HomePlug built into the 622, How cool is that?

Cyclone

Proud Stiff Member
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Sep 9, 2003
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Maryland
I started working for a BPL technology company back in December, and so all year long I have been working HomePlug devices. I found them remarkably useful and quite up to the task of high speed internetworking within a household. When the 622 Ethernet plans were being discussed, I had thought about writing a primer how to use HomePlug devices (We call those Power Line modems "PLIDs" for Power Line interface devices) to connect your 622 to the router in your house for internet connectivity. I figured that you would have a PLID at your 622, another by your router, and this would save you from having to run a Cat5 cable.

Sure Wi-Fi adapters exist and can provide connectivity. But they use a shared spectrum with Cordless Phones, Microwave Ovens, and most importantly your laptops. The constant stream of 802.11 traffic that your 622 might generate could leave most other apps starved for bandwidth. Plus if you are in a townhouse, condo/apt, or even close houses, you share that spectrum with your neighbors too. I have aways found that when I want to transfer large amounts of data between my laptop and other hosts on my home net, that its better to hook up the 100Mbps cat5e than to wait on Wifi to get the job done. Sure I'm supposed to be gettting 54Mbps, But its never even close to 50% of the speed to my 100Mbps hardwired connection.

So I was going to write up a nice little "how to do" about configuring the HomePlug PLIDs for the home network (its about as simple as giving two or more PLIDS the same password so they can talk to each other). But I was completely shocked to see that the 622 has the HomePlug chip built right in. I had suspected that it was possible when DishComm was made available which allowed the receivers to talk to each other to share a phone line. But I kinda dismissed that as just a "phone jack" feature. Surely Dish hadn't had to foresight to actually put a high speed BPL chip into their receivers.

This is another Brilliant move on Dish Network's part. This allows their VIP receivers to use the existing household electrical wiring for networking. No need for the installers to run Cat5e around the house, no worries about bad 802.11 characteristics. This really was the right call. I would not be surprised to see installers start to carry around those $30 PLIDs with their standard installation when Dish starts to more fully utilize the internet for its services. And to think that Verizon and at&t are using MOCA.

There is the drawback; Battery backups and Surge protectors which can block out the frequencies used to communicate over the power lines. The Dish Receivers and the PLIDs will usually have to be plugged directly into an outlet. I will however state that we do use regular old "power strips" here all the time for PLIDs. I kinda use the power strips as a "HUB" for the PLIDs. Cheap power strips seem to have little or no impact on throughput for these HomePlug PLIDs.

The one thing that I'm not sure how the 622 is going to handle is the provisioning of the PLID. On the tech chat last night, they said that you just plug the PLID in by your router and the 622 will automatically configure it for use. Now that sounds alarms in my head. Because that would mean that the 622 has some way of setting the password (actually its called the "NEK" Network encryption key) on the PLID, or setting the 622 to match the one already in use by the PLID. Now you can remotely change the NEK on a homeplug device, you need to know that device's "DEK" device encryption key (think of it as a password unique to each individual HomePlug device). My fear is that if you have PLIDs already functioning in your house, will the 622 start to reconfigure them to its use and possibly screw up your network? Upon further reflection the default NEK for EKS 1 on a HomePlug device is usually "HomePlug". Perhaps Dish is counting on that being the default value on any PLID purchased. That would allow them to communicate out of the box.

I will have to investigate this further.

Update: Upon further investigation (see a post below) I have confirmed that the 622 is indeed using the default NEK of "HomePlug" for EKS 1. This way Dish remains compatible with existing HomePlug devices and poses no threat any existing setup. But this is a security hole since your LAN is unsecured at any power outlet inside (or outside your home).

The Home Networking Installation Guide from Dish can be found here.

I checked it out, but it does not see to answer my questions about how exactly the 622 gets to use the same NEK as the PLID.

