In laymans terms, why no VIP integration with Hopper

Brad:

The catch here is that you would need more than 2 Dual Tuner DVRS to feed these TVs independently. With only 2 Dual Tuner DVRs you have to be mirroring programming on the SDTVs. For each to have independent viewing, you'd need 3 Dual Tuner DVRs @ $34/month.

Regards,

John, Sure you're correct, but I bet a LOT of folks have the system I described above or something similar, making the "sacrifice" of mirroring TV2 on multiple TVs. I'm one of 'em! (Actually, with two VIPs, you have the choice of TWO TV2's and TWO TV1s at each SDTV location with the right distribution cabling.)

Brad
 
mike123abc said:
Very unlikely unless the locations were adjacent. You are looking at 2-19mbit/sec transfer rates. Even if you have a fast internet and a MOCA bridge, it probably would not work. Remember the joey does not have a tuner and is worthless unless it can talk to the Hopper at high speed.

So your saying that someone with two hoppers and two joeys couldn't take one of the hoppers and one of the joeys to another location and use both at the same time? Seems like it could be stacked like that.
 
So your saying that someone with two hoppers and two joeys couldn't take one of the hoppers and one of the joeys to another location and use both at the same time? Seems like it could be stacked like that.

Your IP address for the 2 hoppers would be different which would probably be a red flag @ Dish that something was up...
 
John Kotches said:
Your IP address for the 2 hoppers would be different which would probably be a red flag @ Dish that something was up...

If your receivers are hooked up behind a router it is fairly trivial to make the IPs and MAC addresses match in both locations.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
 
If your receivers are hooked up behind a router it is fairly trivial to make the IPs and MAC addresses match in both locations.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

The address that dish sees will not be the IP behind the router. They'll see the publically routable address from the ISP on the router side. So you'll have two hoppers with 2 IP addresses maybe even from different providers.

With GeoIP databases, they could track that down pretty easily.
 
John Kotches said:
Your IP address for the 2 hoppers would be different which would probably be a red flag @ Dish that something was up...

Internet is required for a hopper/joey pair to function? Or mostly pay per view and sling options?
 
Two things to think about:
1) The real reason for no mixed installs is... All of the above plus one more. Customer service calls. "Hello, My recevier in the bedroom can't see the recordings on the living room receiver. Yes, the bedroom is a VIP receiver. Yes, the living room is a Hopper. Oh, what do you meant that doesn't work. I'm sure it was working yesterday." blah blah blah

2) What is to stop you from stringing RG-6 to three of your neighbors and dropping joeys there?
 
pabeader said:
Two things to think about:


2) What is to stop you from stringing RG-6 to three of your neighbors and dropping joeys there?

The fact that all three of your tuners would be in use!
 
John Kotches said:
Technically, I think you can use the phone connection on a Hopper but from a practical perspective the overwhelming majority will be connecting their Hopper to an existing ethernet network.

No connection on either pair, at either location. Hopper/joey still function is what I was asking.
 
I don't know if there's a phone-home requirement built into the H/J software stacks. Given their architecture I wouldn't be surprised that either/or is mandatory.
 
///M AZING said:
So your saying that someone with two hoppers and two joeys couldn't take one of the hoppers and one of the joeys to another location and use both at the same time? Seems like it could be stacked like that.

That other location would need the appropriate dish and would also need a solo node in order for the Hopper and Joey to work together. If you had everything setup correctly then I suppose it would work. Not sure why you'd go through that much trouble to cheat the system though.
 
Scherrman said:
That other location would need the appropriate dish and would also need a solo node in order for the Hopper and Joey to work together. If you had everything setup correctly then I suppose it would work. Not sure why you'd go through that much trouble to cheat the system though.

No. just thinking about the suggestion that no vip mix was to help prevent stacking.
 
I'm surprised that no one has given the real layman's answer to the question:

We just don't know.

:D
 
Brad:

What's to stop you from using RF modulators on the SD outputs of a Hopper and/or Joey?

Nothing is stopping me from doing that - in fact that's what I'm planning to do. But even doing that, I'll still need 2 hoppers and 4 joeys, with RF off of two of the Joeys, to give me the functionality and number of tuners (including OTA) that I have today. Granted, some of the locations will now be HD, and that is certainly worth something, but the fact of the matter is that my equipment fees will go up from $23/mo to $45/mo. Some of that difference will be made up, in my mind, by the convenience of having a "seamless" control experience at each TV - not having to change the channel number on the TV to see a certain output of a certain VIP box, for example. Having recently found out, in another thread, that more than one remote per Hopper & Joey is supported, I feel much better about the H-J system with RF subfeeds. In a perfect world, though, a "mixed" H-J and 722 system would still be best for ME, at least for now. YMMV.

Since I skipped a generation of technology by never biting on the 922, I will probably bite the bullet and go with the H-J, but I'm not in any great hurry. I'd like to see it shake out a bit before making the leap.
 
So your saying that someone with two hoppers and two joeys couldn't take one of the hoppers and one of the joeys to another location and use both at the same time? Seems like it could be stacked like that.

Probably before they get the hopper integration working. But, it would be pretty trivial for them to make the hoppers have to see each other on the same node once the upgrade comes out. They could designate one as the master and one as the slave to have all the timers coordinate between the two units. The slave probably would have to see the master to function. If your master unit broke down they could just designate the slave to become the master after you call in to the CSR.
 
As an engineer who has worked in both hardware and software development, IMO the reason they didn't allow VIP receivers on the Hopper system is to greatly simply testing and maintenance of current and new features. If they keep Hopper/Joey self contained, then they don't have to run test cases on every single combination of equipment out there. This task grows exponentially for each additional combination created. It also lets them handle VIP and Hopper as separate technologies and then they can make business decisions on each without having huge complications. i.e. "We can't add this feature here because it breaks this over there."

Since people, for the most part (exception for those on this forum), won't take any time at all to learn anything about their equipment, Dish has to assume that any change has to be easy enough so that a chimpanzee can handle it. (OK, maybe unfair to the chimpanzee) So they have to endlessly test any changes or they face what, I should imagine is a nightmare where they push out an update, and it takes 1000s if not tens of 1000s of systems off line. It's hugely complicated for systems as sophisticated as these. So from a technical perspective, I would say this is why they did it.

Not everyone, in fact I would guess that most of Dish's customers are not going to want a whole house DVR system as I'm sure there are many with just one TV and receiver and are not interested in anything else. At the end of the day, it isn't about the system but instead, its the content and Dish needs to maintain a very low cost option out there because ultimately they are competing against the local cable and telephone companies, which in a lot of areas still, offer a no set top box option and bundles with wired Internet and telephone. They won't want to add cost by making it compatible with Hopper.
 
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Topcat the thread title is misleading. All the OP was talking about was having these two types of receivers on the same account. It's clear from the installation pdfs that Hoppers and VIP receivers can share an antenna/switch. We are not actually talking about integration beyond that, though such a thing would be nice!
 

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