Hopper Plus new hardware??

navychop

navychop

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So the Plus will add Roku-esk features, with some DVR recording allowed, 4 ATSC 3 OTA tuners, Locast support, FTA support and bring back and enhance the ability to order pizza and other delivery items, with native Peapod support. And some really sharp games. And a great interface to access Amazon as well as Wal-Mart. And don’t forget, the stock trading app. Supplements the support for 500 different banking apps. AND, of course, provide a full service high speed secure Internet browser with features to allow Dish to determine and fulfill your future needs. All while maintaining the current great popcorn production feature!

And the wireless Joey will be enhanced with a wire. Works better that way.

Some of this spaghetti should stick to the wall!

:devilish
 
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NashGuy

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Photos of the new DISH hardware -- the Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 -- have now been unveiled in their FCC filings given that it's been over 6 months since the filings were made. Dave Zatz has posted the pics and updated his info over at his blog:

My final guess is that the Hopper Plus (which DISH describes as a "whole-home DVR accessory") will connect directly to a Hopper 3 or Hopper Duo DVR (via USB 3.0) and then the Hopper Plus will connect to the TV via HDMI. (When paired with the Hopper Plus, the underlying Hopper DVR will no longer connect directly to the TV.) This Hopper Plus accessory will upgrade the user experience by delivering a new UI running atop Google's Android TV operating system with access to thousands of apps from their Google Play store. Wonder if there will be an additional rental charge for the Hopper Plus or if DISH will just throw one in for free with each compatible Hopper DVR in order to make their service more compelling and able to better retain subs?

Aside from the Hopper Plus, there will be two new model Joeys, the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. Both will run the new Android TV-powered UI and apps. But unlike the Hopper Plus, they will also extend service from an underlying Hopper DVR to an additional TV. I'm sure all three devices will offer 4K HDR and perhaps Dolby Atmos audio too. These will be the first Joey devices to support HDR, from what I gather.

The main reason for all three devices, though, is to instantly offer integrated access to tons of streaming apps, allowing DISH viewers to watch all their TV through one device, their DISH box.

Wonder if anyone has any inside info on when this new hardware will become available? At this point, I would expect them to be unveiled at CES 2022 on Jan. 5. DISH Network is listed as a featured exhibitor for the event. And CES was the venue where they unveiled the Hopper 3 back in 2016.
 
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ethanlerma

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My final guess is that the Hopper Plus (which DISH describes as a "whole-home DVR accessory") will connect directly to a Hopper 3 or Hopper Duo DVR (via USB 3.0) and then the Hopper Plus will connect to the TV via HDMI. (When paired with the Hopper Plus, the underlying Hopper DVR will no longer connect directly to the TV.) This Hopper Plus accessory will upgrade the user experience by delivering a new UI running atop Google's Android TV operating system with access to thousands of apps from their Google Play store.
Check this out. Its from the Hopper plus filing, that on the monitor is 100% Google TV. What I find stranger is no Hopper's in the vicinity, does it not need one for testing purposes or will it also be a standalone streaming device?
 
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NashGuy

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Check this out. Its from the Hopper plus filing, that on the monitor is 100% Google TV. What I find stranger is no Hopper's in the vicinity, does it not need one for testing purposes or will it also be a standalone streaming device?
Couldn't see what you were talking about at first, but in the photo labeled "AC Line Conducted (Front)," yeah, the screen on the right does appear to be showing a typical Android TV settings menu.

I strongly expect that these devices will run what Google calls "Android TV Operator Tier," which is a version of Android TV that Google licenses to pay TV operators, allowing them to heavily customize the home screen UI as opposed to using the standard Google-designed home screen found on Google TV/Android TV retail devices such as the Chromecast with Google TV or Nvidia Shield TV. So while the settings menu may have the typical Android TV look, I expect that the main home screen UI will looks pretty similar to what we see on the current Hopper 3 and Joey. Or, who knows, maybe it will be an all-new DISH-designed UI. In either case, the UI and the streaming apps will run on the Hopper Plus itself.