Just some FYI Tidbits:

HomePlug 1.0 = 14Mbps Compatible with 622
HomePlug 1.1 = 85Mbps Compatible with 622
HomePlug AV = 200 Mbps Known to not be compatible with 622 (or any other HomePlug 1.x devices)

DEK = Device Encryption Key - A password that is unique to each HomePlug 1.x device. Its usually printed on a label on the PLID along with the MAC address.
EKS = Encryption Key Select - Numeric value from 0 - 8 Devices have 8 keys, EKS0 is reserved. Each key is common to a logical network. (Kinda like a VLAN).
NEK = Network Encryption Key - The encrypt key for a EKS. (an ascii value). There is a NEK for each EKS.

If the NEK on EKS 1 matches between any two or more homeplug devices, then they can communicate to each other. Same thing for any of the other EKSs. If the NEK configured for EKS 3 on homeplug device #1 matches the same NEK for EKS 3 home plug device #2, then they can talk.

Example:

Dish 622 has EKS 1 set with a NEK value of "HomePlug". (standard default on most HomePlug devices)
PLID has its EKS 1 set to a NEK value of "HomePlug".
They should both be able to see each other and communicate. If they do not, then your PLID may have its NEK for EKS 1 set to something other than "HomePlug". Your PLID likey came with a "power line utility" software package. You can use that to set the "network name" (ie NEK) to "HomePlug" which will change the PLIDs EKS1 NEK to "HomePlug" and now the 622 and PLID should be able to communicate.

Clear as mud right?

Useful Info:
Netgear XE102 Users Guide 14Mbps model
Netgear XE103 Users Guide 85Mbps model Note XE104 looks the same as the XE103, but has 4 ethernet ports.
Belkin F5D4070 Power Line adapter a 14Mbps Adapter
Asoka Powerline modem - A 85Mbps PLID.
Intellon - They make the Chipset that is used by most of these HomePlug devices. Good reading info here.
 
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There is the drawback; Battery backups and Surge protectors which can block out the frequencies used to communicate over the power lines.
They actually mentioned during the tech forum on ch 101 last night that the 622 has "pretty good protection" built into it already. Seems they thought these through more than anyone guessed ! They knew that HomePlug wouldn't work well or properly when using a surge protection device so they incorporated some in.
 
Great overview

I started working for a BPL technology company back in December, and so all year long I have been working HomePlug devices. I found them remarkably useful and quite up to the task of high speed internetworking within a household. When the 622 Ethernet plans were being discussed, I had though about writing a primer how to use HomePlug devices (We call those Power Line modems "PLIDs" for Power Line interface devices) to connect your 622 to the router in your house to internet connectivity. I figured that you would have a PLID at your 622, another by your router, and this would save you from having to run a Cat5 cable.

Sure Wi-Fi adapters exist and can provide connectivity. But they use a shared spectrum with Cordless Phones, Microwave Ovens, and most importantly your laptops. The constant stream of 802.11 traffic that your 622 might generate could leave most other apps starved for bandwidth. Plus if you are in a townhouse, condo/apt, or even close houses, you share that spectrum with your neighbors too. I have aways found that when I want to transfer large amounts of data between my laptop and other hosts on my home net, that its better to hook up the 100Mbps cat5e than to wait on Wifi to get the job done. Sure I'm supposed to be gettting 54Mbps, But its never even close to 50% of the speed to my 100Mbps hardwired connection.

So I was going to write up a nice little "how to do" about configuring the HomePlug PLIDs for the home network (its about as simple as giving two or more PLIDS the same password so they can talk to each other). But I was completely shocked to see that the 622 has the HomePlug chip built right in. I had suspected that it was possible when DishComm was made available which allowed the receivers to talk to each other to share a phone line. But I kinda dismissed that as just a "phone jack" feature. Surely Dish hadn't had to foresight to actually put a high speed BPL chip into their receivers.

This is another Brilliant move on Dish Network's part. This allows their VIP receivers to use the existing household electrical wiring for networking. No need for the installers to run Cat5e around the house, no worries about bad 802.11 characteristics. This really was the right call. I would not be surprised to see installers start to carry around those $30 PLIDs with their standard installation when Dish starts to more fully utilize the internet for its services. And to think that Verizon and at&t are using MOCA.

