Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th

HobbyTalk · May 4, 2008

Tyralak said:
They could have doe something like that here, and didn't.

Since E* is the last major video supplier that put this into effect, I would suspect that everything was done that could be done. By dropping the channels there would be no way to prove to the studios that this DRM is hurting sales as there would be no sales to compare to.

downriver · May 4, 2008

With the price of DVD's coming down and an HD PPV at $6. they can kiss that business goodbye !!

Smith P. · May 4, 2008

long_time_DNC said:
Seriously?? HBO and Cinemax are DRM'd today, or just flagged for implementation on the 6th?

If they go DRM on the 6th also, Dish is going to have some really bad news coming from me on Tuesday.

They are flagged for months and ppl did reported problems with writing to DVD recorders from HBO/MAX.

Dodge Ram Nut · May 4, 2008

I SUDDENLY see a major DVD Recording machines buying frenzy in the very near future. I have DVD recorder and I don't order THAT much PPV's. When I do, its a movie that I wanna watch which will be REALLY good.

Hmm..maybe it's time to start investing in buying DVD recording discs now eh? Or perhaps....bring back the good ol trusty VCR!!!

Smith P. · May 4, 2008

In case if have a few hundred bucks - look for R5000HD.

long_time_DNC · May 4, 2008

Smith said:
They are flagged for months and ppl did reported problems with writing to DVD recorders from HBO/MAX.

And what about any DVR issues?

waltinvt · May 5, 2008

kstuart said:
It seems that I am the only one who ever looks at these issues from the standpoint of someone doing business.

Suppose "Lifetime" Channel asks Dish Network for a large increase, larger than they are charging cable. Charlie always resists those increases, when they are not fair or not reasonable. So, they say "Fine, we will just not renew Lifetime" and immediately Lifetime loses 12 million potential viewers, and have to reduce what they charge advertisers. They are losing money. So, Dish Network has some leverage.

Now suppose the studio that makes the movie "National Treasure - Book of Secrets" imposes DRM restrictions, and Charlie then did what some in this thread propose - not carry those movies at all. The result would simply be that people would rent the movie elsewhere. All that happens is that Dish Network would lose their share.

If Dish Network drops a channel you like (or doesn't add it), you have to go through a lot of work to get it elsewhere. You'd have to have DirecTV or Cable installed - more commitments, bad installs, stupid CSRs, new equipment that works differently or poorly. It's a major change - and the new provider may not have other channels that Dish still carries.

But, if Dish Network PPV doesn't have the movie you want to see, in 10 minutes you're at Blockbuster, or in 1 minute, you are clicking on "add" in your Netflix account.

So, Dish Network has no leverage with regards to PPV rentals.

If you think that Dish did not complain about it, then why is Dish the last to comply with it ??

In case you're pointing to me.................., I've owned & run my own business since around 1970 and currently support a family of 10 with it. My business provides a service and graphical product to customers.

Never in almost 40 years have I provided something to my customer and then turned around and put restrictions on his rights to it. Never.

Granted, the business comparisons aren't the same but I do have to compete against people willing to things to gain a business edge that I consider a personal compromise and I probably loose jobs because of it but that's the way it is.

If something is wrong, it's wrong and imho taking away what someone's always been allowed to do or have is wrong. It doesn't become right just because everyone else does it and you're not any less culpable just because you're the last to give in to it.

PJSwan · May 5, 2008

A rough quote from a book my wife is reading: (Human Sigma, I don't have it in front of me)

Procedures implemented solely for business operations reasons will be perceived as unfair by the customer.

This 24 hour timer thing is a crappy business practice. If the movie expires before I have time to finish watching it, I expect them to refund my money, because I didn't get the value I paid for. If that's not the deal, then no deal.

I have lots of other stuff on the DVR, I don't need to watch PPV. I would consider PPV if the price was right, which it isn't.

They should reduce the price of PPV to reflect the reduced value. (fat chance) I could imagine a variation where the 24-hour copy is only, say, $3, but you could optionally pay another $5 for unlimited playback. That would be reasonable to me as a customer.

Voyager6 · May 5, 2008

Well E* has gotten it's last PPV from us. The 24 hour viewing window and the expiration date are both crap. Just imagine the calls that the E* call centers will be receiving when purchased PPV's are unwatchable on subscriber's DVR's. If this spreads to the premium movie channels, I will cancel them also. I will not pay to support DRM in this manner.

barnie · May 5, 2008

Done with PPV for me!

maddawg · May 5, 2008

This is great move...lol...force us to rent movies again. Most folks will just rip it and return it...gotta love the idiots in hollywood.

Smith P. · May 5, 2008

It's seems to me the move have other side - Dish want the additional money for re-order expired PPV. I think it will be pure Dish income, not the content provider.

Sponge14 · May 5, 2008

I just want to say, that I haven't ordered PPV in over 15 years... That being said, PPV stands for pay PER view, so I guess I don't understand why everyones so up in arms that it is really now pay PER view, and not pay $5.99 and own it'? For $5.99 why do you think you're entitled to own the movie on DVR forever? I am not a cheerleader for DRM or anything, but in this case I don't see a problem with it. It's the same reason I don't buy on Xbox live, the DRM limits are stupid. But the movies and rights ARE owned by the studios, they can do what they want with them. When they see a negative impact in the $$$ then they will change their minds. Until then, I will continue to use the blockbuster instore unlimited rentals. I can get blu-ray or dvd for the same price, and watch them as long as I want.

treiher · May 5, 2008

You can scrub the semantics of this all you want, parsing whether pay per view means pay per EACH view or pay per MULTIPLE views, but it doesn't really matter. How many people say roll up the window in your car, even though almost no cars have a handle you roll up any more. How many people put cc: in their documents, representing "carbon copy" even though that old method of copying is long gone.

The simple reality is, the service has been this way for years and years and people have an understanding of what PPV means based on that long history. Now they are taking part of that capability away while raising their rates. It's not hard to understand at all why people don't like this.

Ramen · May 5, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just have to leave my ppv locked and blocked as usual.

ShadowInc · May 5, 2008

Will this also effect sporting events? Wrestling, UFC, etc.?

Pakbackr · May 5, 2008

Thanks - This just gave me the final piece of ammunition I need (hopefully) to talk my wife into agreeing to buy a Sony PS3 with built-in Blu-Ray! Then we'll have a Netflix membership faster than you can say "PPV viewing restrictions suck!"

Smith P. · May 5, 2008

So far no changes of DRM data in system tables in last six updates from 4pm 5/4 (Sunday).
Perhaps no such movies spooling on PPV ? Or Dish use other way to flag them ?

Tyralak · May 5, 2008

Smith said:
So far no changes of DRM data in system tables in last six updates from 4pm 5/4 (Sunday).
Perhaps no such movies spooling on PPV ? Or Dish use other way to flag them ?

I looked ahead in the guide and saw several, but not all movies showing a yellow "limited recording" tag. It seems like it's only certain movies.

waltinvt · May 5, 2008

Smith said:
So far no changes of DRM data in system tables in last six updates from 4pm 5/4 (Sunday).
Perhaps no such movies spooling on PPV ? Or Dish use other way to flag them ?

Or is it possible that 160 post, most voicing discontent, in less than 48 hours giving them reason for pause?

Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th

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