As to your question about no Hopper being seen in the test photos, I expect that you may be able to boot up the Hopper Plus without it being connected to a Hopper DVR but may not allow any kind of viewing (even streaming) without first connecting it to a Hopper since it will rely on the Hopper's tuners and hard drive for live and recorded satellite TV. I guess it's possible that the Hopper Plus could act as a standalone streaming device (if it has its own wifi and doesn't rely on the Hopper's internet connection) but I really don't see DISH distributing it for such a use-case. They have no interest in encouraging people to use streaming apps but NOT also watch DISH. And this won't be a device sold at retail to just anyone. It'll be distributed only to their satellite TV customers who have a Hopper DVR, hence the name Hopper Plus.
 
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NashGuy

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Hope that it includes a trade in
I'm sure it's a big cost savings for DISH to roll out the Hopper Plus as opposed to an all-new Hopper 4. This way, instead of having customers asking to replace their existing Hopper 3 with another big box full of tuners, hard drive, etc., they can just ship them a low-cost add-on box that plugs into it. And my guess is that it will also work with the Hopper Duo too. Hopefully it will work with earlier generation Hopper DVRs too, upgrading their feature set and extending their useful lifespan rather than replacing them.

Of course, I don't expect the Hopper Plus to add any additional tuners or storage capacity; if you want to improve those aspects of your Hopper DVR, you'd need to swap it out for a better model Hopper. But if I'm right, the Hopper Plus will give you access to Android TV apps and Google Assistant, the ability to cast content to your TV from other devices (i.e. Chromecast built-in), and hopefully a faster, sleeker UI.

The Hopper 3 is already, in many ways, the most powerful pay TV box available in the US. But it trails Comcast's X1 in terms of available apps. Hopper Plus could vault it to the front with even more apps than X1 has.
 
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navychop

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I suspect the Plus will have limits on apps. Why give it access to all or most Android apps? Hook up a controller for first person shooters?
 
TheKrell

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To hell with this gnarly contraption. Will they brick it like they did my Sling Adapter? :mad: Do you unplug the HDMI from the H3 and plug it into the H+ instead? They can't get all the bugs out of the H3, let alone an H3 with this odd-ball attached!

What I'd like is to buy a Joey 4 so I can turn it on and off at will.
 
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NashGuy

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I suspect the Plus will have limits on apps. Why give it access to all or most Android apps? Hook up a controller for first person shooters?
The way it typically works with Android TV Operator Tier devices from pay TV operators is that the device has access to *almost* every app in the Google Play app store that it's powerful enough to run and for which it has the necessary content security/DRM in place (e.g. Widevine). Neither of those should be an issue for a brand new device like this. Google has no interest in trying to keep any apps off of any given device; in fact, it's in their interest for devices to have as full access as possible. I don't think they allow their licensees (in this case, DISH) to pick and choose which apps the device can access (assuming the device meets a given app provider's minimum specifications).

BUT there are a few major apps that the developer/provider doesn't allow just any Android TV device to access from Google Play but rather requires a specific agreement to be in place with the pay TV operator. Netflix is definitely one of those and Amazon Prime Video may be as well. But neither of those should be an issue, given that DISH already has deals in place for those apps on the Hopper 3. So there's no question that those two companies will allow DISH's new hardware to access the Android TV versions of their app. Hulu, Disney+, and the ESPN app may fall into the "needs-special-approval" category too, I'm not sure. I know that AT&T/DirecTV Stream's Android TV Operator Tier box didn't have access to the Hulu app from Google Play until recently and didn't have the Prime Video app for its first several months either. I don't know of any cases where ViacomCBS (Paramount+, Showtime, BET+) or Comcast/NBCU (Peacock) has withheld any of their Android TV apps from particular devices, but I suppose it's possible. I know that they're all available on the DirecTV Stream box. Given that all those companies already have channel carriage deals in place with DISH, and already have working Android TV apps ready to go, I expect all of them to be available for the new hardware on day one.

The main one I question whether we'd see on the Hopper Plus and Joey 4 at launch is the Apple TV app. It's still not available on the DirecTV Stream box. The first pay TV operator platform that Apple has struck a deal with to supply their Apple TV app is Comcast's X1, but it hasn't yet arrived.
 
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jerryez

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I have a Roku Ultra. Why do I need a Hopper Plus? My Hopper does not have any extra USB ports. Is my HDMI cable going thru the Hopper Plus?
 
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NashGuy

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I have a Roku Ultra. Why do I need a Hopper Plus? My Hopper does not have any extra USB ports. Is my HDMI cable going thru the Hopper Plus?
Assuming my guesses about the Hopper Plus are correct (it's all based on publicly available info, I don't have any inside dirt), the reason you'd want a Hopper Plus are so that you could do all your TV viewing via one box, one input, with one remote control. And, as I say, it's possible that the Hopper Plus will provider a new, faster UI than what any of the existing Hopper DVRs offer.

