Dish pointing revisited (Miami)

[lostcause]

Got some more info and was wondering if anyone could confirm it for me.

My zip code is 33186. According to the sat finder guides I found, my azimuth should be approx 145-146 and elevation should be about 55. Can anyone confirm this?


If this is right, I should be just above and slightly to the right of the tree line and buildings in the condo I'm moving into (couple of small branches still in the way, but nothing major). This means I can keep Voom if my calcs are right!!!

 

[PSB]

Heres what I get for your zip.........
33186
Lat./N. = 25.66
Long./W.= 80.40
61.5W satellite......
53 deg. Elevation
142 deg. Azim.
36920km distance to satellite
Polarity= 34deg.
Magnetic deviation in your area is +4 deg. so your true Azim. = 146deg. W.

 

[lostcause]

Ok cool so I was pretty close. I was basing it on magnetic north so it looks like I was almost right on.

As an installer, can you comment on any installs you've done where there were trees? How badly will trees block the signal vs. something like dtv or dish?

 

[PSB]

I hate to bust your bubble you sound like the kind of customer that any satellite company would LOVE to have.............BUT!
Satellite signals will not pass through any solid object, so if a tree or building is in the way you have had it! The signal will be better in winter as the trees have dropped their leaves ( Never been to FL. so maybe they are there year round) but even the branches will block some signal, a bigger dish may help slightly but nothing beats a clear line of sight. You should invest in a sight survey tool they are great and you can pinpoint the satellite in the sky. Even if you cut out a bit of cardboard to your elevation angle and hold the sharp end up to your face and look along the top of the card this should give you an idea of the clearance you have, here is a link to a satellite clearance calculator it may help. As your elevation is pretty steep and so any obstruction would have to be really big, hope it works out for you, where there is a will there is a way!

http://www.bjup.com/services/bjhomesat/tech_support/obstacle.html

 

[lostcause]

Thanks for the info. As for the trees being in the way, I have seen dtv dishes pointed right into trees. I'm going to assume that the signal is making it through the small spaces between the leaves and branches. Is the voom signal able to do this at all?

BTW, what's the site survey tool you mentioned? Where can I find one? Is this something the local rat shack or home depot might have?

 

[PSB]

An offset (DirecTV, Voom) dish looks like it is pointing right ahead but its very deceiving the angle that the signal comes down at is MUCH steeper than the way the satellite dish looks, a bit of cardboard cut at 53deg. would work but here is a link to the specs on a site survey tool, the price is listed on my web site, if your installer shows up without one of these he is not an installer at all.......its a must for any pro! If he shows up without one of these and says " Eh! Like you have no line of sight or something" then get a real installer, I am fed up hearing of installers saying " I can tell where the satellite is just by looking at the sky" Thats garbage!

http://www.dmsiusa.com/site_survey.htm

 

[lostcause]

Cool. I'm not sure what that tool is but it looks like a compass with either an elevation gauge or something. The price is a little steep for something I'll probably only use once in the next 5 years.

What can I use instead of this to be absolutely sure I can get a decent LOS? I went out with a compass today and used the 145-146 azimuth and it looked ok. I guesstimated the elevation. You mentioned a piece of cardboard. What exactly would I do with it? besides the cardboard, anything else I can use to work with the compass and pinpoint the bird?

 

[PSB]

A protractor or the above cardboard trick will work, just stand where the dish is going to be and look up along the top edge of of the cardboard (cut at 53deg) and it will be pointing at the satellite, the survey tool is a compass and an inclinometer in one, a must for every installer, I mean one install could pay for one of these tools, but I guess "your" installer has better things to do with your money ; )

 

[lostcause]

hehehe...well..at this point my installer looks like it's gonna be me!! Unless of course voom will give me a free reinstall at my new place. Either way, I would like to be 100% sure I can get a decent LOS to the sat before I fully commit to the new condo. I have just over a week before I can either cancel the deal or try and get a different condo in the same complex.(would cost 8000 more though so i'm really trying to avoid it)

Thanks for the info. It's been very helpful.

