Direct TV said they can't install
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Chimney mounts are a non-starter with the Slimline. Eve mounts can be done but the approved mount isn't cheap.
The Commdeck is not on the approved materials list and doesn't answer the struts question.
It may not be approved, but you can install two more and use those for the struts.
Spending a lot of money to use non-approved mounting probably isn't going to get you as far as screwing the dish base directly onto the roof in terms of passing QC. Either way you're creating a whole bunch of penetrations, any one of which will apparently void the roof warranty.
Commdecks cost as little as $43, not exactly a lot of money. They don't expose the roof deck to any more penetrations than the nails in the shingles do. They even make a clip for struts that don't expose any holes. Why would that void the warranty? http://www.rstcenterprises.com/commdeck/users/roofing_contractors.phtml
Alas, the new roof is already installed and the Commdeck must be installed with the roofing.
The Retrodeck can be installed in an existing roof, but it still demands penetrating the ice guard and if the roofer isn't going to stand behind it for any penetration of the ice guard, it doesn't matter what any of us reasons.
The Retrodeck can be installed in an existing roof, but it still demands penetrating the ice guard and if the roofer isn't going to stand behind it for any penetration of the ice guard, it doesn't matter what any of us reasons.
A retrodeck may be easier to install on an existing roof, but a commdeck can be installed on an existing roof, too.
So back on topic.... I just thought about this, maybe im reading this wrong, but is OP basically saying they are ok with the dish being installed on one part of the roof but not another? I fail to see how any warranties can be voided by dish placement in one area but not in another. I also am not a roofer, but I am a sat installer... Just wondering how this turned out.
Installers of third party goods that offer warranties are typically passing along manufacturer warranties. If the ice guard warranty depends on the ice guard not being compromised in a manner inconsistent with modern roofing techniques, the roofer is unlikely to step in and bail you out if something goes bad.
Where I work, we use a lot of electric motors from major manufacturers and we make sure the customer understands that while we'll help them gather information to obtain warranty, it is the manufacturer's warranty, not ours. If they decide they want to do something that voids the warranty (like using the wrong kind of lubricant or running at an odd voltage), they're going to have to duke it out with the manufacturer.
Nobody has yet considered a non penetrating roof mount. There is one that straddles the crown of the roof............a little hard for the ladies to install from a ladder.....but it won't penetrate the roof. There is also the old trick of using the plumbing vent stack as a mast; always cool with the round dish.....slimelines etc. maybe not so much. AND a steel pole can be placed on a brick on the ground with a bag of quick dry cement to an attachment point beside the roof. With a good clamp at the highest possible point....could work but a two story steel pole = $$$$.
Possibilities,
Joe
Possibilities,
Joe
The stack pipe has never been a good idea. First off, many are plastic, and even the cast iron ones aren't supported well enough to keep a dish from moving around.
How can you install a roof without getting off of the ladder?
The OSHA rule must not apply to roofers!!! The rule only applies Directv installers.
The OSHA rule must not apply to roofers!!! The rule only applies Directv installers.
Hey Chip,
True,
As an installer who was paid for installations by a subcontractor who was paid for installed jobs you always get to choose. Is this visit worth doing for free? Having driven as much as fifty or more miles one way is this the day you decide to eat one hundred miles and three hours of windshield time? So you look for things that will work. White PVC stacks will not ever merit a roof climb. Copper stacks, maybe. Iron...will almost always work with an adapter just because older construction practices were mechanically over-built.
While up on the roof it is worth looking at the quality of the joints on any chimney that might be present. You can hang dishes on some chimneys but some are so poorly constructed you have to be selective. I only found a need for a chimney strap one time and that customer fabricated it from steel plate. His cost, in his shop was around two hundred bucks but was very strong.
An hourly employee who is instructed not to get off the ladder might walk around the property for some nonproductive time but will have to skip several possibilities before driving to the next customer. Likewise ,they will not consider spiking into trees or stumps. Dead Pintos with no wheels are not a solution for them. Sheds and fences are bypassed. They are not even tempted to use power poles.
As their office falls behind their installation quota they look to the HSPs and "Road Crews" to bring up the numbers.....Then they get out the specifications and again refuse jobs that will never be simple or safe to service.
Did I ever tell you about the time I lag bolted a dish to a Studerbaker roof? The owner drove off with the dish still connected....who knew?
Joe
True,
As an installer who was paid for installations by a subcontractor who was paid for installed jobs you always get to choose. Is this visit worth doing for free? Having driven as much as fifty or more miles one way is this the day you decide to eat one hundred miles and three hours of windshield time? So you look for things that will work. White PVC stacks will not ever merit a roof climb. Copper stacks, maybe. Iron...will almost always work with an adapter just because older construction practices were mechanically over-built.
