Help put a stop to HD Lite!

goaliebob99

goaliebob99

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Aug 5, 2004
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This is a call to all one every one who wants to put a stop to hdlite! For the past few weeks a group of us got to gether trying to figure out one letter to send to the fcc, and the atsc. We seperated the letters into two. One, that poses a solution of Single bandwith sharing for the sat companies and standards for HDTV! The 2nd one is a shorter version to get your voice heard. We feel strongly that this will help make a diffrence and we want you to help out! Not only are we asking you to send a letter to these guys's but tell them what you really think about HD LITE! Its very obvious that the Sat companies are not listening to us, So we need to let them know that we cant be bought off or forgoten!

To Contact the FCC:
Chairman Kevin J. Martin: KJMWEB@fcc.gov
Commissioner Michael J. Copps: Michael.Copps@fcc.gov
Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: Jonathan.Adelstein@fcc.gov
Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate: dtaylortateweb@fcc.gov
Commissioner Robert McDowell: Robert.McDowell@fcc.gov
OR fccinfo@fcc.gov

OR Call them @
1-888-225-5322 (1-888-CALL FCC) Voice: toll-free
1-888-835-5322 (1-888-TELL FCC) TTY: toll-free
1-866-418-0232 FAX: toll-free
(202) 418-2830 FAX on Demand

To Contact The ATSC:
Mark Richer, ATSC President mricher@atsc.org
Jerry Whitaker, ATSC Vice President of Standards Development jwhitaker@atsc.org
OR
1750 K Street NW
Suite 1200
Washington, DC 20006
202-872-9160 – Office
202-872-9161 – Fax

Letter #1

Dear FCC/ATSC:

I am emailing to inform you of a growing problem within the satellite community. This issue was discovered some time ago for satellite provider DirecTV with Echostar/Dish Network joining in about six months ago. Both providers are now filtering many of their High Definition signals to a lower resolution than ATSC standards (ie 1280x1080i). Many have come to refer to this vertical filtering as “HD Lite”. HDTV signals should be broadcast at the defined ATSC standards for HDTV broadcasts; either 1920x1080 i/p or 1280x720p.


Currently DirecTV filters their HD channels to 1280X1080I while the provider supplies the programming at 1920X1080I. As an example, HBO is one channel subject to this filtration. Dish Network currently sends only part of its national HD at its true HD resolution of 1920X1080I. In addition, CBS and NBC Local into Local networks are vertically filtered to a lower quality than their over the air counterparts. The signals vary from 1280X1080I to 1440X1080I on Dish Network’s distribution system. Dish Network also provides its Voom Lineup in 1280 X 1080I while Rainbow Media (the programming originator) provides this service for at full resolution, ie 1920X1080I. We do not believe this was the intent of the FCC and congress.


Consumers have noticed this reduction in picture quality as it is noticeably inferior to true 1920x1080i broadcasts. What it lacks is the WOW factor, and that’s the price you pay for the filtration. What it really does is remove fine detail and lowers the required bandwidth to transmit the channel. Many consumers visit sites like avsforum.com and satelliteguys.us, complaining of poor picture quality from their supposed HD channels. Consumers are growing angrier about this issue and would like results. Within this open discussion we have came up with some solutions that we would like the FCC to act on in the interest of consumers.

We want to see the FCC create a mandate that all content providers, regardless of transmission method (OTA, Cable, Satellite, Broadband) deliver HD broadcasts in their original format; either 720p or 1080i with no vertical filtering. Our displays are improving and the era of 1080p television sets is well underway. We are already into the second generation of sets supporting 1080p resolution. The picture quality differences between “HD Lite” and full resolution HD is readily apparent on these displays. It is also quite obvious on 1080i and 720p sets.


This approach is taken to minimize the bandwidth footprint on their satellites. Satellite bandwidth is a finite resource and the investment for a satellite is substantial. We are also seeing the beginnings of transmission of HD Local into Local service via satellite. Because of the nature of the business, Dish Network and DirecTV are duplicating all of the local channels across their constellations of satellites. This is an extremely poor use of that finite bandwidth and a poor usage of that finite resource. Cable and Broadband providers need only carry the appropriate local channels for their area. Even spot beam distribution on satellite carries multiple markets of stations that is above and beyond the requirements of Cable and Broadband.


Given the inherent bandwidth constraints and additional carriage requirements for satellite distribution, we suggest that the pooling of resources for delivery of local channels be strongly considered. Rather than duplicating each local market’s lineup of channels, a pooled set of satellites could be used by both content providers.

