EPG Guide Data - daily update time ?

kstuart

kstuart

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Nov 5, 2006
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I am hoping someone knows this (I would be surprised if no one does, given how much details is known about every other satellite data stream). I am asking in this Forum, since it is the Forum frequented by everyone who might know the answer, and is somewhat related to Uplinks.

Previously when I asked this in a short, simple way, some people had no idea what I was asking for, so I will give an example.

Suppose you have a Dish Pass set for "The Joe Blow Show".

The day before, there was no Guide listing information indicating any showing of "The Joe Blow Show" today.

However, the day before, the World Championship of Blah-Blah ended after 5 games (4-1) and so there will not be a sixth game.

So, the Network decides to air an episode of "The Joe Blow Show" instead of tomorrow's scheduled sixth game.

If your ViP622 gets the Guide Listing update, then it will record the show tomorrow.

But if your last update of the EPG was before Dish Network changes the Guide Listing, then it will not record "The Joe Blow Show" - because you will still have the listing of "Sixth Game of the World Championship".

Dish Network offers a 9-day EPG listing. In order for it not to be an 8-day listing the next day, they have to update the Guide and add another day's listings. That has to happen at least once a day.

So, I want to know "at what time is that EPG Guide Listing changed every day" - meaning at what time every day is the EPG streaming data changed?

We know that uplinks and tables are usually changed at roughly 11:30 am Mountain Time on Wednesday.

Software updates are usually spooled at Midnight Mountain Time, often on Thursday/Friday.

So, it seems likely that EPG data streams are updated on a daily basis at a specific time...
 
Jim5506

Jim5506

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If you have a ViP622 it does a forced update every night (the default time is 3am) then it reboots.

You can force a guide update by running a check switch or rebooting the unit (hold power switch in for ~ 10 sec.).

ViP622 has a 9 day guide.
 
C

Clancy

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Apr 3, 2006
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I have been up lately at this hour for the past few weeks with the satellite receiver off and every day at exactly 4 AM ET., the receiver starts up for a short while about 7 minutes then shuts down.
 
kstuart

kstuart

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I have been up lately at this hour for the past few weeks with the satellite receiver off and every day at exactly 4 AM ET., the receiver starts up for a short while about 7 minutes then shuts down.

That's the Menu-8-4 setting - you can have it do that at any time you choose.

That's not the same as when Dish updates the EPG stream.
 
navychop

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Yes, that will yield useful info. Not. Go ahead, smithp, and search on that in the Dish Network Forum- see what results you get.
 
UGAChance

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N-Day(9 Day) Guide changes every 6 hours... 12am GMT, 6am GMT, 12pm GMT, 6pm GMT.
2-Day Guide changes every 4 hours.
PF Present Following changes all the time... Changes get merged into your current PF.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
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Bay Area, CA
I understand you have access to some technical info, but in paper's form ( and not to all of them, right ?).
How about reading some real reports ?;)

Changes in EEPG stream [PDT]:
6/15
3:30:55am: All sections (171063/129291454) of EEPG Ver 17 collected.
5:04:30am: All sections (171063/129185676) of EEPG Ver 18 collected.
11:04:31am: All sections (171063/129255752) of EEPG Ver 19 collected [SDT not changed this time]
5pm: All sections (171063/130070373) of EEPG Ver 20 collected [I missed 5pm window, but did catch the new version later on]
11:04:34pm: All sections (171063/130243849) of EEPG Ver 21 collected [SDT not changed this time]
6/16
3:32:18am: All sections (171063/130243849) of EEPG Ver 22 collected
5:04:35am: All sections (171063/130323041) of EEPG Ver 23 collected
7:32:27am: All sections (171063/130323124) of EEPG Ver 24 collected
9:30:32am: All sections (171063/130320874) of EEPG Ver 25 collected
11:04:35am: All sections (171063/130177240) of EEPG Ver 26 collected
11:31:02am: All sections (171063/130178204) of EEPG Ver 27 collected
1:31:41pm: All sections (171063/130553201) of EEPG Ver 28 collected
3:31:14pm: All sections (171063/131409206) of EEPG Ver 29 collected
5:04:38pm: All sections (171063/131241579) of EEPG Ver 30 collected
5:30:47pm: All sections (171063/131283229) of EEPG Ver 31 collected
11:04:38pm: All sections (171063/131104707) of EEPG Ver 0 collected
6/17
3:31:28am: All sections (171063/131104707) of EEPG Ver 1 collected
5:04:39am: All sections (171063/131009117) of EEPG Ver 2 collected
7:30:39am: All sections (171063/131011667) of EEPG Ver 3 collected
11:04:39am: All sections (171062/130931912) of EEPG Ver 5 collected [v4 is skipped by Dish]
11:32:07am: All sections (171062/130959864) of EEPG Ver 6 collected
1:33:03pm: All sections (171062/131209221) of EEPG Ver 7 collected
3:31:48pm: All sections (171062/131482033) of EEPG Ver 8 collected
5:04:40pm: All sections (171062/131247459) of EEPG Ver 9 collected
5:31:54pm: All sections (171062/131249126) of EEPG Ver 10 collected
11:04:40pm: All sections (171062/131455125) of EEPG Ver 11 collected
6/18
3:32:26am: All sections (171062/131455125) of EEPG Ver 12 collected
5:04:41am: All sections (171062/131341623) of EEPG Ver 13 collected
 
Last edited:
B

bobl

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 11, 2003
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San Francisco Bay Area
Forget updates times for the situation mentioned in post #1. The guide is updated four times a day each six hours but this is irelevant to the described situation because the guide always reflects two programs, the current one and the next one, with the absolute most up-to-date program information. This can be seen when the guide is totally lost. Each channel still reflects two programs per channel as this information is constantly in the stream. Sometimes people will say the guide is only showing the next hour of programs or the next two hours but it's always the next two programs regardless of how long the programs run.

