High Def Disc unit sales - The Digital Bits

tnsprin

tnsprin

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You call profile 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 "well crafted plans, carefully conceived"?????

Well conceived no. But everyone knew about them before the first Blu-Ray 1.0 players came to market in 2006.
 
teachsac

teachsac

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Well conceived no. But everyone knew about them before the first Blu-Ray 1.0 players came to market in 2006.

I would disagree there. I would say the majority of average home users didn't know. A lot of people are still confused.

S~
 
BobMurdoch

BobMurdoch

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NO ONE on the consumer level is aware of the fact that their expensive BluRay players won't work with all the interactive features.

You may have a few uber geeks who are aware of the different profiles, but there will be a lot of grumbling when people find out that their $500 players won't play picture in picture features.....
 
chicagofilms

chicagofilms

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Jun 15, 2004
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The whole 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 crying is so old already. The situation is FAR better than the first year or two of DVD.

DVD:
most early players could not do DTS.
Many could not do RSDL.
Many choked on newer copy protections - and there was no firmware update available.
There were many issues with DVD in the early days.

The fact is you will always be able to watch a movie with Blu-Ray. If you buy a geeked out 2.0 title, you can still watch the film fine on a 1.0 player. You just won't have access to all the extras. If you need to chat to a buddy on your tv while watching a movie, buy a 2.0 player.

And for those that praise Toshiba for the wonderful job they did on HD-DVD, they were the kings of screwing up DVD!
Toshiba DVD Player Class Action Full Notice
Toshiba SD-2108 DVD Player
 
Zookster

Zookster

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Dec 19, 2004
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The whole 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 crying is so old already. The situation is FAR better than the first year or two of DVD.

DVD:
most early players could not do DTS.
Many could not do RSDL.
Many choked on newer copy protections - and there was no firmware update available.
There were many issues with DVD in the early days.

The fact is you will always be able to watch a movie with Blu-Ray. If you buy a geeked out 2.0 title, you can still watch the film fine on a 1.0 player. You just won't have access to all the extras. If you need to chat to a buddy on your tv while watching a movie, buy a 2.0 player.

And for those that praise Toshiba for the wonderful job they did on HD-DVD, they were the kings of screwing up DVD!
Toshiba DVD Player Class Action Full Notice
Toshiba SD-2108 DVD Player

Great post and links! :up

I was actually one of those that got a class action lawsuit letter, but Toshiba had already just given me a full cash refund for their player that died while out of warranty for labor (90 days). At least under threat of a lawsuit they offered good customer service.

Regarding problems with early DVD players, I also seem to recall my first player didn't play scratched discs or discs with MP3 or other file types or certain kinds of recordable DVD media. Just like TVs, computers, digital cameras, etc., the features on any home electronics device is always evolving and every consumer knows that, so I agree that the fuss about profiles is unnecessarily outliving the end of the format war.
 
D

diogen

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Apr 16, 2007
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I also seem to recall my first player didn't play scratched discs or discs with MP3 or other file types...
DVD:
most early players could not do DTS.

Joe can be proud of his preachings... :)

FYI, DVD-Video standard:
- does NOT have DTS mandatory, only PCM and AC3 is;
- has no mention of MP3. No DVD ever had or will have an MP3 sound track;
- "other file types" are not allowed in the DVD-Video standard.

All the DVD player problems of the 90s have to do with player manufacturers not following specs.
The same as the first BD+ titles from FOX not playable on LG and Samsung players.

Bottom line: A DVD player made to specs in 1997 will be able to show all features of a DVD released today.

Blu-ray is unique in terms of being the first to break this tradition with "profiling".

Whether you want to call this f*ck-up "design of a genius" or "we are neither the first nor alone" is up to you.

Diogen.
 
teamerickson

teamerickson

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Jan 20, 2006
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The whole 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 crying is so old already.
You're right. Blu has done a wonderful job bringing their perfect product to market. The confusion they're about to create, when the new profiles are released, is not their fault. The consumer should've known better. Just another reason HD DVD was better. But that's ok I'll just continue to spend money on the corporate run and bought format that was crammed down my throat! I as the consumer will do whatever they tell me.
 
Last edited:
allargon

allargon

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Aug 2, 2007
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Austin, TX
You call profile 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 "well crafted plans, carefully conceived"?????

I do. Carefully conceived to triple dip on hardware. 1.0--hit the early adopters, 1.1--hit the early mid adopters and the early adopters AGAIN, 2.0--hit the mass market, the early mid adopters AGAIN and the early adopters AGAIN, 3.0 = replace SACD, DVD-A and CD's, step 4 = PROFIT! :hungry:
 
mike123abc

mike123abc

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Sep 25, 2003
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There is no excuse for 1.0. 1.1 should have been the base. Consumers hooking up to internet for 2.0 is dubious value right now. Yeah a % will be interested in it, but I bet most HD-DVD owners did not hook up to the internet for content. Maybe in a few years, it needs wireless, most people probably do not have ethernet to the living room.
 
teachsac

teachsac

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Joe can be proud of his preachings... :)

FYI, DVD-Video standard:
- does NOT have DTS mandatory, only PCM and AC3 is;
- has no mention of MP3. No DVD ever had or will have an MP3 sound track;
- "other file types" are not allowed in the DVD-Video standard.

