How common is rain fade?

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mattopia

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Oct 3, 2005
409
33
Parma, OH
DirecTV customer for about a month now. I seem to have a raid fade problem. When it rains "moderately" out (light yellow on weather radar), my HD channels on 103c become choppy/pixelated or drop out completely.

On signal strenth, I get 60s or 70s on most satellites but all zeroes on 103c during a moderate rain. Under normal circumstances, I get mid 80s on 103c.
 
those look a little low to me - I'm no expert - but most of them should be in the 90's - especially on 100/119 ... it takes a real bad electrical storm to knock out my picture completely .. I'd call them and ask them to come out and re-align your dish ...
 
I suffered from rain fade. I thought it was normal but I had D* come out to re-align the Dish. After that happened it happens only in the worst of weather.

Have them come realign the dish it worked wonders for me.
 
Yeah. Rain fade really only should happen with "Auntie Em" weather. Rain fade is really a misnomer. It should be cloud fade. Thick black clouds that blot out the sun are the ones that kill signal from the satellites as well. During the last downpour in this area, where we received something like 10" in two days, I never lost signal. However a brief, but severe T-storm in the right place will knock out signal for anywhere from a few seconds to 15 minutes.

See ya
Tony
 
Those are low. I would call and get them back out. I would think it should be free since it was not done right the first time.

Normal Rain should never effect the SAT, its the Hail super heavy rain in Thunderstorm and Tornado warnings that should. Then again if there is a warning, one should think about the basement and not the TV.
 
Those are low. I would call and get them back out. I would think it should be free since it was not done right the first time.

Normal Rain should never effect the SAT, its the Hail super heavy rain in Thunderstorm and Tornado warnings that should. Then again if there is a warning, one should think about the basement and not the TV.

Exactly!

Sometimes a history of high winds will eventually produce a need for a re point of the dish. At that time check all mountings and bolts. Something may have come loose. Once correctly sited, they things work until something else changes.

Watch conditions from your south and west. Rain washes the bird droppings. DTV stays on more consistently than many CATV (cable TV) systems. That is why folks switch...the secret is that cable companies use satellite systems to distribute their signal........your cable runs are shorter than their's and in better condition.

Enjoy,

Joe

Joe
 
I forgot about Wind.

I did have a wind problem when it stormed. I put some 2x4's in the Attic under where the sat is and then re lag screwed it.

I bet it could take a 70 mph wind now.
 
i had a rain fade problem with my 3lnb dish. because, i have the protection plan, a tech came out and realigned....no more problem. i live in florida and i only lose my signal when its raining cats and dog (sorry kids....my furry kids that is).
 
I live in Seattle and you know how much it rains here. I've had my AT9 dish for about 2 years now and I can only remember having rain fade once or twice in those two years. Prior to my AT9 I used to have rain fade every time we had a big storm, so it must have been the alignment.
 
I have never once lost my signal since I got DTV back in September. I always get people coming up to me with the - I don't want DTV because when it rains - you lose tv. Maybe true 10 years ago - but now more of a Comcast way of misleading people. My signals are in the mid to high 90's all the time. I would make sure the sat is setup correctly.
 
I live in Seattle and you know how much it rains here. I've had my AT9 dish for about 2 years now and I can only remember having rain fade once or twice in those two years. Prior to my AT9 I used to have rain fade every time we had a big storm, so it must have been the alignment.
Rain fad has more to do with the density of the clouds (their vertical thickness and amount of moisture). Even though it rains a lot in Seattle, it never really rains hard and seldom does the Pac NW get thick could decks, like it does east of the Rockies.
 
RaiN Fade is a myth that the Cable Company made up.

If you get Rain fade and there is not a ThunderStorm Warning out there for hail. Your dish probably needs tweaked for a stronger signal.
 
Rain Fade?

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Ran fade effects Microwave signals that travel in the above 11GHz range and is typically solved by using redundant microwaves operating at 2 frequencies such as 6GHz and 12GHz radios since rain usually affects each frequency differently but not usually at the same time. Even though satellites do use microwaves to communicate the waves would be falling in the same direction as the rain thus no rain fade. Microwave radio earth transmitters suffer because they broadcast parallel to the clouds/ground thus ran "Fades" the signal lower and causes the waves to bend slightly down missing the receiver. [/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']What you are suffering from is simply low signal or lack of alignment. The clouds attenuate the signal so having low signal from the start puts your signal too low for the receiver to decode. You might also have a bad LNB. Both situations a dish technician should be able to point to right away.[/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We "AT&T" spent millions to fight rain fade back in the day only to give in to fiber just when ourselves and RCA we had perfected microwave transmission. [/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Hope this clears it up. [/FONT]
 