When a game is scheduled but isn't played due to a series ending early the guide may indeed show the game still in the schedule. The nighly update, or a subsequent forced update of the guide using the check switch routine, may or may not correct the situation. If the most recent update of the guide doesn't remove the game and show other programming it's still possible that the guide will be corrected before the game's scheduled start time. As the time approaches the guide is getting continually updated to always show the most up-to-date information for the current program and for the next program. This final update may or may not correct the guide by removing the game and reflecting alternate programming. I have seen a game disappear from the guide shortly before it's scheduled to start and I've seen it not disappear. It's all dependent on how current the guide provider (Tribune?) keeps the information.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
1
Bay Area, CA
Just for technical clarification, let me repeat from other thread:

Well, let me say different way - EEPG updating pretty often, a few times per day;
SW in DVR handles the process correctly, using append/purge function to cut old record and add new.

No reboot required to maintain EEPG DB inside DVR.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
1
Bay Area, CA
N-Day(9 Day) Guide changes every 6 hours... 12am GMT, 6am GMT, 12pm GMT, 6pm GMT.
2-Day Guide changes every 4 hours.
PF Present Following changes all the time... Changes get merged into your current PF.
Time to update your script ? ;)
Look at post#14 for real time EEPG updates.
 
kstuart

kstuart

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
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Northern California
Forget updates times for the situation mentioned in post #1. The guide is updated four times a day each six hours but this is irelevant to the described situation because the guide always reflects two programs, the current one and the next one, with the absolute most up-to-date program information. This can be seen when the guide is totally lost. Each channel still reflects two programs per channel as this information is constantly in the stream. Sometimes people will say the guide is only showing the next hour of programs or the next two hours but it's always the next two programs regardless of how long the programs run.

The listing information for the current show and the next show are broadcast on the transponders themselves.

This dates from when no receiver had a hard drive, so the receiver had to tune to a different transponder to look at the Guide, and the video would so be lost.

So, to allow the receiver to display current Program information and also next program information without losing the video, that information was put onto each transponder. This was called the "Browse" feature, because by pressing right-arrow, you could "browse" what was currently on every channel and the next program as well, all while continuing to watch your sports or news program. (Years ago, people used to subscribe to Dish Network because of that feature.)

Now back to DVRs. I have seen the "No Program Information" situation and what clearly occurs is that the software says "whenever I have no program information, I will access the Browse information on the transponder".

But, from other experiences, it seems clear that the Guide does not update from the Browse information otherwise.

This is demonstrated when a program has a same-day pre-emption. The Guide will record the show using the Name-based timer, but when you play the show, and then press Cancel or Browse to display the Banner, the Banner lists a different program name (typically "Live Election Coverage") which does reflect the actual content (but which is not the content that the timer was supposed to record).

I suspect that Dish has not implemented continuous updating of the hard drive Guide file from the Browse information. For one thing, it would be a large amount of overhead with hundreds of channels, and a possible program change every 5 minutes. So, the receiver would have to be constantly updating the Guide information and constantly checking the dozens of timers against that list. That is a lot to do, just to catch a 0.01% of the time last minute change.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
1
Bay Area, CA
Want to add some technical tidbits:

- 9 days EPG [EEPG] located on only one tpn 18 119W sat ( check you signal !)
- 48 hours extended guide located on each sat but on one tpn ( depend of sat ) - home tpn (same tpn where is SW spooling);
- 2 hours guide spooling on each tpn of each sat.

How often they changing ? Look above for EEPG, others should be checked later.
 
kstuart

kstuart

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
5,206
0
Northern California
There seem to be mysterious constraints and conditions over the Guide updates to the ViP622 HD-DVR.

The Menu-8-4 choice is called "Updates" and when you select it, you get:

Please select a daily time for downloading Program Guide information.

and you can change the time to any time in the 24 hour period.

Today, I was recording movies in the early morning, so I did not get a Guide update today.

So, at 11:06 am, I changed the setting to 11:08 am.

Nothing happened.

So, I changed it to 11:16 am to give it more than 5 minutes in advance.

Nothing happened.

There seems to be some minimum advance notice - even more than 5 minutes - or else it always applies only to the next calendar day.

So, I rebooted the DVR, which worked fine, but it did not update the Guide information.

So, I then did a switch check, and that updated the Guide information (as it always does after a switch check).

It seems that a reboot does not automatically update the Guide information, and that the Menu-8-4 "Updates" procedure includes both a Guide information and a reboot that are done separately.

Also, I wonder whether putting the 622 into standby will always download a Guide information update, or will it always wait for the time specified in the "Updates" screen ?
 

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