There is the drawback; Battery backups and Surge protectors which can block out the frequencies used to communicate over the power lines. The Dish Receivers and the PLIDs will usually have to be plugged directly into an outlet. I will however state that we do use regular old "power strips" here all the time for PLIDs. I kinda use them as a "HUB" for them. Cheap power strips seem to have little or no impact on throughput for these HomePlug PLIDs.

The one thing that I'm not sure how the 622 is going to handle is the provisioning of the PLID. On the tech chat last night, they said that you just plug the PLID in by your router and the 622 will automatically configure it for use. Now that sounds alarms in my head. Because that would mean that the 622 has some way of setting the password (actually its called the "NEK" Network encryption key) on the PLID, or setting the 622 to match the one already in use by the PLID. Now you can remotely change the NEK on a homeplug device, you need to know that device's "DEK" device encryption key (think of it as a password unique to each individual HomePlug device). My fear is that if you have PLIDs already functioning in your house, will the 622 start to reconfigure them to its use and possibly screw up your network? Upon further reflection the default NEK for EKS 1 on a HomePlug device is usually "HomePlug". Perhaps Dish is counting on that being the default value on any PLID purchased. That would allow them to communicate out of the box.

There are lot of Homeplug devices deployed in our BPL footprint, and I saw plenty of 622's installed in customer's house when I was part of the initial installation crews last spring. I'd hate to see what might happen if the 622 had the power to over ride our HomePlug settings. The PLIDs that we use a pretty much off the shelf hardware and should not any more unique than the kind that Dish is claiming to be able to change.

I will have to investigate this further.

The Home Networking Installation Guide from Dish can be found here.

I checked it out, but it does not see to answer my questions about how exactly the 622 gets to use the same NEK as the PLID.

Just some FYI Tidbits:

HomePlug 1.0 = 14Mbps Compatible with 622
HomePlug 1.1 = 85Mbps Likely Compatible with 622
HomePlug AV = 200 Mbps Known not to be compatible with 622 (or any other HomePlug 1.x devices)

DEK = Device Encryption Key - A password that unique to each HomePlug 1.x device.
EKS = Encryption Key Select - Devices have 8 keys. Each key is common to a logical network. (Kinda like a VLAN).
NEK = Network Encryption Key - The encrypt key for a EKS. (an ascii value). There is a NEK for each EKS.

If the NEK on EKS 1 matches between any two or more homeplug devices, then they can communicate to each other. Same thing for any of the other EKSs. If the NEK configured for EKS 3 on homeplug device #1 matches the same NEK for EKS 3 home plug device #2, then they can talk.

Clear as mud right?
Glad to hear that it is probably compatible with 1.1 but what about the turbo devices which are advertised at 54mbs?

I just ordered a wireless bridge so I believe I am going to try this solution instead especially if it can carry a higher speed. One last question; does this system interfere with the x10 systems for lighting and home control?

JC
 
All of the HomePlug Turbo devices that I have seen are the 1.1 variety, ie 85Mbps.
 
Ok, I have my 2 receivers seeing each other on DishComm. So you're saying that if I add a HomePlug to Ethernet adapter to the router upstairs, both should see the DHCP server in the router and talk with out adding wire/wireless to the 622's?

That would be cool. I got my WRT54GS doing one of them as a wireless bridge, but it was a right royal PITA.

The DLink I got for upstairs and the non-linksys firmware didn't negotiate the WPA key right so I had to turn off the WPA stuff.

If I can find a cheap HomePlug to Ethernet adapter, that would make life sweet.

Thanks for the very informative post, Cyclone :)

LER
 
Ok, I have my 2 receivers seeing each other on DishComm. So you're saying that if I add a HomePlug to Ethernet adapter to the router upstairs, both should see the DHCP server in the router and talk with out adding wire/wireless to the 622's?

That sounds right. Just be careful. I've been looking over NetGear's page to see what their PowerLine product do. Their HomePlugAV (not compatible with 622) is touted for Video and HD. So I'm sure the unsuspecting will jump on that one, only to be disappointed by its incompatibility. I've got some PLIDs at home that I'm going to try out tonight. So I should have some details to post tomorrow instead of the educated guesses that I have today.
 
