Heating for the BUD

[ECruzBUD]

Hi everyone,

Can you help me with suggestions or opinion or informational????

It's Winter!!!! Cold temp. but no snow!!! : - )))

I need help about using my 1st BUD, which is 13 years old.

The 24 inch actuator are is 14 years old and it doesn't like the COLD
temp. and COLD breezy wind. When that happen, it STALLS!!!!
Can't move the dish. So what I've been doing for a solution, which is
a pain in the butt, is to go outside with a metal stick to tap or tap harder
onto the actuator arm gear motor, the back of the actuator arm to move
the dish. And that works as well.

I wish I have some kind of heating system that would heats up the BUD
so that the actuator arm wouldn't be stalled. It likes summer!!!!

But I happen to found which I FORGOT ALL ABUT IT, I bought a heating
system on ebay. And I am wondering whether are you familiar with it and
whether can you help me with it???

I include photos attachment for you to see what I have.

I forgot all about it, this was 5 years ago I bought it on ebay.

And I am wondering if it possible for using it for my BUD.

However, the hearting system does not include the power cord,
and it doesn't include the cable that go from the rare end of the heating
system to go out to the dish.

No power cord and no heating cable line.

I'm hoping a heating cable would be something simple.
Either a magnet or clamp that go onto the back of the BUD.
And it should heats up.

Would Home Depot or Lowes have the type of heating cable
for this heating system I got.

See include photos. What do you think???

The heating system brand make is:

"ViaSat"

Model: 8243A
De-Ice Controller.

Hope all helps with answers.

Thanks,
Eugene Cruz
Seatac, Washington

 

[FaT Air]

Wrap the actuator with heat tape. Wrap glass or foam insulation semi loosely over that. Encase it with poly. AFAIK, it's self regulating, no controller necessary, just plug it into a GFCI outlet.
Alternatively disassemble and clean the old lube out of it and replace with low temp grease.

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

Looks like the OP has a commercial grade de-icing system. It's not intended to heat the actuator but it is intended to keep ice and snow off the reflector.

 

[Cosmo Blatz]

Forget the eBay system! Go with Fat Air's suggestion. What is the condition of the weather boot on the actuator? Is the boot clamped tight to the tube? If water is getting in the tube and freezing, that would be the cause of your problem.

 

[richyrich]

I do know how your satellite breaks (water in tube; then cold till ice)

I even plug in my truck to a "hot blanket" so it will start it is so cold and icy here. My dish usually works through it (it is iced up though; 1/2" on everything); power going high/low; dish won't move; then I know when and why; i would miss my program. Basic maintenence of a motor arm anybody can do is the tights of the weather boot; and a low temp. grease every year (inside the arm, where the power is) ; but the water is allowed into all of these; as drain holes and mounted arm alignment is the installed requirement to allow the water to drain; as well as for it to work when wet/cold. My dish works right through 1/2" ice; but if it is accumulating; it is very heavy compared to just rain on it. Many arms fail because of the extra weight (as well as panels of dish/hail/snow loaders). They strip the nuts after a few years of use and abuse (or wear too much without marine grease); and new nuts (ACME typed arms) are needed to make them work again. Weight will blow the actuator fuse (if it has one); binding ice will do the same thing. A heavy arm like a Saginaw Ball arm does another thing when overloading occurs; it just spins without moving; making you think it is moving. They go "buzz"buzz" but will not move the dish. These need to be fixed; by removing the binds that tie; black ties are ok.

The best dish mover is a chain driven H/H and has cover on the worm gear/powered motor (and is at top of drainage area where water can wind-illy ingress). They also need greasing; but less often fail in "power"stroke or movement area's.

 

[truckracer]

I wrap a heat tape around my motors. Let the thermostat hang free and sense the air temp. Keeps the lube warm and makes them move easy.

 

[mikekohl]

Everyone has good suggestions, and a commercial heater is meant for heating a SOLID dish. Mesh antennas will not conduct heating elements to any useful degree. A heat tape wrapped around your actuator tube would be a cheap band aid solution that can be connected via an extension cord to an indoor power source.
But the main issue is your actuator itself, which was probably designed for a five year lifespan. 14 years and still working is very lucky, but I would not put it through another winter. Your tube is likely to be very worn out and the contacts within the motor itself are probably on their last legs. Consider replacing with a heavy duty 24 inch actuator such as the Ball Screw version of a VENTURE brand unit for a long term future.

