Internationals Mirror from 118 to 61.5

[navigates]

With the recent uplink reports, there are a lot of SD channels that have started up on 61.5. Is dish planning on mirroring the internationals as well on 61.5? It would make sense as that would keep the whole east coast back to a single dish solution for the subs that need internationals.

As for me personally, Since I don't have the LOS for 129, I point to 72.7 for HD in a mixed arc solution which has 110, 119, 118.5 and 72.7. It works perfectly well in the west but there are two dishes on my small patio.

 

[ChadT41]

I'm gonna guess not, just on the sole basis that they made the move from 61.5 for internationals just a couple years ago. Forced all international customers to change their dish's. It wouldn't make sense to go back. But I have been surprised before.

 

[navigates]

I'm gonna guess not, just on the sole basis that they made the move from 61.5 for internationals just a couple years ago. Forced all international customers to change their dish's. It wouldn't make sense to go back. But I have been surprised before.

Good point but in my opinion, they moved all users to 118 as 61.5 was getting out of space with the old sat. They now have a new sat with a lot more space. They have also started the dual arc's which also didn't really exist. Internationals are the only thing that keeps people from going solely on the eastern arc if they need 118. When I was in NYC. I had 110/119/118 and 129. That is now the western arc. I now am in LA and can get 61.5, 72.7 and 77 just fine. Lets wait and see unless someone else knows.

 

[Dishman1978]

Hmmmm......

I think that would be a good plan if there is enough bandwidth available. A single dish solution no matter where you live. Awesome.

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[ChadT41]

I do see the point. I just don't see them doing it after spending all that money to get people transitioned over in the first place.

 

[boba]

Really how much of DISH's business is internationals? Now divide by 2 arcs and show where there is profit to be made, remember Charlie is a bean counter. Before starting Echosphere he was an accountant.

 

[ChadT41]

Before Charlie created Echostar, he was being thrown out and blacklisted from Vegas casinos for card counting.

 

[navigates]

Really how much of DISH's business is internationals? Now divide by 2 arcs and show where there is profit to be made, remember Charlie is a bean counter. Before starting Echosphere he was an accountant.

If they move to 61.5, it is a financial gain. As for internationals, they have a huge sum of subscribers. They spun off the IPTV with just the internationals. Remember in the days, they had internationals mirrored on 148 as well for the western coast. What surprises me is that they have 77w which is almost empty and is used for mexican internationals.

 

[TimberWolf]

They wouldn't have to move anyone off 118, but mirroring on 61.5 again would save time and money on eastern arc new intl installs

 

[ChadT41]

You know how dish likes everyone doing one thing. They would call it a migration and move everyone on EA over just to appease those that feel it necessary to switch over for no apperant reason. Don't get me wrong. I agree. I think it would be a great idea. Just don't see it happening based on their history.

 

[boba]

If they move to 61.5, it is a financial gain. As for internationals, they have a huge sum of subscribers. They spun off the IPTV with just the internationals. Remember in the days, they had internationals mirrored on 148 as well for the western coast. What surprises me is that they have 77w which is almost empty and is used for mexican internationals.

77 belongs to Mexico DISH is just leasing that orbital spot.

 

[DishSubLA]

The whole point of putting Internationals at 118.7 Ku FSS was to releive the pressure from the DBS slots/banwidth where the vast mojority of subdcibers look and receive their packages. Internationals are going to be on line via DishWorld once their lease for 118.7 ends in about 10 years. Dish really needs more bandwidth for its HD English language packages now and in the future. Using the DBS bandwidth for Internationals would be using bandwidth they really need. Dish paid for the migration with a long term plan for both arcs, and even further for tweener slots. "If I were building Dish [network] today, I would not be investing in satellites," said Ergen in Quarterly over a year ago. Most of Dish's slots are LEASED, with no intention to make permanent. The dual arc is a temporary 15 year fix. In fact Dish will lose 129 at end of lease next decade as Govt. Of Canada allowed lease to Dish (via Ceil) on the condition that after 15 year lease ends, 129 must be used for Canadian puposes. Dish even let 148 go and no longer owns that slot. Dish seems to planning for 110, 119, and tweener for the final solution with the improved next gen MPEG4 encoding that will allow far more data/channels of video in high quality at extremely high compression (or Broadcom's competing encoding solution). IMHO. putting Internationals back at 61.5 means they would not be able to accomodate future HD.

The Mexi sat could be mostly dark for future Mex growth or crtical backup for EA.