 

[PSB]

I did not mean your installer I was just talking in general, here is a picture of a "stone age" site survey tool, same method as the cardboard.....

 

[lostcause]

Looks like I will be joining the stone age tomorrow and makin me one of those.

 

[PSB]

Good Luck!

 

[lostcause]

Ok!! I'm ready to go satellite hunting. Although I gotta say my sat finder kit is more ghetto style than stone age. I took a piece of cardboard from the back of a legal pad, cut a 53 degree angle, took a pen cap and chopped off the top and taped it to the top of the angle. It looks more or less like the stone age one you posted. I don't have a level so I'll have to wing it but with this and a compass I should be able to get pretty close.

 

[PSB]

Happy hunting, the "tool" you made is better than what most dbs installers have : ) I REALLY hope it works out for you! And you get to keep VoOM!

 

[lostcause]

............ the "tool" you made is better than what most dbs installers have : ) .........

Please tell me you're kidding!! It's just a piece of cardboard with a pen cap scotch-taped to it!!!

This is scary if it's true.

 

[PSB]

I kid you not! Maybe we should start a poll...did your installer have a site survey tool?
(compass/inclinometer) If not and he told you "You have no line of sight" there is a good chance he was wrong!

 

[lostcause]

TREE!!!!!

I went out with my ghetto sat finder kit...I thought my problem would be a tree about 100 feet away...boy was I wrong. Based on the elevation, my problem is a tree literally right outside my porch. I had thought I would go under it but noooooo.... damn dish points right up into it. Here's the thing though..it's not a completely solid tree. I can see lots and lots of holes through the branches and leaves. Might the signal get through this??

I suppose I can always make nice with the neighbor and mount it 20 feet over on his wall if he lets me...I'll still catch a branch or two but I'll be out of the heavy branches.

 

[PSB]

Some signal may get through but it does not sound good, put it this way if I were sent to your home to do the job I would/could not do it, even if there are trees any closer than 10deg. all round I will not install. Any chance of going lower with the dish? Remember these dish can even be at ground level as long as they "see" the satellite! Check my web site for some ideas of how low you can go, you must really want to keep VoOM.

 

[lostcause]

Well, I was pretty much looking from just below my shoulder level. The tree is so close though that I don't think ground level will give me 10 deg. clearance all around. How about the 30" dish?? Any help? The reason I want to keep voom is simply for the HD channels (that and i'm also a stubborn bastard). I've had them for 2 weeks or so and can't see going back to dtv with their 3 HD channels for 11/mo extra. I may just have to though. I can always see how far I can go before the condo commandos start complaining. I can try and mount it on the edge of the roof where I would be just above the tree. The current association is turning it over to another association in January...maybe if the dish is already up they will grandfather it in and leave me alone if no one complains...who knows. (I certainly won't be able to use the winegard antenna though...it's not exactly inconspicuous). Oh, and my neighbor looks like he has a dishnet dual lnb dish pointing sw towards the 110 sat shooting right into a line of trees. I understand that trees block the signal, but man...I see so many that are pointing right at trees or tree lines. Are dish and dtv's signals that much stronger than vooms???

 

[PSB]

Stronger and higher, again the angle that the dish looks at is MUCH steeper than it seems as its an offset dish, where as a prime focus dish (c band) points directly at the satellite.
I bet half of the dish you see with trees in front have deactivated but not got round to taking down the dish, see it all the time. Maybe a tripod or some other non permanent mount would work, a bigger dish will help but its not the answer to no line of sight. What about an inside window mount, I have a link on my web site, you put a satellite dish inside behind the window, it looks really cool as the dish is upside down, I tried it the other day and it worked, the glass may block some of the signal but you may clear the tree if the window is high enough, they say to try it through an open window then close the window, if you loose too much signal you can replace the glass with plastic glass, I am grasping at straws now : )