HH Motor Install, Frustration and Recommendations?

[SatelliteAV]

For years I have recommended the SG2100 motor to FTAers. I haven't purchased one in 7 or 8 years, but based on previous experience I recommended. Yesterday, I visited a new FTAer's home, Mark (ESA1178) to help him set-up his new motorized system. No, I usually don't do house calls, but thought that it would be a good test of the microHD and a break from the office for a few hours. Typically I can assemble and align a HH motor using USALS in less than a half hour......

Set the mast Plumb with my iPhone, drone the motor to the Southern satellite 121w which is .2 degrees off center and peaked the top of the arc. Drove the dish to 72w and quality disappeared only to determine that the ends of the arc needed to pulled in. The Latitude setting on the motor mount was correct (but so hard to read as the markings are stamped and not raised like on the original models). Thought that the dish elevation settings were incorrect, so adjusted them over several sweeps and still could not correct. Then thought that maybe the motor Zero position was off, so drove the motor to zero position using the manual drive button on the motor and did a master reset on the motor. What is up with the stamping of markings on the metal? It is near impossible to read these critical markings. The scales used to be raised and easily read, but now they are stamped and the paint coating almost obscures the markings. Had to remove the dish just to read zero on the motor azimuth scale.

The positions on the arc still would not line up using USALS. The Latitude setting on the motor mount was correct and the dish elevation setting was close, but more than I expected.

Mark pulled out a 8inch level and we found my iPhone measurement to be slightly off, so we again corrected the mast to be plumb with the mechanical level. When we placed a level on the back of the motor plate we found that the bottom of the bracket was almost 3 degrees off! The motor mount was slightly flattened throwing the motor setting off. We shimmed the bottom of the mast mount to bring the motor mount to be plum and level with the mast. When did the motor mount material get paper thin and so easily be deformed? Motor mounts need to be heavy duty and not easily deformed!

Once again we aimed for 121w at the top of the arc, but still would not line up on the ends of the arc. When using USALS, the motor would miss all satellite positions and would need to be driven several degrees to compensate. Was it the microHD? Swapped out to Mark's DSR200 and had the same problem, so not related to the microHD..... WHEW!!!!

Wow, the dreaded 2 degree motor assembly error! What more could happen with this simple motor aiming?

Five hours after starting the simple motor alignment, I confessed to Mark that I admit defeat and gave up. For those of you that know me, this is very shocking. I am tenacious and do not give up easily!

We abandoned USALS and I programmed 8 or so satellites using DiSEqC 1.2. The motor is tracking the arc using DiSEqC 1.2 and we blind scanned the satellites. Mark is happy with the channels that we programmed, but now wants to buy a good motor for his GEOSATpro 90cm dish with the 42mm (1 5/8") mount and enjoy the benefits of a well built motor and using USALS.

What motor sold today has the best build quality, heavy duty mount bracket and 42mm tube? I can never again recommend the SG2100 if this is the new norm for build quality of the product. I am leery to recommend any motor. I thought to recommend the SG9150b. Is the only problem with the SG9150b the calculation error of 30 minus declination vs the incorrect manual instructions?

Suggestions for Mark?

 

[phlatwound]

I own and have in operation a STAB HH90, SG2100 and a DG-380 (until lightning took the 380 out on Monday). All have/had 42mm shafts and 90cm offsets installed.

Of these 3 I would go with the 380, it has the best hardware and bracket, but I am happy with all of them (my 2100 is an older model, at least 5 years old).

USALS on all 3 of them has been spot on, I only use diseqc 1.2 for 30W, since it is out of range for USALS from my location.

I've never had one of the SG9120s (is that the same as the "SG9150"? from Galaxy/WSI but IIRC some people here have them and are pleased with them.