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Ran fade effects Microwave signals that travel in the above 11GHz range and is typically solved by using redundant microwaves operating at 2 frequencies such as 6GHz and 12GHz radios since rain usually affects each frequency differently but not usually at the same time. Even though satellites do use microwaves to communicate the waves would be falling in the same direction as the rain thus no rain fade. Microwave radio earth transmitters suffer because they broadcast parallel to the clouds/ground thus ran "Fades" the signal lower and causes the waves to bend slightly down missing the receiver. [/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']What you are suffering from is simply low signal or lack of alignment. The clouds attenuate the signal so having low signal from the start puts your signal too low for the receiver to decode. You might also have a bad LNB. Both situations a dish technician should be able to point to right away.[/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']We "AT&T" spent millions to fight rain fade back in the day only to give in to fiber just when ourselves and RCA we had perfected microwave transmission. [/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Hope this clears it up. [/FONT]

Say what ?

IF I have sat SS in the mid 90's - 100, thats the best it gets, IF we get a bad enough storm , heavy rain I will lose my signal till the storm passes about :30 sec to 10-15 minutes.
That said, I only loss signal about once or twice a year and if I do, I know a really bad storm is on the way.
Seeing the signal comes from the SW and my weather does as well, I know in advance that the storm is coming, usually about 20 minutes ahead of time, that gives me enough time to pick up anythi g outside that needs to be taken care of... I like it when the signal goes out, I love a good thunderstorm and thanks to the sat, I've got an advance warning. :)

btw, by the time the rain gets here my signal has been back in for quite awhile :)

Jimbo
 
Even though satellites do use microwaves to communicate the waves would be falling in the same direction as the rain thus no rain fade.

OMG_ROFLMAO! This has GOT to be the funniest thing I have read today!

Are you serious? This can't be serious. The redundant signals I get. And yes different frequecies react differently to the moisture in the air. But unless the water droplets are falling at relativistic speeds.... LOL!!!!

Microwave radio earth transmitters suffer because they broadcast parallel to the clouds/ground thus ran "Fades" the signal lower and causes the waves to bend slightly down missing the receiver.

Another one for the books!
BEND the signal? Um...NO. Attenuate the signal, yes.

What you are suffering from is simply low signal or lack of alignment. The clouds attenuate the signal so having low signal from the start puts your signal too low for the receiver to decode.

This part may be correct. However with DBS, no matter how strong the signal (100+) you will still have some rain fade. (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Cloud fade is more accurate) The frequencies DBS uses will be blocked out by large moisture laiden clouds. This happens to the uplink center as well. About once every couple of years we have a flood of people posting that Dish is off the air when it is a rain fade event in Cheyenne!

See ya
Tony
 
OMG_ROFLMAO! This has GOT to be the funniest thing I have read today!

Are you serious? This can't be serious. The redundant signals I get. And yes different frequecies react differently to the moisture in the air. But unless the water droplets are falling at relativistic speeds.... LOL!!!!



Another one for the books!
BEND the signal? Um...NO. Attenuate the signal, yes.



This part may be correct. However with DBS, no matter how strong the signal (100+) you will still have some rain fade. (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Cloud fade is more accurate) The frequencies DBS uses will be blocked out by large moisture laiden clouds. This happens to the uplink center as well. About once every couple of years we have a flood of people posting that Dish is off the air when it is a rain fade event in Cheyenne!

See ya
Tony

I think your on to something Tony,
I think it should be called " Cloud Fade" as it is actually the cloud and the moisture content of the cloud that is causing the problem.
Maybe we can have the local weather man start forecasting cloud moisture content :eureka

Jimbo
 
Sorry

OMG_ROFLMAO! This has GOT to be the funniest thing I have read today!

Are you serious? This can't be serious. The redundant signals I get. And yes different frequecies react differently to the moisture in the air. But unless the water droplets are falling at relativistic speeds.... LOL!!!!



Another one for the books!
BEND the signal? Um...NO. Attenuate the signal, yes.



This part may be correct. However with DBS, no matter how strong the signal (100+) you will still have some rain fade. (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Cloud fade is more accurate) The frequencies DBS uses will be blocked out by large moisture laiden clouds. This happens to the uplink center as well. About once every couple of years we have a flood of people posting that Dish is off the air when it is a rain fade event in Cheyenne!

See ya
Tony


Man im not allowed to have any fun on here!!!! ok fine now the tech answer:

Rain fade is caused by absorption of RF by Rain,Snow, and Ice and usually only noticed in frequencies above 11GHz.

The issue our friend above is most likely seeing is degradation of the signal caused by electromagnetic interference seen at the leading edge of a storm. Since he stated that his service usually restores before the rain gets to him.