All the DVD player problems of the 90s have to do with player manufacturers not following specs.
The same as the first BD+ titles from FOX not playable on LG and Samsung players.

Bottom line: A DVD player made to specs in 1997 will be able to show all features of a DVD released today.

Blu-ray is unique in terms of being the first to break this tradition with "profiling".

Whether you want to call this f*ck-up "design of a genius" or "we are neither the first nor alone" is up to you.

Diogen.

I was waiting for you to post this ;) as you have in the past.

Not playing the movie isn't the issue (chicagofilms), it's consumers buying a movie that touts Pip or online interactivity and not being able to access those features. That is the problem. Especially when consumers are buying 1.0 Sony's, Pioneers, Samsungs.

S~
 
Zookster

Zookster

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Dec 19, 2004
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I seriously doubt many people will be buying upgraded versions of BD players just to get the new profile, certainly not like I upgraded my DVD player so it could play scratched discs I was renting or MP3s. The distinctions in terms of functionality between profiles are pretty small in comparison. I for one could personally care less about 1.1 or 2.0 features.
 
navychop

navychop

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Sooo- any guesses as to what the sales ratio will be this Friday? Any HD DVD close out sales going on? I assume the discs themselves are still plentiful.
 
JoeSp

JoeSp

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Joe can be proud of his preachings... :)

FYI, DVD-Video standard:
- does NOT have DTS mandatory, only PCM and AC3 is;
- has no mention of MP3. No DVD ever had or will have an MP3 sound track;
- "other file types" are not allowed in the DVD-Video standard.

All the DVD player problems of the 90s have to do with player manufacturers not following specs.
The same as the first BD+ titles from FOX not playable on LG and Samsung players.

Bottom line: A DVD player made to specs in 1997 will be able to show all features of a DVD released today.

Blu-ray is unique in terms of being the first to break this tradition with "profiling".

Whether you want to call this f*ck-up "design of a genius" or "we are neither the first nor alone" is up to you.

Diogen.

I tend to believe that these multiple formats for BD were not orignally on the books but were rushed to the market because HD-DVD was already on the move to the market and BD was just too far behind to play on even terms. I have heard others say this and I believe that in order for BD to really take off the BDA needs a 2.0 date just like the 1.1 date. They need to set a firm date and require that all manufacturers provide 2.0 out of the box or a firmware upgrade path for BD players for the consumer. That way, you could buy a less expensive BD 1.1 player and know that if you wanted 2.0 functionallity you could achieve it simply with a firmware update and the purchase of a mem card.
 
navychop

navychop

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Why? Just for simplicity's sake? Many products are sold with varying degrees of features. Right now, most people won't connect their BD player to the Internet. They simply have nothing in their homes to plug into that Ethernet port. And this situation isn't going to change anytime soon.
 
N

nonrev

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Dec 2, 2007
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That way, you could buy a less expensive BD 1.1 player and know that if you wanted 2.0 functionallity you could achieve it simply with a firmware update and the purchase of a mem card.
I didn't relize that a firmware update could mysteriously install an ethernet port on the back of a 1.1 player and make it 2.0, and besides who wants to go thru all that crap dealing with things like mem cards & such.

All the upcoming confusion will seriously thwart BD sales. Warner Bros made a stupid short sited decision to pick HD DVD based on all the facts and figures, but like a *itch when it could not get another studio to come over decided to stab Toshiba in the back. Now look what consumers are left with:

1.0 1.1 2.0
 
teamerickson

teamerickson

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I seriously doubt many people will be buying upgraded versions of BD players just to get the new profile, certainly not like I upgraded my DVD player so it could play scratched discs I was renting or MP3s. The distinctions in terms of functionality between profiles are pretty small in comparison. I for one could personally care less about 1.1 or 2.0 features.
I will. I want to enjoy all the extras of my favorite movies.
 
D

diogen

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Apr 16, 2007
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I seriously doubt many people will be buying upgraded versions of BD players just to get the new profile...
I think you are right.
The distinctions in terms of functionality between profiles are pretty small...
I wouldn't call it small but irrelevant to most, yes...
I for one could personally care less about 1.1 or 2.0 features.
And so will many others.

This isn't the point.
The war is over. BD won. If they manage to sell this idea that "BonusView is available only for those that have a
better player and BD-Live only to those having the best player" - it will be a bigger achievement than beating HD DVD.
I don't think this is going to fly. HD, having lost, can at least have fun in pointing out what a mess BD got itself into with profiling.
To those knowing everything about this - 2-3% at best - this will mean nothing. For the rest it might be a big deal. HD will try to make sure they know...

Diogen.
 
navychop

navychop

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Yes, people are so confused by some cars having automatic transmissions, and some manual. Oh, and all of them should come with sun roofs because a few use them. And how some cameras use film, others memory cards- oh, and there's such a confusing assortment of memory cards. And it's so confusing about the different outputs on DVD players.

Gee, there are so many differences in so many products sold, maybe we ought to just retire from it all.
 

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