dtv installer says grounded...i am not sure

[cfb]

One of my friends had a roommate who used to get drunk, take off his pants, put them over his head and run across a very busy street. As far as I know, nobody ever ran over him.

That didnt make it a good idea.

Friends dont let friends ground a lightning rod to a water pipe, because most codes would prohibit that for good reasons. Many people have lived with ungrounded dishes and experienced few correlative problems. Which ALSO didnt make it a good idea.

Some people read posts and send replies that arent very good advice, yet they'll stick with that bad advice even though they didnt really read any of the context, because being wrong sucks.

If your local building code says you can tie to a water pipe, or to an ungrounded pipe hanging from your crawlspace, or that you dont have to ground at all, then follow that code. But do check up on it and follow what they say, because they have 50+ years of experience with the stuff that goes wrong when you dont follow it. It might be sad if you saved yourself 20 minutes and 20' of wire and burned your house to the ground. Right? Grounding to a water pipe is fine advice for lower voltage, low amperage applications where there is a circuit breaker and/or a GFCI involved. Its not a very good idea for any application that might involve serious electrical imbalances. Not a good idea at all.

I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread now, because all the useful data is in evidence, and I'm not interested in any more tit for tat regarding the merits of giving really bad advice to people.

 

[leonreno]

The NEC code says to ground to the water pipe as a main ground, you must do so within 5 feet of where it enters the building. And for good reason as I found at with my house. I am in the processes of installing an antenna and dish. I was trying to find the main ground and it was not with the service entrance but under the main breaker box in the kitchen. The ground wire goes under the house in the crawlspace and is attached to a galvanized water pipe. It is about 25 feet from where water pipe enters the crawlspace. Well, guess what, before I bought my house someone replaced the main water pipe coming into the house. It comes in under the ground and turns up inside the crawlspace a few feet inside. The galvanized pipe was replaced with PVC pipe. There fore my ground is grounded to free standing pipe with no contact with the ground. I am about to drive in two grounding rods as close to the panel on the outside of the foundation and run a new ground conductor to them. My antenna/dish setup is on the other side of the house, so I have a ground rod installed there and will bond them together with 6 guage wire, as required by NEC code.
If you don't bond them together and lightening hits the ground somewhere nearby then natural conducting gradients in the soil can produce severe voltage differences between the main ground and your antenna ground. The voltage difference will make current flow from one ground to the other and if you don't bond them together it will likely flow through the equipment by either coax or electrical wire.

 

[rmmrph]

My dish is currently ungrounded. The coax block that the dish feeds are tied into is about 30 feet from the main grounding pole. What would be the best way to accomplish properly grounding it.

 

[Jimbo]

My dish is currently ungrounded. The coax block that the dish feeds are tied into is about 30 feet from the main grounding pole. What would be the best way to accomplish properly grounding it.

The main ground is the BEST way to do it, IF your able to run a ground to it.

 

[Joe Diamond]

My dish is currently ungrounded. The coax block that the dish feeds are tied into is about 30 feet from the main grounding pole. What would be the best way to accomplish properly grounding it.

Without seeing it....move the ground block to within twenty feet of the ground rod...or less. The ground wire cannot (should not) be longer than the shortest cable run in your system.

Once the ground block is correctly placed...extend & connect the coax.

Know that none of this is lightning protection.

Joe

 

[Jimbo]

Without seeing it....move the ground block to within twenty feet of the ground rod...or less. The ground wire cannot (should not) be longer than the shortest cable run in your system.

Once the ground block is correctly placed...extend & connect the coax.

Know that none of this is lightning protection.

Joe

Joe,
What do you recommend if the Main Ground is now reachable, what other options do you use ?

 

[leonreno]

If the main ground is reachable, close to the grounding block, you run a ground wire (10 gauge) to the main ground. If it is not reachable, not close enough, then you are best to run a ground rod as close to the grounding block as possible and then bond that rod to the main ground with 6 gauge wire.

 

[rmmrph]

Without seeing it....move the ground block to within twenty feet of the ground rod...or less. The ground wire cannot (should not) be longer than the shortest cable run in your system.

Once the ground block is correctly placed...extend & connect the coax.

Joe

I thought there was a length limit on how long a ground wire could extend from block to ground point. I kind of rememeber it was pretty short something like 6' or so.

 

[ryotgz]

I currently have Dish and the installer never grounded the equipment. The plan is to switch to Directv in a few weeks. Our house was built in the mid-50s and the only ground I see is from the Fuse box going to the Cold water line in our basement under the kitchen. When we switch I will ensure the Direct guy grounds the install, but what options do they have to ground the equipment in the scenario?

 

[wildbill129]

I currently have Dish and the installer never grounded the equipment. The plan is to switch to Directv in a few weeks. Our house was built in the mid-50s and the only ground I see is from the Fuse box going to the Cold water line in our basement under the kitchen. When we switch I will ensure the Direct guy grounds the install, but what options do they have to ground the equipment in the scenario?