 

[Cham]

I've never heated the actuator or anything else, and I have had it working for many years in -35F in winter and up to +100F in the summer... I don't turn the dish unnecessarily in the very cold temps though, I leave it parked where I am most likely to be using it. I also cleaned out the old grease (actuator gears and screw) and replaced the lube with Lubriplate (available at the time) for cold weather. Think there is better "stuff" available now like SuperLube PTFE. I have used the latter on DISEqC motors and works just fine. Comes in a 3oz tube or larger.
Original grease is generally made for warm climates and can "freeze" below 0 F, especially if it has absorbed moisture, or becomes so viscous that it overloads the power supply that runs the actuator.

I have a spare actuator, but if the Von Wiess I am using now ever fails I would likely replace it with the Ball Screw unit Mike suggests.

 

[oldfoggie]

Hi everyone,

Can you help me with suggestions or opinion or informational????

It's Winter!!!! Cold temp. but no snow!!! : - )))

I need help about using my 1st BUD, which is 13 years old.

The 24 inch actuator are is 14 years old and it doesn't like the COLD
temp. and COLD breezy wind. When that happen, it STALLS!!!!
Can't move the dish. So what I've been doing for a solution, which is
a pain in the butt, is to go outside with a metal stick to tap or tap harder
onto the actuator arm gear motor, the back of the actuator arm to move
the dish. And that works as well.

I wish I have some kind of heating system that would heats up the BUD
so that the actuator arm wouldn't be stalled. It likes summer!!!!

But I happen to found which I FORGOT ALL ABUT IT, I bought a heating
system on ebay. And I am wondering whether are you familiar with it and
whether can you help me with it???

I include photos attachment for you to see what I have.

I forgot all about it, this was 5 years ago I bought it on ebay.

And I am wondering if it possible for using it for my BUD.

However, the hearting system does not include the power cord,
and it doesn't include the cable that go from the rare end of the heating
system to go out to the dish.

No power cord and no heating cable line.

I'm hoping a heating cable would be something simple.
Either a magnet or clamp that go onto the back of the BUD.
And it should heats up.

Would Home Depot or Lowes have the type of heating cable
for this heating system I got.

See include photos. What do you think???

The heating system brand make is:

"ViaSat"

Model: 8243A
De-Ice Controller.

Hope all helps with answers.

Thanks,
Eugene Cruz
Seatac, Washington

 

[oldfoggie]

the heat tape works very well, get the shortest one you can find, I use one that is 3 ft long if any longer you have to wrap it around itself which is not good, wrap it on the tube that the worm gear travels in and out, keep the temperature control near the bottom end, use electrical tape to hold it to the tube, get a piece of pipe insulation and cut it the length of the cylinder, the pipe insulation will be split the length of it, close it around the heat tape and secure with electrical tape, make sure the temperature control is inside of the insulation this takes care of 2 problems, if it is hanging outside, the heat tape will run steady and get hot enough to melt any plastic, if it is inside, it will control the temperature and the tape will run only the time needed to keep the arm warm, I have been using mine for many years and it works very well, however, the arm should be removed in the summer time and re-lubricated, then it will last many years

 

[iBoston]

Well, I have ordered some heat tape. I am going to give this a shot. I am tired of the ASC1 showing Limit reached or Error etc. When that happens, it then throws off my ticks on the unit. Frustrating. I ordered the 3 footer as well, and I hope it does the trick. Ill post back my results!

 

[eaglevision993]

I have the same problem with my cheap SuperJack 3636 actuator and the ASC 1. Once it gets cold it shows errors. In my opinion, the ASC1 is a tad to sensitive to higher current cut outs. It would be nice if the software allowed more detailed configuration such as sensitivity on count errors or current draw. Every actuator has different counts per inch and an actuator with 30 cpi will produce count errors faster than a 40cpi actuator if driven at lower speeds.
I have around 100ft wire to the dish so maybe voltage is lost... But I ordered a Venture 36" ball screw actuator to hopefully get better cold weather operation. It is 5x the price of the Superjack incl. shipping to Germany so I really hope to see a difference in accuracy and reliability. It is rated 5 Amps at 1500lbs which should be more than enough for my 10ft mesh dish.