Since DBS signals are in the 12GHz band then they are affected by all of the above.

Non Tech answer:

I have dish network with a 3LNB dish 1000.2 and a 1LNB dish 500. To this day I have not had any issues with storms. In the last 2 years I have had maybe 1 or 2 loss of signals for maybe a few seconds each. I think allignment has a lot to do with it and also placement of your dish. Mine happens to be about 110 feet from my house at the back of the property next to a storage shed. This keeps most of the snow, rain, and wind away from the dishes. Perhaps that is helping or maybe im just darn lucky.

In the future NO MORE FUN I promise.
 
Man im not allowed to have any fun on here!!!! ok fine now the tech answer:

Rain fade is caused by absorption of RF by Rain,Snow, and Ice and usually only noticed in frequencies above 11GHz.

The issue our friend above is most likely seeing is degradation of the signal caused by electromagnetic interference seen at the leading edge of a storm. Since he stated that his service usually restores before the rain gets to him.

Sorry. Guess again. :) Moisture in the atmosphere (not just rain, but clouds and relative humidity attenuate signal. If there is enough water in the air in the form of clouds or whatever, the attenuation can be enough to attenuate the signal enough to cause what is called "rain fade" Rain itself has ZERO to do with rain fade. It is "moisture" or "cloud" fade really.

Electromagnetic interference has nothing to do with it.

It is really, really simple. Nothing fancy. Nothing "electrical" about it.

1) Microwaves at that frequency cannot pass through water molecules without being attenuated.

2) Weather in most of the contiguous US comes fromt he west.

3) Most people in the US live east of 110° and even more live east of 119°. Since the weather approaches from the west AND the leading edge of a storm generally has the largest, thicksets clouds holding more moisture than the rest of the storm.

THEREFORE: The signal is blocked by the leading edge of the storm because of the large billowy clouds holding a 10 to 12 mile thick layer of nothing but water molecules. There signal is blocked before the storm even gets to you! As the storm passes overhead, the thick part of the clouds is no longer blocking signal which is coming from the west and not directly above. The rain is coming down HARD, but the 12 mile thick layer of clouds is no longer obstructing the signal. It could be raining cats and dogs from clouds directly above you, but they are no longer in the path between you and the satellite.

---Quick experiment: At about 5 pm on a partly cloudy day, are you in the shade of a cloud directly above you, or one off to the west?

Can electrical interference have an effect on the signal. Yup. But it is momentary. A lightning strike near you and the LNB (possibly even the cable running from the LNB to the receiver) will pick up enough electrical interference by induction to momentarily (a second or so) lose signal lock. However when that happens, it is not a good idea to complain about signal loss. It's a good idea to turn off and UNPLUG all your electrical equipment like receivers, computers, etc. until the storm passes.

-----------
Non Tech answer:

I have dish network with a 3LNB dish 1000.2 and a 1LNB dish 500. To this day I have not had any issues with storms. In the last 2 years I have had maybe 1 or 2 loss of signals for maybe a few seconds each. I think alignment has a lot to do with it and also placement of your dish. Mine happens to be about 110 feet from my house at the back of the property next to a storage shed. This keeps most of the snow, rain, and wind away from the dishes. Perhaps that is helping or maybe im just darn lucky.

In the future NO MORE FUN I promise.

I did get a good chuckle out of the original explanation. And honestly I wasn't sure if it was a joke or you were serious.

You are correct that a well-aimed, larger dish will rarely have any rain fade events. But remember that the actual rain has nearly NOTHING to do with rain fade. Really. No joke. It is the clouds ladened with a 10-mile thick blanket of water that blocks the signal. It is just that simple.

See ya
Tony
 
I have been a customer for a couple of months and have lost signal twice, but only during very hard rain/thunderstorms (red on weather.com). The first time it was out for about 5-7 minutes, the last time it was out for 2-3 minutes. Once the "heavy" rain passed, it came back with no other issues. I have very high signal strengths (90's). My dish is mounted in my yard (not on the roof), not sure if that has any effect on the situation.

Side-none: I also noticed that in afternoons (4-6pm), the signal strength on my OTA antenna drops a bit on some channels. Not sure what causes that.
 
Didn't mean to start anything here. :) I'll call D* and have them come out to re-align. I'm still within my 90 days and I also said I'd take the protection plan once it's up. I'm sure I'll need them out again at some point.

And you're right about cable - I had more problems with Cox, especially with their Internet service, than I had with E* or with D*. My HD channels would pixelate regularly and they were never able to fix it.

I'm glad to know most people don't have this issue - that confirms it's just my install and not something common.
 
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