A cold water pipe for electrical service is OK, as long as the ground connection is within 5' of the service entrance. A lot of old homes were only grounded this way. New homes always have a ground rod, although there may be a tie from the ground rod to the cold water piping under the house.

Are you sure that is the only ground and there is no ground rod near the panel? Look at your telephone box on the side of your house. There should be a ground from there that ties to your home ground rod if there is one. It might also go to the cold water pipe.

The 5' rule for cold water bonding is for the service panel, not for an antenna connection to the ground circuit. So, you could connect to the ground via any cold water pipe that is copper and exceeds 10' in length and is underground. It also needs to be tied to the house bond, which in your case it would likely be. DirecTV no longer supports the cold water pipe method even though the NEC allows it in article 810.

So, the installer could ground to your fuse box if it's outside. The metal housing is an acceptable connection. He could ground directly to the cold water pipe where the existing ground is, although he likely will not. The installer can also install a new ground rod, but that MUST tie into the main house bond. You will get ground loops and potential hum in your electronic equipment if not tied to the house bond. The options are:

"Connect to the nearest accessible point on the building's grounding electrode system, which is described in detail in Article 250 as including:
Metal underground water pipe at least 10' in length including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe.
Metal frame of a building that is connected to earth.
Concrete-encased electrode -- typically steel reinforcing bars bonded together by commonly-used steel tie wires.
A ground ring encircling the building consisting of at least 20 feet of bare copper wire 2 AWG or larger.
Rod or pipe electrodes at least 8' long, either pipe or conduit 3/4" minimum or listed copper clad steel ground rod 1/2" diameter minimum.
Plate electrodes consisting of 1/4" thick steel (or .06" thick nonferrous metal) with two square feet of surface exposed to exterior soil.
Other underground metal structures such as underground piping systems, tanks and well casings.
Not permitted to be used as ground electrodes are aluminum structures and gas piping. These items should be bonded to the grounding system but may not be counted as ground electrodes.

Concerning electrode spacing, it is provided that grounding electrodes must be at least six feet apart. If they are closer, they lose effectiveness and it is better, if possible, to have them farther apart than the six-foot minimum. Ground rods should be driven into the drip line from a roof where the soil is damper and more conductive. Beware of well-drained gravel soils where additional measures may be needed."

If you want to read more about grounding of communications equipment look at these two web sites:

http://www.electriciansparadise.com/communications2.html

http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.p...atellite&type=u&title=Satellite Dish (1-12-2K)

 

[wildbill129]

I thought there was a length limit on how long a ground wire could extend from block to ground point. I kind of rememeber it was pretty short something like 6' or so.

Six feet is the minimum, not the maximum, but not for what you are thinking of. That length determination is for tying multiple ground rods together. You can go longer. 30' is a commonly used maximum satellite TV ground wire length, although I find nothing in the NEC 810/820 that specifies a length of ground. A shorter straight run is better, every 90 degree bend degrades the effectiveness of the ground wire.

 

[ryotgz]

A cold water pipe for electrical service is OK, as long as the ground connection is within 5' of the service entrance. A lot of old homes were only grounded this way. New homes always have a ground rod, although there may be a tie from the ground rod to the cold water piping under the house.

Are you sure that is the only ground and there is no ground rod near the panel? Look at your telephone box on the side of your house. There should be a ground from there that ties to your home ground rod if there is one. It might also go to the cold water pipe.

Thanks for the load of information. You are correct. I just checked and what I originally thought was a telephone wire ended up being a ground wire from my cable box outside. The cable company attached it to the splitter and then ran it along the top of the house and attached it to the electric service pole (the one with the meter) that goes down to my basement fuse box. The fuse box then goes to the cold water line right above it.

The kicker is the Dish installer from 2 years ago attached the ground wire to the dish splitter but didn't even connect it to the existing ground in the same cable box. So basically if it got struck the only place would be my receivers.... Luckily after the installer left I split the Dish connection into the cable splitter which unknowingly and indirectly grounded it.

So for the time being I unattached it from the Dish splitter and attached it to the cable splitter where the other ground connected.

 

[wildbill129]

Thanks for the load of information. You are correct. I just checked and what I originally thought was a telephone wire ended up being a ground wire from my cable box outside. The cable company attached it to the splitter and then ran it along the top of the house and attached it to the electric service pole (the one with the meter) that goes down to my basement fuse box. The fuse box then goes to the cold water line right above it.

The kicker is the Dish installer from 2 years ago attached the ground wire to the dish splitter but didn't even connect it to the existing ground in the same cable box. So basically if it got struck the only place would be my receivers.... Luckily after the installer left I split the Dish connection into the cable splitter which unknowingly and indirectly grounded it.

So for the time being I unattached it from the Dish splitter and attached it to the cable splitter where the other ground connected.

The dish could be grounded to that electrical service box or that same ground wire that the cable company used that you are using now. Either way will work fine. Glad you got it figured out!

 

[snuffybob]

Short answer. No. It is not grounded.