Do you have microstutters?

[ChetK]

Common! I have only had Voom for 24 hours and I've noticed it many times.

1. Your eyes are not trained enough to notice these somewhat subtle artifacts.
2. You have a newer box than what the rest of us have and the problem could have been corrected in the newer hardware.

I think it's #1. I have the newest hardware available (came with the latest software already installed) and I have the microstutter.

If I really cared about what you might think, I'd do an extensive study to find which channels and when it happens. But, in this case, I don't. Sorry.

 

[DarrellP]

It took me awhile to see it, but it's there. If it makes you guys feel any better, I get micro stutters on my Dish 6000 as well from OTA and sat but not on all programming, some is worse than others. So is it something inherent in the HD conversion process or is it in the stb's?

 

[Scubasoul]

It's clearly there, at least for the majority here. I just got a brand new box a few weeks ago, and it's still there.

I believe it's similar to the chroma bug with some DVD players. Most people don't see the bug, until somebody shows it to them, or they know what to look for. Once they see it, they see it all the time.

 

[vurbano]

15 and counting.......what's wrong with you people-they don't exist, have not you heard?-lol

Only 20,000 more subscriber votes to go. LMAO

 

[eschu97611]

Only 20,000 more subscriber votes to go. LMAO

Sore loser-LMAO

 

[vurbano]

Sore loser-LMAO

Loser?
You dont think I knew that starting this poll in a forum full of mostly videophiles complaining incessantly about PQ would produce more yes votes than no votes? The majority of Voom users probably dont even know what a "forum" is let alone microstutters. I thought this thread would be a great place to see what % of forum members are bothered by it and to let them define exactly what it is.
Why not post something constructive for once Eschu?

 

[Ilya]

Just one more thought on the subject of microstutters. There is a lot of video-processing done in the TV set itself. It is possible that some TV sets are more susceptible to skipped frames and/or frequency deviation than others. That could explain why the problem is more noticeable to some and less noticeable to others.

Ilya.

 

[Ilya]

Actual video is 29.97 frames per second (It's actually called "drop-frame"). However, somewhere in the pipeline, some piece of "upconvert" or "downconvert" or "transmission" equipment is changing it to 30fps. Thus, this dropped frame is visible. I could be wrong, but that's what it seems could be the problem.

ChetK,
That's exactly what I was thinking too. See my post here. However, if this theory is correct, microstutters must be happening with the same frequency all the time, once in every 16 or 17 seconds according to my calculations. Can one of you (with trained eyes) time these microstutters to see how frequently they actually happen?

 

[Scubasoul]

ChetK,
That's exactly what I was thinking too. See my post here. However, if this theory is correct, microstutters must be happening with the same frequency all the time, once in every 16 or 17 seconds according to my calculations. Can one of you (with trained eyes) time these microstutters to see how frequently they actually happen?

I just measured the time between each "skip" using a stop watch and the ticker of CNN as reference.

I repeated the measurement 5 times. Each time I measured 34 sec.

How did you calculate, since that is almost exactly 2x what you calculated.

I get 1 frame at ~ 34 sec! Do I miss something?

 

[vurbano]

try an HD channel? Maybe it is different for SD?

 

[Ilya]

How did you calculate, since that is almost exactly 2x what you calculated.

Actually, you are right. I was thinking in Hz (59.96Hz vs. 60 Hz), but maybe I should've calculated this in frames per second (29.97 fps vs. 30 fps):

At 30 fps we have 3000 frames in 100 seconds.
At 29.97 fps we have 2997 frames in 100 seconds.
So, we are loosing 3 frames per 100 seconds, or 1 frame every 33 1/3 seconds.

Here is what I think is going on: the satellite is sending video at standard 29.97 fps, but the STB is configured to output at 30 fps. As a result it has to skip one frame every 33.33 seconds.

 

[flipper2001]

ChetK,
That's exactly what I was thinking too. See my post here. However, if this theory is correct, microstutters must be happening with the same frequency all the time, once in every 16 or 17 seconds according to my calculations. Can one of you (with trained eyes) time these microstutters to see how frequently they actually happen?

I been complaining it's 15 seconds, but I'll say maybe it's 16 seconds... For me It's on all HD channels, I havent really watched much SD other then the first day I got it.

As far as the STB's. I still don't understand how some peolple have it (stutters) and others dont. It's just people don't notice it I suppose.

 

[Scubasoul]

Actually, you are right. I was thinking in Hz (59.96Hz vs. 60 Hz), but maybe I should've calculated this in frames per second (29.97 fps vs. 30 fps):

At 30 fps we have 3000 frames in 100 seconds.
At 29.97 fps we have 2997 frames in 100 seconds.
So, we are loosing 3 frames per 100 seconds, or 1 frame every 33 1/3 seconds.

Correct. The problem is that in broadscasting these frames are actually not "dropped", a number is just skipped to keep the accurate time.

However, that may be different at VOOM, at least it is some sort of indication for that.

Maybe somebody else can confirm the ~ 33-34 sec. skip sequence as well.

 

[flipper2001]

Oh well.. Just for the heck of it, one of the few things I havent done. I plugged in Component cable to see if the stutter would go. Nope. No change.. Also noticed its not just the HD stations its every station. I was watching a local OTA baseball game and it's happening there too. Oh well

 

[Ilya]

Oh well.. Just for the heck of it, one of the few things I havent done. I plugged in Component cable to see if the stutter would go. Nope. No change.. Also noticed its not just the HD stations its every station. I was watching a local OTA baseball game and it's happening there too. Oh well

So far that supports my theory, according to which this should be hapenning on all channels including OTA every 33 seconds or so.

 

[Scubasoul]

Oh well.. Just for the heck of it, one of the few things I havent done. I plugged in Component cable to see if the stutter would go. Nope. No change.. Also noticed its not just the HD stations its every station. I was watching a local OTA baseball game and it's happening there too. Oh well

I'm sure it has something to do with the "drop frame time code" on Vooms end.

I e-mailed Wilt and trust that he will reply.

 

[Scubasoul]

So far that supports my theory, according to which this should be hapenning on all channels including OTA every 33 seconds or so.

I too believe that. Hope to hear back from Wilt.

 

[Ilya]

Hope to hear back from Wilt.

I mentioned this to Wilt back in April (that microstutter could be caused by the difference between 59.94Hz and 60Hz frequencies) and his reply was: "That's the theory we're working under right now; seems we might have it, but will test some more."

So, this might be fixed it in the future. I hope this is just a configuration parameter that can be set through the software (to use 59.94Hz frequency instead of 60Hz).

 

[eschu97611]

I mentioned this to Wilt back in April (that microstutter could be caused by the difference between 59.94Hz and 60Hz frequencies) and his reply was: "That's the theory we're working under right now; seems we might have it, but will test some more."

So, this might be fixed it in the future. I hope this is just a configuration parameter that can be set through the software (to use 59.94Hz frequency instead of 60Hz).

Did you say APRIL????? That's what I thought-o.k.........still waiting patiently and paying monthly ON TIME-lol

 

[Scubasoul]

I mentioned this to Wilt back in April (that microstutter could be caused by the difference between 59.94Hz and 60Hz frequencies) and his reply was: "That's the theory we're working under right now; seems we might have it, but will test some more."

So, this might be fixed it in the future. I hope this is just a configuration parameter that can be set through the software (to use 59.94Hz frequency instead of 60Hz).

Interesting, he actually confirms that they are aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. That's a GOOD thing.

I believe it has to do with the "29.97 fps vs. 30 fps" issue.

I hope to get some details from him.