would get the dvr hard drive and the cloud feature dvr too. This would also up-convert the hd to 4k with the Hopper plus since most of Sling tv channels are 720p.
I can easily see locals being streamed by Dish in the future. I think Direct already is do that, plus other streaming services. Diginets stream.
 
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mwdxer1

mwdxer1

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No, what we've traditionally had is "Here's a whole bunch of channels mixed together from various companies -- it's our standard bundle. And here's an even bigger bunch of channels, which includes everything from the first bunch, plus even more -- it's our super bundle. And then here are a few premium channels which you can add a la carte to either of those first two options. If you want to watch content on-demand and avoid ads, you can pay extra for a DVR so you can record shows and then fast forward through the ads."

What we're moving to is: "Here are 5 or 6 different competing mini-bundles of content, each one spanning different kinds of series and movies (and most also containing news and some live sports). Each bundle mainly focuses on content made by the company selling it. You can buy however many of them you like, mix and match as you see fit. It's easy to add and drop these bundles on a monthly basis, although you do get a discount if you prepay for a year at a time. Everything is automatically available on-demand to watch on your schedule. You can pay a lower price for a bundle and have unskippable ads or you can pay more and not have the ads included at all."

I obviously think the latter system is better because it gives consumers more options and flexibility and also because it produces more competition, which keeps prices in check and incentivizes them to keep improving their product. In the former system, the big players (e.g. Disney's ABC and ESPN, Fox's Fox and Fox News, WBD's CNN and HGTV, Paramount's CBS and Nickelodeon) are engaging is what I'd call "cooptition" -- sort of a cross between cooperation and competition. All of those channels, to some extent, benefitted from the others being in the same forced bundle. In the latter scenario, it's pure competition.
With cable & satellite people are paying for commercial channels like USA, Nick, etc. Free streaming services offer many of these same services. Not always the same content, but still a free streaming service with ads. I always didn't like paying for a commercial channel on satellite/cable. Now Xumo, Pluto, Free Sling, etc all have lots of commercial channels for free. That is the way it should be.
 

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