This will have the advantage of bringing full coverage to all local markets for Standard Definition LiL channels and immediately increase the transponder space available for High Definition LiL. Much of the United States has issues receiving HD channels over the air. By pooling resources this will speed up the availability of HD LiL delivered via satellite. Pooling resources has been a very effective technique with C-Band and it is possible to build a common solution to handle DBS.

In the end, both sides gain from this scenario. The satellite providers no longer have to spend precious resources duplicating OTA channels with their infrastructures and consumers have their LiL HD stations delivered on a faster timeline than would otherwise be possible. A side benefit of this approach is that the customers satellite antenna will not need to be changed out, which has happened on several occasions with both DirecTV and Dish Network.

Sincerely,

Your Name HERE


Letter # 2 (short Version)
Dear FCC/ATSC:

I am emailing to inform you of a growing problem within the satellite community. This issue was discovered some time ago with both DirecTV and Echostar/Dish Network. Both providers are now lowering most of their High Definition signal resolutions to far below that of the ATSC standards (ie 1280x1080i). Many users have come to refer to this vertical filtering as “HD Lite”. HDTV signals should ONLY be broadcast at the defined ATSC standards for HDTV broadcasts; either 1920x1080 i/p or 1280x720p.


Currently DirecTV lowers their HD signals to 1280x1080i while the provider is suppling the same programming to them at 1920x1080i; and is intended to reach the end user as such. As an example, HBO is one channel subject to this lowering of resolution. Dish Network currently sends only some of its national HD at its true HD resolution of 1920x1080i.

In addition, CBS and NBC Local into Local networks are vertically filtered to a lower quality than their over the air counterparts. The signals vary from 1280x1080i to 1440x1080i via Dish Network’s system. Dish Network also provides its Voom package at 1280x1080i while Rainbow Media (the programming originator) provides this service at full resolution (ie 1920x1080i).

We do not believe this was the intent of the FCC and congress, nor the expectation of the programming provider that supplies its signals to cable and satellite.

We want the FCC create a mandate, that all companies, regardless of their transmission method, be it OTA, cable, satellite, or broadband, be required by law to deliver HD broadcasts in their original format; either 720p or 1080i with no lowering of resolution to the end users.
We are not getting what is advertised and paid for. Our displays are improving very rapidly, as we are already into the second generation of displays supporting 1080p resolution, yet they are regressing, and being allowed to do so.

In the end, this law would be the best for consumers and ultimately both sides would gain from this scenario by supplying consumers with what they are told they are paying for, and ultimately avoiding the needless litigation or class action suits that will result if this is allowed to continued.

Sincerely,
Your Name HERE
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
You might also want to post the contact info for the Federal Trade Commision as well as the Better Business Bureaus for Colorado and where ever Direct TV is HQ'd.
 
goaliebob99

goaliebob99

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Aug 5, 2004
14,482
518
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Ask and you shall recive FTC,

Phone: toll-free 1-877-FTC-HELP (382-4357)
Regular mail:
Federal Trade Commission
CRC-240
Washington, D.C. 20580

Electronically: If you have a complaint about a particular company or organization, use our secure complaint form.


BBB

http://complaint.bbb.org/

Colorado & Wyoming: 800-564-0371
By Fax All areas: 970-221-1239

BBB of South Central California, Inc.
P.O. Box 1311
Bakersfield, CA 93302-1311
Phone: 805-322-2074
FAX: 805-322-8318

 
digiblur

digiblur

SatelliteGuys Master
Jun 8, 2005
14,190
4
Louisiana
I doubt you'll see this "pooling" of resources anytime soon as E* and D* use totally different modulation schemes, encryption schemes, etc.
 
goaliebob99

goaliebob99

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Aug 5, 2004
14,482
518
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digiblur said:
I doubt you'll see this "pooling" of resources anytime soon as E* and D* use totally different modulation schemes, encryption schemes, etc.
Modulation schemes are actually the same, D* just uses diffrent tables compared to DVB, that dish uses. You can actually tune in to D* with a PC FTA card, only certin ones though :) That would be up to the FCC to determin or the two compaines to scratch there heads and come up with one system that works for all :)
 
goaliebob99

goaliebob99

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Aug 5, 2004
14,482
518
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Dissapointed with day one :(

I just posted this over at AVS, Im a little dissapointed with the lack of participation...