But if you're OK with your existing Hopper as-is, and you don't mind switching remotes/inputs/devices to jump back and forth between cable TV (Hopper) and streaming apps (Roku), then there wouldn't be any reason to get the Hopper Plus.

The Hopper Plus only has one HDMI port and one USB port (along with an optical audio port and power plug-in). My expectation is that it will connect directly to the TV via HDMI and to the Hopper via USB. The back panel photos I've seen of the Hopper, Hopper 2 and Hopper 3 all show two USB ports. I don't know for sure about the Hopper Duo but I *think* it has 2 as well. If this is how it works, then the HDMI port on the Hopper would be unused.
 
TheKrell

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I have a Roku Ultra. Why do I need a Hopper Plus?
You probably don't. It's a matter of convenience; you won't have to change the input on your TV.
My Hopper does not have any extra USB ports.
All 3 are occupied? If so, USB hubs work. I have a 6TB Seagate with a 2-port hub with my AirTV adapter plugged into that. It works even when I crank up my 1.5TB EHD and the 6TB disk disappears.
Is my HDMI cable going thru the Hopper Plus?
We may be guessing, but I think the answer is "Yes". Why else would it be there?
 
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jackson85

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Joeys yes. New Hoppers no.

All’s I can say is stay tuned. It’s going to be a exciting time to be a dish customer. :)


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I have a 4K Joey, hoping that there would be 4K programming. My question, if there is a new Joey coming soon or in the future, should I keep the 4K Joey or consider getting the New Joey???
 
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nyrfan1

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Photos of the new DISH hardware -- the Hopper Plus, Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4 -- have now been unveiled in their FCC filings given that it's been over 6 months since the filings were made. Dave Zatz has posted the pics and updated his info over at his blog:

My final guess is that the Hopper Plus (which DISH describes as a "whole-home DVR accessory") will connect directly to a Hopper 3 or Hopper Duo DVR (via USB 3.0) and then the Hopper Plus will connect to the TV via HDMI. (When paired with the Hopper Plus, the underlying Hopper DVR will no longer connect directly to the TV.) This Hopper Plus accessory will upgrade the user experience by delivering a new UI running atop Google's Android TV operating system with access to thousands of apps from their Google Play store. Wonder if there will be an additional rental charge for the Hopper Plus or if DISH will just throw one in for free with each compatible Hopper DVR in order to make their service more compelling and able to better retain subs?

Aside from the Hopper Plus, there will be two new model Joeys, the Joey 4 and Wireless Joey 4. Both will run the new Android TV-powered UI and apps. But unlike the Hopper Plus, they will also extend service from an underlying Hopper DVR to an additional TV. I'm sure all three devices will offer 4K HDR and perhaps Dolby Atmos audio too. These will be the first Joey devices to support HDR, from what I gather.

The main reason for all three devices, though, is to instantly offer integrated access to tons of streaming apps, allowing DISH viewers to watch all their TV through one device, their DISH box.

Wonder if anyone has any inside info on when this new hardware will become available? At this point, I would expect them to be unveiled at CES 2022 on Jan. 5. DISH Network is listed as a featured exhibitor for the event. And CES was the venue where they unveiled the Hopper 3 back in 2016.
How about PIP (picture in picture!!!)
 
D

DishSubLA

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OK Andorid TV seems likely. And yes, the tier for MVPD's is most likely what Dish will implement. My guess as to what the H3+ is this:

It's all about viewing programming from the INTERNET. As you recall, I was whining about only being able to watch ONE live streaming channel on the entire Hopper 3 network (channels such as some of the HBO/Cinemax channels and Stadium and BNC as examples). I think this is a step in the direction of Dish leveraging the less expensive and superior PQ of providing more LIVE streaming channel via the internet instead of its satellites. Dish will certainly need its sats for rural users for the time being and until fast internet comes to rural America, but Dish is clearly planning a long-term future via the internet.