 

[Magic Static]

My biggest problem with the KU motors is power consumption. My DVB cards won't handle the load very well. Two of the four DVB cards I tried to run the SG9120b can't drive them. Only the SkyWalkers could. I'm finding some error in USALS positioning from one end of the arc to the other in the SG9120b.Maybe a couple of degrees. DiSEqC 1.2 worked fine for me though. I often wished for a quality built motor, externally or self powered, say something in the $300~$500 range and was worth it.My externally powered SG2100 run great for years using USALS but was getting to much slop in it and I replaced it with the SG9120b. I'm pulling Ku with my C-Band rigs now and not using the little KU motors much at all right now. I'll eventually get back to fiddlin with that dish/motor and fine tune it a bit. The SkyWalker 1 runs it now.

 

[rv1pop]

Oh-Oh. I was going to ask for a recommendation for a motor to go with my new microHD + the new dish kit I will be ordering. I hope we get a resolution soon.

If you can not locate a good one, does this mean you will spec AND import one that will work properly????

 

[pwrsurge]

For years I have recommended the SG2100 motor to FTAers. I haven't purchased one in 7 or 8 years, but based on previous experience I recommended. Yesterday, I visited a new FTAer's home, Mark (ESA1178) to help him set-up his new motorized system. No, I usually don't do house calls, but thought that it would be a good test of the microHD and a break from the office for a few hours. Typically I can assemble and align a HH motor using USALS in less than a half hour......

Set the mast Plumb with my iPhone, drone the motor to the Southern satellite 121w which is .2 degrees off center and peaked the top of the arc. Drove the dish to 72w and quality disappeared only to determine that the ends of the arc needed to pulled in. The Latitude setting on the motor mount was correct (but so hard to read as the markings are stamped and not raised like on the original models). Thought that the dish elevation settings were incorrect, so adjusted them over several sweeps and still could not correct. Then thought that maybe the motor Zero position was off, so drove the motor to zero position using the manual drive button on the motor and did a master reset on the motor. What is up with the stamping of markings on the metal? It is near impossible to read these critical markings. The scales used to be raised and easily read, but now they are stamped and the paint coating almost obscures the markings. Had to remove the dish just to read zero on the motor azimuth scale.

The best way if you don't have a satellite meter that supports USALS is to first connect the motor to your satellite receiver and set your site's latitude and longitude in the receiver's USALS setup. Then, drive the motor to your nearest true south satellite and once it arrives, turn off your receiver with the back switch. Your motor is now pointed to where it should be pointing for your true south satellite so with your satellite meter connected directly to the LNBF, peak an active transponder on your true south satellite by turning the entire loosened motor assembly on your post. Once you peak your true south, tighten the motor u-bolts a bit and check your alignment by turning on your receiver again and trying various satellites using USALS.

If you are still not tracking the arc, check to make sure your motor elevation and dish declination are set correctly then try to peak your true south again. Be careful not to overtighten the U brackets on the motor as they will eventually start crushing the J-pipe and/or bending the brackets. As long as you can't turn the dish on the pole when pushing it, it's tight enough. If the dish is mounted in a location with frequent high winds, it's a good idea to drive one or two self tapping screws through the bracket and j-pipe in order to prevent the dish from eventually losing alignment.


Regards,

PwrSurge


P. S. Don't use your iphone as a bubble level as it's not really accurate when near any metallic surface. A classic bubble level or inclinometer is best. You could even use the post level that comes with one of your GeoSatPro dishes

 

[Magic Static]

As to the bracket being flimsy on the SG2100. yikes! 5 and dime junk. I took care of it this way...
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/258050-beefing-up-sg2100-bracket.html

 

[turbosat]

Quality goes down, price goes up! I would have to agree with jody on the DG380, I got mine about 3yrs back, and haven't had to work on it yet. Then, at least, it had reasonably thick metal on the mount, good strong bolts, took me less than 30minutes to set on the arc, though it was my first H-H motor. I thought it was hydraulic at first, it is so quiet!