19.2 is the max.. We didn't include bitrates because at the current E* bitrates there channels are fine.. But, D* needs to get something done over there. It was about 5~6 people who worked on this. We all agreed that the bitrates were fine as they were. 19.2 is max for ATSC transmission for OTA, not for sat. Also, with mpg4 those bitrates will be lower. Mind you this is E* bitrates we were talking about 10~14mbps per channel, Compared to D* 5~9 mbps. Don't worry too much about bitrates we will bring that up when the time is right, right now we want to make sure that everyone is aware about hd lite and get the word out to people who can make a difference. Instead of complaining about what isn't in the letter, add it to your own personalized letter and tell them how you feel as thats whats going to get things done.. I thought I would have seen more activity and discussion about this. But it appears that Everyone wants HD Lite to be a standard. The only way to get this changed is to actually get off your ass and do something about it!

But yet many of you will just pass this off as another rant instead of doing something about it. Then, a few years from now you will still be complaining because nothing was done. Well that's because you all did nothing to when you had the chance to yell, bitch, pillage everyone and anyone who could make a difference. So Copy and paste, add your own little bit and send to all the email addresses above. otherwise I Don't want to hear you bitch about hdlite one bit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
smile.gif


The more we keep this in there faces, the more they will get tired of hearing from us. the more people that WE Educate, the more that we will have to make a difference. The more we Educate, The more tired they will be about hearing about it and the sooner they will give us what we want. The more people who knows about this, the more masses will call for a change. Tell everyone and anyone about this. Tell them the truth about what HD WAS, WHAT IT COULD BE, AND WHAT CRAP WERE GETTING!!!!! Tell them that the sat companies can go to hell until we get the quality we deserve and expect!! until this happens expect more of the same. Either your in or your with the fools that think oh hdlite is ok. Just because it looks better than SDTV doesn't mean that IT should be called High Def! High Def is this pristine looking picture that would make any guy cry because his eyes are looking at the most beautiful eyecandy in the world that he could marry his tv.

So, are you in? Spread the word!
 
digiblur

digiblur

SatelliteGuys Master
Jun 8, 2005
14,190
4
Louisiana
goaliebob99 said:
Modulation schemes are actually the same, D* just uses diffrent tables compared to DVB, that dish uses. You can actually tune in to D* with a PC FTA card, only certin ones though :) That would be up to the FCC to determin or the two compaines to scratch there heads and come up with one system that works for all :)

I don't keep up with D* hardware but I didn't know they could receive 8PSK.
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Apr 7, 2004
35,252
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SatelliteGuystonfieldville, U.S.A.
As the Citizen Member co-chair of the Cable Choice Now! Coalition, I sent e-mail and fax correspondence to the following:

Chairman Kevin J. Martin
Commissioner Michael J. Copps
Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein
Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate
Commissioner Robert McDowell
Mark Richer, ATSC President
Jerry Whitaker, ATSC Vice President of Standards Development
 
kokomogator

kokomogator

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 9, 2006
251
0
I'm in......keep up the fight. People basically like to bitch but are too lazy to do anything. Nice to see some people still have a little passion left in this complacent world we now live in! You go guy!:up :up :up :up :up
 
kokomogator

kokomogator

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 9, 2006
251
0
Just an FYI

Thought you would be interested to know that almost everyone that I emailed deleted the email without reading.....our wonderful government in action! Ones that did read (I guess) never responded. Ever get the feeling you are fighting an uphill battle????? :( :( :(
 
HCI

HCI

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 19, 2005
2,580
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land of the ice and snow
kokomogator said:
Thought you would be interested to know that almost everyone that I emailed deleted the email without reading.....our wonderful government in action! Ones that did read (I guess) never responded. Ever get the feeling you are fighting an uphill battle????? :( :( :(

How do you know they deleted the email?

The government has way more important stuff to do than listen to someone whining about the resolution on a tv show should be higher. :rolleyes:
 
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charper1

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
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I'm Nationwide
If email is in a preview pane mode it is possible to read an email without it being set to "read" status. It all depends on how much time delay is set on the "mark as read" or if it is set at all. See attached that shows it set to OFF. I can read any email in the preview pane and it will NEVER set to read automatically and when I delete the email it will send out the "deleted without being read" message. This is why I keep mine set to ON. I am NOT a big fan of this feature ever being turned off, along with send read receipts, but before you accuse anyone, this might be what is happening.
 

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kokomogator

kokomogator

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 9, 2006
251
0
The Tate said:
I've seen some that gives you the option to give a reply back to the sender. So you can read the email and they would never know.

True but still does not change the fact that I did not get a SINGLE response, read or not.
 
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