I think the H3+ will likely replace the Hopper 3's current MoCA 2.0 with its much faster 10Gbps MoCA 3.0 that can allow for MULTIPLE LIVE streaming channels and Dish On Demand streaming and traditional on-demand services such as Netflix, etc., and it can handle/provide for MULTIPLE streams all at the same time to be viewed at the H3 and all clients, along with any satellite channels in the delivery and MoCA 3.0 net, as well. The only real limitation in speed or bandwidth would be your ISP's speed, and right now some ISPs are providing anywhere from 200Mbps to 400Mbps or even 1Gbps, and that leaves the MoCA 3.0 plenty of room for satellite channel delivery to the Joeys. In fact, there will be plenty of room on the MoCA 3.0 for just about anything extra, such as any necessary commands or other data to or from the H3 for whatever features it may provide.

I notice the H3+ with S/PDIF and HDMI out, so that suggests that this module can be connected to any OTHER TV than at an H3, and the H3+ is capable of doing its job also functioning as something of a Hopper with PIP features or Hopper like experience at a second or 3rd, etc. TV, or like a much more brainier Joey that also adds enhancements to the entire Hopper network.

I remember Charlie Ergen having said at a Quarterly Conference some years ago, "If I were building Dish Network today, I would not be investing in satellites."

I think the H3+ is Dish's move away from sats in very LONG road ahead--of course, sats are needed for the time being and years to come, but given the new push to get decent speeds out to rural areas, I don't think Dish sats will be needed by the end of this decade, and Dish may even make the bold move, before this decade is out, to abandon its satellite service altogether simply due to cost (Dish can not be forced to maintain sat services, but they can get a subsidy from the US Govt to do so, or be allowed to merge with DirecTV--if a merger is wanted by DirecTV owners) and just be all internet delivered. HOWEVER, unlike the clumsy all on-line service by DirecTV--of many names--Dish will be integrating such on-line delivery into its current sat systems and services and in time, it will be a transition we will hardly be aware is occurring to a near 100% delivery of programming via internet.

It is clear Dish in NOT building any new satellites--unless I have missed something--and they are more likely to lease or even buy existing DBS sats (such as DTV sats that DTV no longer needs) to segue into something other than satellites, and I can tell you the PQ and decrease in reliability (I can only presume they are just overloading their transponders with data at compressions that cause moments of lost picture and pixelation on the WA) sure indicates they are at or near the limit in terms of bandwidth, and a disaster when the all spotbeam at 110 comes to end of life, and yet no new Dish sats being built, nor am I aware of ANY DBS sats being built today (let me know if I am wrong on that). Dish decided long ago that internet is where they are going with Dish--forget about Sling, the Dish on-line service will be superior in features.

In the future, all one would likely need for Dish service is the H3+ itself, as Dish satellites die and wind down, and new comers will likely have their DVR in the cloud--OR even current sat customers will be offered CLOUD DVR for all the LIVE streaming channels, as part of the natural transition. There is a cost to building and always having to replace (and, in some cases, pay shipping costs) the DVR hardware boxes when the vast majority of the time it is merely the HDD that needs to be replaced (cost of HDD is a headache, as well) when the DVR is otherwise perfectly fine. Getting rid of the physical DVR itself must surely be Dish's long-term goal. Let's face it, we are talking about cost-cutting Charlie. When the DBS sats die, he will announce that Dish has "moved on--unless the US Govt. want to pay for continued sat services or allow us to merge with DirecTV." Is Dish positioning itself for such a situation to force matters to sooner than later?

That is all speculation and could all be WRONG. I'm willing to bet I got a few things on the mark, but probably missed the mark on a great many other things about the Hopper 3 Plus. I await the public release on this Hopper 3 Plus, but it sure seems like it won't be very soon.
 
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NashGuy

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OK Andorid TV seems likely. And yes, the tier for MVPD's is most likely what Dish will implement. My guess as to what the H3+ is this:

It's all about viewing programming from the INTERNET. As you recall, I was whining about only being able to watch ONE live streaming channel on the entire Hopper 3 network (channels such as some of the HBO/Cinemax channels and Stadium and BNC as examples). I think this is a step in the direction of Dish leveraging the less expensive and superior PQ of providing more LIVE streaming channel via the internet instead of its satellites. Dish will certainly need its sats for rural users for the time being and until fast internet comes to rural America, but Dish is clearly planning a long-term future via the internet.