 

[SatelliteAV]

Remember Guys, I have wrote a manual or two on how to successfully install HH motors. We have previously distributed and provided warranty support for Stab and also had developed our own brand of GEOSATpro USALS / DiSEqC 1.2 motors.

I definitely know how they work and how to install them. Probably have installed over 300 motors through the years. The mast was not crushed, but the motor mount was flattening just by tightening the u-bolts! This is not an issue with not knowing how to install, just disgust and disappointment with a brand which I believed to be a good motor. Now I learn by experience that the unit is no longer a quality product.

What I am looking for is your opinions on the best HH motor from your experience. Thank you phlatwound, Magic Static and Turbosat for sharing your observations and opinions.

No rv1pop. We imported a quality motor for several years, but the majority of buyers are more influenced by the price than the quality of build. Motors are not something that I want my team to support as motors can be a tremendous customer surrport black hole...... I am looking for something sold by another vendor which I could endorse for our customers and recommend without hesitation....

 

[SatelliteAV]

As to the bracket being flimsy on the SG2100. yikes! 5 and dime junk. I took care of it this way...
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/258050-beefing-up-sg2100-bracket.html

You did it right! The way that it should be manufactured in the first place.

 

[Tron]

I like my SG-9120Bs. I have had two of them installed for about a year now, no problems other than the initial adjustment needed for backlash. Seems every motor I've used has required this adjustment at some point.

The backlash adjustment on these motors is far easier to do than on the SG-2100s.

 

[WhyMe1]

What I am looking for is your opinions on the best HH motor from your experience.

I had a STAB HH120 that was awesome. Never missed a position and ran like a champ for years. That would be my best HH I've ever used. Does anyone in the US sell STAB anymore? I've got 4-5 Chinese HH motors in the basement that are garbage. I have a SG2100 on the roof now that doesn't work well using USALS, and using diseqc it keeps moving 2-3 degrees every week or 2. I've tried several receivers with this motor and it happens with all of them. I used to go on the roof and do a reset but not anymore. I wish we could get some of the products here that are sold overseas. This looks interesting:

Gibertini 90cm /1.0 meter polar mount | eBay

 

[Mikey11]

this is why i always say to people, it is NOT the pole that needs to be level/plumb....its the MOTOR BRACKET that needs to be level/plumb....just because the pole is level/plumb, that does not guarantee that the motors bracket will be level/plumb....

after i aim the southern satellite i use a small level to make sure the motors bracket is level in all directions....each side of the bracket, across the top of the bracket, across the bottom of the bracket, and straight out from the pole towards the dish, then i make adjustments to the pole until the motor bracket is 100% level in all of these directions,

after doing this i re-aim the southern satellite and check the bracket again,

now back to your original problem....it sounds to me like your motor is aimed too high or too low, this will cause USALS to drive the dish past, or stop before a satellite....the problem will be noticeably worse toward the ends of the arc....

you should be able to tell if the motor is set too high or too low depending on the direction you need to drive the dish using Diseqc 1.2 to compensate for the failure of the USALS alignment....

 

[brex2001]

Sorry you & Mark had to find this out the hard way. I apologize for the inconvenience(no wonder the ebay seller had these priced low!)

I hadn't ever mounted that sg2100 to a pole - it had been just collecting dust on the back porch. Wow.

I'm also interested in what motor is best choice for USALS these days. Will be watching this thread Brian.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Sorry you & Mark had to find this out the hard way. I apologize for the inconvenience(no wonder the ebay seller had these priced low!)

I hadn't ever mounted that sg2100 to a pole - it had been just collecting dust on the back porch. Wow.

I'm also interested in what motor is best choice for USALS these days. Will be watching this thread Brian.

I agree, the motor was new and unused. No way that you would have known! I understand that a batch of SG2100 were sold with this assembly issue. I'll look for the thread and see how people fixed them.

My point is..... this for all practical reasons is a new motor, but with problems like these right out of the box. Has SG2100 build quality has returned on current stock?