While up on the roof it is worth looking at the quality of the joints on any chimney that might be present. You can hang dishes on some chimneys but some are so poorly constructed you have to be selective. I only found a need for a chimney strap one time and that customer fabricated it from steel plate. His cost, in his shop was around two hundred bucks but was very strong.
An hourly employee who is instructed not to get off the ladder might walk around the property for some nonproductive time but will have to skip several possibilities before driving to the next customer. Likewise ,they will not consider spiking into trees or stumps. Dead Pintos with no wheels are not a solution for them. Sheds and fences are bypassed. They are not even tempted to use power poles.
As their office falls behind their installation quota they look to the HSPs and "Road Crews" to bring up the numbers.....Then they get out the specifications and again refuse jobs that will never be simple or safe to service.
Did I ever tell you about the time I lag bolted a dish to a Studerbaker roof? The owner drove off with the dish still connected....who knew?
Joe
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It has to do with what insurance is in effect. I did some built up roofing on federal projects. OSHA wanted guard rails on the edges of the roofs. It was later argued that constructing the rails was more dangerous than just paying attention to what was being done. The roofing company had experienced supervisors who instructed new workers. The money was good enough that there was not much of a turn over so techs gained skills and experience....unlike the "satellite installation industry."
Joe
So, it is not about OSHA rules, but it is the issue of insurance or the lack of insurance. If the installer had good insurance he could do a roof install!!!
In my opinion they are interchangeable forces and both apply. Word on the street is that after Mike White the DirecTV CEO was shown on a TV show with what looked like untrained workers screwing around with ladders the word came down. I saw one episode on YouTube that made me wince; clueless worker on an extension ladder with incorrect angle...next step was the ladder sliding away from the roof. Ladders come with an OSHA warning that falls can hurt! So when some OSHA wonk sees clowns at work they pass the word to insurance companies. Insurance carriers pass the word to their customers. I think the real factor was some unstated cost to train employees or provide safe roof work conditions.
Remember that for years and years both DirecTv and DISH were able to function by buying completed installations from subcontractors. One of the costs they were able to avoid with this policy was Workman's Compensation Insurance. As they begin to transition to employee served installation departments this cost becomes significant to them. Since it is true a worker can die from a fall from a thirty foot ladder or the roof above that level it must have become too hard to assure management that workers would be able to work safely in every case.
All this is just my read on the situation. I have climbed all over structures and trees without injury. There were tasks I declined because they were, in my opinion, too dangerous for me to attempt. Others with different skills and or equipment sometimes went where I would not. I also encountered workers who could not function in climbing situations. Instead of sorting and qualifying climbers from non climbers it must have been cheaper to just limit liability and ban off-ladder work for all residential satellite system installers.
OSHA does not control what companies do. They just fine the beejeebers off companies who have injuries due to unsafe working conditions. Insurance underwriters note the carnage and estimate the costs. It is business owners who are free to attempt operations they can profitably undertake. There must be some amount that will buy insurance for the roof walk.......bet ya......but that would eliminate FREE installations.
There are safe ways to do everything....just not inexpensive ways to do some of them. Insurance is a cost of doing business. The bean counters rule.
Joe
AFTERTHOUGHT: Even if you find someone who will do an off ladder installation you will still have a problem. If DirecTv sticks to this policy you will not be able to get service through Directv. Their employee techs will still not be allowed to leave their ladders. You will incur the same costs people who required a forty foot ladder or a cherry picker to get their dish up. The basic installation is a dish attached to the building (and now within reach of a ladder).
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Joe.
I agree with everything you said. If DirecTv sticks to this policy I will not be a DirecTv customer in the future. I will be a DirecTv customer until my roof mounted dish needs service and the tech refuses to get on my roof. Then bye-bye DirecTv.
I agree with everything you said. If DirecTv sticks to this policy I will not be a DirecTv customer in the future. I will be a DirecTv customer until my roof mounted dish needs service and the tech refuses to get on my roof. Then bye-bye DirecTv.
Roofers SHOULD always wear a safety harness. I don't think I've ever seen an install tech wearing one.
I always tie off the ladder.
For the unwalkable deck I charged more and used a tree climbing belt attached to a line thrown over the roof crown and tied off to my truck or something on the building. This was rare....just said no to that process. But on a walkable deck getting on and off the ladder is the biggest issue.
I did run into a new HSP guy.....asked him why there was no ladder on his van. "Not certified for a ladder yet." Next day I saw him on top of an extended thirty footer with a round dish in hand. Another guy with a new shirt was on the lawn with a compass pointing to where the dish should go. The man got certified but...no safety harness. Looked like the trees behind the house were going to ruin his day unless he found some way to get to the crown of that steep roof with tools, cable and an assembled dish.
Coulda parked a Studerbaker on the lawn and mounted the dish on the the hood.
Joe
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