I think the H3+ will likely replace the Hopper 3's current MoCA 2.0 with its much faster 10Gbps MoCA 3.0 that can allow for MULTIPLE LIVE streaming channels and Dish On Demand streaming and traditional on-demand services such as Netflix, etc., and it can handle/provide for MULTIPLE streams all at the same time to be viewed at the H3 and all clients, along with any satellite channels in the delivery and MoCA 3.0 net, as well. The only real limitation in speed or bandwidth would be your ISP's speed, and right now some ISPs are providing anywhere from 200Mbps to 400Mbps or even 1Gbps, and that leaves the MoCA 3.0 plenty of room for satellite channel delivery to the Joeys. In fact, there will be plenty of room on the MoCA 3.0 for just about anything extra, such as any necessary commands or other data to or from the H3 for whatever features it may provide.

I notice the H3+ with S/PDIF and HDMI out, so that suggests that this module can be connected to any OTHER TV than at an H3, and the H3+ is capable of doing its job also functioning as something of a Hopper with PIP features or Hopper like experience at a second or 3rd, etc. TV, or like a much more brainier Joey that also adds enhancements to the entire Hopper network.

I remember Charlie Ergen having said at a Quarterly Conference some years ago, "If I were building Dish Network today, I would not be investing in satellites."

I think the H3+ is Dish's move away from sats in very LONG road ahead--of course, sats are needed for the time being and years to come, but given the new push to get decent speeds out to rural areas, I don't think Dish sats will be needed by the end of this decade, and Dish may even make the bold move, before this decade is out, to abandon its satellite service altogether simply due to cost (Dish can not be forced to maintain sat services, but they can get a subsidy from the US Govt to do so, or be allowed to merge with DirecTV--if a merger is wanted by DirecTV owners) and just be all internet delivered. HOWEVER, unlike the clumsy all on-line service by DirecTV--of many names--Dish will be integrating such on-line delivery into its current sat systems and services and in time, it will be a transition we will hardly be aware is occurring to a near 100% delivery of programming via internet.

It is clear Dish in NOT building any new satellites--unless I have missed something--and they are more likely to lease or even buy existing DBS sats (such as DTV sats that DTV no longer needs) to segue into something other than satellites, and I can tell you the PQ and decrease in reliability (I can only presume they are just overloading their transponders with data at compressions that cause moments of lost picture and pixelation on the WA) sure indicates they are at or near the limit in terms of bandwidth, and a disaster when the all spotbeam at 110 comes to end of life, and yet no new Dish sats being built, nor am I aware of ANY DBS sats being built today (let me know if I am wrong on that). Dish decided long ago that internet is where they are going with Dish--forget about Sling, the Dish on-line service will be superior in features.

In the future, all one would likely need for Dish service is the H3+ itself, as Dish satellites die and wind down, and new comers will likely have their DVR in the cloud--OR even current sat customers will be offered CLOUD DVR for all the LIVE streaming channels, as part of the natural transition. There is a cost to building and always having to replace (and, in some cases, pay shipping costs) the DVR hardware boxes when the vast majority of the time it is merely the HDD that needs to be replaced (cost of HDD is a headache, as well) when the DVR is otherwise perfectly fine. Getting rid of the physical DVR itself must surely be Dish's long-term goal. Let's face it, we are talking about cost-cutting Charlie. When the DBS sats die, he will announce that Dish has "moved on--unless the US Govt. want to pay for continued sat services or allow us to merge with DirecTV." Is Dish positioning itself for such a situation to force matters to sooner than later?

That is all speculation and could all be WRONG. I'm willing to bet I got a few things on the mark, but probably missed the mark on a great many other things about the Hopper 3 Plus. I await the public release on this Hopper 3 Plus, but it sure seems like it won't be very soon.
Nice post. I'd agree that DISH may well be beginning a long-term gradual transition from satellite to internet delivery.

As for the upcoming Hopper Plus offering MoCA 3.0, wouldn't that require it to have a coaxial jack, which photos show it doesn't have?

I bet we see a deal struck to merge DISH and DTV in 2023, maybe even 2022, pending regulatory approval. It would be cool if the new Hopper Plus and Joeys could be engineered to work with current DTV Genie receivers, using their internal tuners and hard drives while providing a DISH UI and feature set. No idea if that's possible or financial feasible to do. But I'm sure if the two were to merge that we wouldn't see an attempt to re-install millions of households and switch them over to different rooftop dishes with all new hardware, etc. That would be way too expensive.
 
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