Thanks, Cyclone. I'll await your post tomorrow :)

(I get to futz with this stuff on the weekends :) )

Thanks again for opening my eyes to something I didn't know was there.

(And, if I had known, would have saved a BOATLOAD of frustration Saturday).
 
They actually mentioned during the tech forum on ch 101 last night that the 622 has "pretty good protection" built into it already. Seems they thought these through more than anyone guessed ! They knew that HomePlug wouldn't work well or properly when using a surge protection device so they incorporated some in.

I'm not sure exactly what that could mean though because surge arrestors that cost less than about $300 use MOVs to absorb surges. These MOVs eventually give out when their maximum absorption is reached and they will fail to protect or actually catch fire. If the 622 uses MOVs, what happens when they give out?

Maybe the power supply has been constructed to handle a wide range of load and maybe it will shunt a surge into the ground wire but I'm going to remain skeptical that the 622 has any kind of serious surge protection. Maybe the HomePlug implementation provides some of that supposed protection? Cyclone? Is this possible?

My BS detector is sounding yellow alert.
 
HomePlug is just a layer two protocol (like ethernet), it does not have any Surge protection qualities. That would be something separate that Dish would have engineered into the product.
 
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Ok, I tried some things out tonight.

First the good news. This does appear to work as I expected. The 622 does default to a NEK of "HomePlug" for EKS 1. This matches up with the default to all of the HomePlug PLIDs (ie power line adapters) that I have read about.

So Dish's claim that the 622 will work out of the box with a power line adapter is true. Well as long as you don't ever change the network name (ie NEK) to something other than "HomePlug". The only trouble is that most of these power line adapter manufactures recommend changing this network name for security purposes. So if you pick up a 2nd hand PLID or have set it up for your PCs in the past, you will need to reset it to factory defaults, or just change its network name back to "HomePlug" (case sensitive).

This does post a security risk at your home. This essentially requires that you have a HomePlug device set to default connected to your router. So in other words, if someone takes a PLID and hooks it up a power outlet on the outside of your house, they will be on your lan. You could lock down your router to only give out IP addresses to known MAC address, but if someone just manually sets their IP to be on your subnet, then they are still in. It might give Dish get a headache to do this, but they might want to put the capability to change the NEK into the 622 to restore security to the HomePlug environment.

I tried two PLIDs and both saw the 622 when they were set to "HomePlug". I did see one thing that was a disappointment. It appears that the 622 is a HomePlug 1.0 device. Ie it will only support up to 14Mbps speeds instead of the 85Mbps speeds that I was hoping for if it had a HomePlug 1.1 chip. If you look at the first pick from the Netgear Power Line utility (All the manufacturers get this utility from Intellon, the Asoka Utility is the same tool as well as the one that comes with the Aztek modem). You will notice that my connection between the HomePlug 1.1 PLIDs is 85Mbps, while the connection to the 622 is under 10Mbps (that rate rises and falls normally, plus my 622 is plugged into a heavy duty powerstrip)

Now this will still be more than enough for many Broadband connections, but with FiOS and Cable offering greater than 10Mbps in some areas, this could have been utilitzed. Not to mention if DVR to DVR networking is ever supported.

But I guess the real test was, will the 622 lease an IP address from my router with only a single PLID in the picture. The answer was yes, and it was very easy too.

I had my 622 connected to my router via the ethernet port for the past few days. The IP address that it leased was 192.168.5.27. So I disconnected the ethernet port from the router. I then plugged in the PLID to an ethernet port on the router, and into an outlet. I then went to the 622's network setup and told it to reset the connection. Sure as heck, it pulled a new IP address. 192.168.5.29. If you look at the MAC address shown on the Dish screen, you'll notice that it matches up to the MAC address listed in the Power line utility. 00:08:89:95:3F:A0.

Oh, and if you are wondering if two 622 will be able to both lease IPs from just the single PLID connected to the router, that answer is yes. If fact my PC which is connected to the aztek plid for sniffing purposes has leased an ip on that interface.