 

[Magic Static]

I have had a bunch of them. Three replaced under warranty. But if I was to buy one today it would probably be this one,
Dish Movers - DMSI - products new home - SG2100 DiSEqC motor The price is right And The best one I had was a DMS

 

[SatelliteAV]

I have had a bunch of them. Three replaced under warranty. But if I was to buy one today it would probably be this one

Sounds like you had the same 2 degree issue with the SG2100? Do you think that this was just a batch issue? Is the bracket heavier metal now? Are the markings once again deeply stamped like on the older original versions?

 

[SatelliteAV]

this is why i always say to people, it is NOT the pole that needs to be level/plumb....its the MOTOR BRACKET that needs to be level/plumb....just because the pole is level/plumb, that does not guarantee that the motors bracket will be level/plumb....

after i aim the southern satellite i use a small level to make sure the motors bracket is level in all directions....each side of the bracket, across the top of the bracket, across the bottom of the bracket, and straight out from the pole towards the dish, then i make adjustments to the pole until the motor bracket is 100% level in all of these directions,

after doing this i re-aim the southern satellite and check the bracket again,

now back to your original problem....it sounds to me like your motor is aimed too high or too low, this will cause USALS to drive the dish past, or stop before a satellite....the problem will be noticeably worse toward the ends of the arc....

you should be able to tell if the motor is set too high or too low depending on the direction you need to drive the dish using Diseqc 1.2 to compensate for the failure of the USALS alignment....

The motor will not track in USALS mode due to a documented issue with the motor assembly. Tracks the arc perfectly using DiSEqC 1.2. I can assure you that the motor is level, plumb and on arc. Using DiSEqC 1.2 results in high SQ signals across the entire arc that cannot be increased by panning the motor or tilting the dish. Switch to USALS and reaim to the USALS calculated position and the entire arc is out of alignment. Recalculate the DiSEqC positions and they also will now be out of alignment.

I just cannot recommend a product that has thin metal that is already tweaked right out of the box and tracking calculation issues using the method that I swear by, USALS. Maybe we just where installing one from a bad batch, but I feel sorry for the newbie that would have to struggle with this hardware with the misconception that it should work perfectly because it is new and just out of a box. It is tough enough for a newbie to aim a dish, let alone a motor. Then throw this at them?

 

[Magic Static]

Sounds like you had the same 2 degree issue with the SG2100? Do you think that this was just a batch issue? Is the bracket heavier metal now? Are the markings once again deeply stamped like on the older original versions?

The 2 degree issue is with the current SG9120b I'm using. This may be perception problem as I set it up originally with DiSEqC 1.2. I just started using it lately with another receiver and was using USALS. I found the east end of the arc way off with USALS. I havn't looked into that situation yet. I havn't bought a new SG2100 in years. The 9120b does have a heavier bracket. It's a different size and shape than the 2100 bracket. Can't reinforce this one like the SG2100. The SG9120b suffered memory loss like the SG2100's at times which required resets. I attribute this to power supply issues. LNB + Motor power demand is right on the edge of most receivers capabilities. Add lengthy cable runs and switches, you get a perfect brew for problems, weird ones too. I ended all those issues when I put an external power source on the SG2100.

 

[brentb636]

I can recommend highly the STAB HH90, HH120 and the DG380 sold from Sadoun. The hh120 and dg-380 have driven a 4 foot dish ( and a 1M dish, too) impeccably. My HH90 drove a 90cm dish just fine, as well. Accurate and quick to setup. I've only had one SG-2100 and it never was a good USALS performer. I gave it away for parts to another member a couple years ago.

 

[phlatwound]

I have read and seen pics of at least 2 varieties of SG2100s, a one-button and a 2-button style.

My old 2100 is a one-button, with the degree markings deeply cast into the housing. It has a DMSI sticker on it.

The DG-380 bracket is approximately 25% (hillbilly eyeball micrometer) thicker than either my 2100 or the HH90.