 

[iBoston]

I have the same problem with my cheap SuperJack 3636 actuator and the ASC 1. Once it gets cold it shows errors. In my opinion, the ASC1 is a tad to sensitive to higher current cut outs. It would be nice if the software allowed more detailed configuration such as sensitivity on count errors or current draw. Every actuator has different counts per inch and an actuator with 30 cpi will produce count errors faster than a 40cpi actuator if driven at lower speeds.
I have around 100ft wire to the dish so maybe voltage is lost... But I ordered a Venture 36" ball screw actuator to hopefully get better cold weather operation. It is 5x the price of the Superjack incl. shipping to Germany so I really hope to see a difference in accuracy and reliability. It is rated 5 Amps at 1500lbs which should be more than enough for my 10ft mesh dish.

Let me know how the Venture handles the cold whether. I got the heat tape on it, but i need to wrap it more to add insulation. Haven't gotten to that as of yet.

 

[KE4EST]

Most likely the actuator is moving too slow or not at all so the count timing, is timing out. The ASC1 has the muscle so is probably not the higher current.

 

[iBoston]

Yea, i wish the timing a little more forgiving too. SO far it has never bound up. It just moves slowly.. So, i end up having to click left/ clear the error, click left, clear the error, and do it like 5 or 6 times and it starts moving faster and then the errors stop. Ugh.

 

[Titanium]

I doubt that it is a over-current issue, but rather no counts are received from the sensor within a 1/2 second and the motor voltage times out. We set the time out to a medium time setting to allow for most sensors to pulse and not false flag. I had tested the motor movement error time out on 5 or 6 old analog IRDs and found that most had a 1/2 second interrupt. Often the user was not alerted to the error and it reset automatically. The ASC1 alerts the user to these movement issues and I didn't want to defeat the notice. Also, we felt that if we extended the movement time out, mounts could be damaged if binding/end of arc or require major resync if the sensor failed. Yes, we could set the time-out so smoke pours out of the transformer, but won't...

I suppose if the motor has a very low count per degree of travel, the time-out could be triggered more often . As this cannot be easily incorporated into the GUI for user setting, I made the decision to learn from history and keep the error timeout at 1/2 second to be on the side of safety and preventing damage. This has been a cold weather issue since the beginning of the BUDs. If this can be resolved by heat tape and/or a lower operational temperature lubricant, this will be safer and less likely to stress your mount and motor. Personally, I would be very concerned if my dish hadn't moved a single count in this time period.

 

[eaglevision993]

Hi Titanium,
The
would it be very troublesome to release a beta firmware version which allows a 3/4 second time out? I bet it would work for many with the same problem without risking any damage more than what 1/2 a second does. The lower the count per inch value of the reed sensor on the actuator, the more prone is the system for time out error due to slow movement. I would try the firmware on my own risk if you release one and will give you all feedback on how it works.

Best regards
Benjamin

 

[Titanium]

Not planning any beta releases increasing the count return timeout. This problem is associated with significant inclement weather conditions, choice of motor lubrication or a motor/mount malfunction. Extending an excessive current draw duration will cause premature component failure. If the dish sensor hasn't registered a single open or close in a half second, there is a significant problem. Extending the timeout is not fixing the problem, it is only masking it.

Those of us in the industry for many decades have dealt with this each winter. Nothing unique and can happen with any motor, dish mount, controller or IRD. Some great suggestions in the previous posts may provide proper operation without replacing the actuator.

 

[eaglevision993]

Ok, I hope that the higher quality actuator will take care of at least part of the problem. I don´t want any part of equipment to fail due to safety overrides but the tracking errors in cold weather or on the far east side with almost fully extended actuator are a nuisance. Temperatures below 15-20F will escalate the problem on my system. I will try to run a heavy gauge wire to M1 and M2 as a test just to see if maybe the voltage drop causes this... But I bet my cheap actuator is a major culprit....
Also, on the Orbitron SX, the polar mounts rotation lever is not very long and causing excessive force to return the dish around the east limits of the turning radius.

 

[eaglevision993]

Hi,
just an update concerning the problem described above with the count error. I received my new Venture actuator recently and installed it today. As I hoped, the errors are gone so it was the cheap-China SuperJack actuator causing the trouble. I can go to the east and west limits now without having trouble returning the dish. The new ball screw actuator seems to have the power needed to lift the dish. The suspected ASC 1 limit sensing routune was not the problem here! Quality actuators DO make a difference.