Something else that is interesting for you geeks out there. Just recently wireshark began to support the HomePlug protocol, so you can sniff out its packets just like ethernet. :D Notice the echostar MAC addresses in this trace picture that I've attached. The Hewlet Packard MAC is my PC, the Asoka is the PLID that I'm using to sniff the network, the Aztek is the PLID that the router is connected to, and the Echostar MAC is of course the 622.

In the 2nd trace picture, I've captured the DHCP lease sequence from the 622. In the 3rd pic I have a capture from when the 622 does a search when I enter the DishComm screen.
 

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Excellent info! Thanks for explanation and screen shots of everything.

When I saw the tech chat I was thinking "that's awesome!" Can't get any simpler than that. No wireless stuff to deal with. Plug in and go!
 
....That would be cool. I got my WRT54GS doing one of them as a wireless bridge, but it was a right royal PITA.

The DLink I got for upstairs and the non-linksys firmware didn't negotiate the WPA key right so I had to turn off the WPA stuff.

If I can find a cheap HomePlug to Ethernet adapter, that would make life sweet.

Thanks for the very informative post, Cyclone :)

LER

Since I only dabble in network / computer stuff, those are my concerns too configuring a wireless bridge/ adapter. Sounds like the PLID route is the way to go.

Thanks Cyclone!! :up

Any reasonably priced HomePlug compatible surge protectors out there? My big concern is plugging my 622's directly into outlets.
 
If you trust the circuit breaker in a cheap power strip than you can use that. I use them everyday with PLIDs.

I will say that I thought about two things now that I've slept on it.

1. If we can get the HomePlug Password for the 622, it can be configured remotely to work on a secured homeplug network. Usually this password is on a sticker along with its homeplug MAC address. My 622 is tucked in ticket so I was not able to peak for this sticker. If anyone can take a look at their 622, look for a MAC and password.

2. Since this is a HomePlug 1.0 device, forget all the stuff I wrote about EKSs. HomePlug 1.0 only uses EKS 1, the other EKS 2 - 8 are for HomePlug 1.1 which does not apply here.
 
Looking at the NetGear XE103. One "reviewer" said PLID's do not work across circuit breakers in a panel ie. from one circuit to another- is this true?

All the other reviewers said the device worked great.
 
I only have Macs at home. Will any of these PLIDs work on a Mac only network? The info I see on NetGear XE103 only mentions Windows compatibility. Maybe a PC is only needed for setup and then it will work after that.
 
PLIDs do work across circuit breakers. There are some circumstances were if the house has different phases that they can not communicate between phases. But that is rare if I understand it correctly.

MACs: PLIDs are network devices and just bridge between ethernet and homeplug. So they are complete un-aware of your OS. I use them with Windows and Linux all the time. They will work with Apples. The only thing that won't work is that the utility software is written for windows. So if you wanted to change the network password or monitor connections, then that part won't work.
 
Cyclone,
Thanks for all the info on this. Now to find a HomePlug to Ethernet adapter that's not that expensive.

I really appreciate all the techie details (I'm a tech weenie).

Thanks again,
LER
 
Ok, I have my 2 receivers seeing each other on DishComm. So you're saying that if I add a HomePlug to Ethernet adapter to the router upstairs, both should see the DHCP server in the router and talk with out adding wire/wireless to the 622's?

That would be cool. I got my WRT54GS doing one of them as a wireless bridge, but it was a right royal PITA.

The DLink I got for upstairs and the non-linksys firmware didn't negotiate the WPA key right so I had to turn off the WPA stuff.

If I can find a cheap HomePlug to Ethernet adapter, that would make life sweet.

Thanks for the very informative post, Cyclone :)

LER

This is exactly what mine is doing. I posted about it elsewhere, in here
 
Great information Cyclone. Thanks for all of the clarification.

Question - what kind of cable will run between the 622 and the power outlet? Will this be something that will be provided by Dish? Pretty sure I don't have an interface cable that looks like that in my box of cables :)
 
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