 

[navigates]

The whole point of putting Internationals at 118.7 Ku FSS was to releive the pressure from the DBS slots/banwidth where the vast mojority of subdcibers look and receive their packages. Internationals are going to be on line via DishWorld once their lease for 118.7 ends in about 10 years. Dish really needs more bandwidth for its HD English language packages now and in the future. Using the DBS bandwidth for Internationals would be using bandwidth they really need. Dish paid for the migration with a long term plan for both arcs, and even further for tweener slots. "If I were building Dish [network] today, I would not be investing in satellites," said Ergen in Quarterly over a year ago. Most of Dish's slots are LEASED, with no intention to make permanent. The dual arc is a temporary 15 year fix. In fact Dish will lose 129 at end of lease next decade as Govt. Of Canada allowed lease to Dish (via Ceil) on the condition that after 15 year lease ends, 129 must be used for Canadian puposes. Dish even let 148 go and no longer owns that slot. Dish seems to planning for 110, 119, and tweener for the final solution with the improved next gen MPEG4 encoding that will allow far more data/channels of video in high quality at extremely high compression (or Broadcom's competing encoding solution). IMHO. putting Internationals back at 61.5 means they would not be able to accomodate future HD.

The Mexi sat could be mostly dark for future Mex growth or crtical backup for EA.

It’s interesting how you put this into perspective for dish. Dish has additional bandwidth with the new 61.5 when compared to the previous one. Besides dish cannot add additional HD channels on 61.5 when it does not exist on the western arc for replication. Internationals is a huge community and if you have been following the trend closely, the internationals too have been going HD. At this moment its all speculation but giving the previous changes with dish, I’d be surprised, if they indeed added internationals back on 61.5. It would surely be a nice to have. Essentially the whole eastern arc is a nice to have in that perspective as the western arc worked just fine for the whole country.


The Mexi sat couldn’t serve as a critical backup for EA mainly because they have been installing the dual lnb’s 61.5 and 72.7 for a while now. So incase 72.7 went down. They would have to install a while new set of dishes and upgraded lnb’s.

 

[bobvick]

I venture to bet that the number of current subscribers and potential subscribers interested (wanting) English language HD programming FAR exceeds the market for international channels. It makes sense for them to be only on the one arc and on a separate satellite. Not to mention the fact that the IP based Dish World service also serves that market. Once Dish (finally if ever) gets the Western Arc converted to 8PSK from QPSK that should provide a substantial increase in available space on the WA, probably not as much as EA has but enough to help add some new HD.


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[navigates]

I venture to bet that the number of current subscribers and potential subscribers interested (wanting) English language HD programming FAR exceeds the market for international channels. It makes sense for them to be only on the one arc and on a separate satellite. Not to mention the fact that the IP based Dish World service also serves that market. Once Dish (finally if ever) gets the Western Arc converted to 8PSK from QPSK that should provide a substantial increase in available space on the WA, probably not as much as EA has but enough to help add some new HD.


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Its true that the number of non internationals far exceeds those for the internationals, however, dish cannot add more hd channels on one arc and leave out another arc unless they do the whole conversion to 8PSK. DirectTv has a roadmap to engage ip based service offerings, and I wouldn't be surprised if dish has a similar roadmap as well and the testbed is dishworld. Lets wait and see what happens. Does anyone have an engineering receiver to see whats going on with the uplinks.? Like the olden days of Nag2?

 

[TheKrell]

Scott has one but I'm not sure he's at liberty to tell us what he sees thereon.

 

[DishSubLA]

It’s interesting how you put this into perspective for dish. Dish has additional bandwidth with the new 61.5 when compared to the previous one. Besides dish cannot add additional HD channels on 61.5 when it does not exist on the western arc for replication. Internationals is a huge community and if you have been following the trend closely, the internationals too have been going HD. At this moment its all speculation but giving the previous changes with dish, I’d be surprised, if they indeed added internationals back on 61.5. It would surely be a nice to have. Essentially the whole eastern arc is a nice to have in that perspective as the western arc worked just fine for the whole country.


The Mexi sat couldn’t serve as a critical backup for EA mainly because they have been installing the dual lnb’s 61.5 and 72.7 for a while now. So incase 72.7 went down. They would have to install a while new set of dishes and upgraded lnb’s.

Ah, I thought that about the installing of the dual LNBF's for EA. I thought they were, but couldn't remember for sure.

 

[DishSubLA]

Also, with Dish sure to launch the very first MVPD exclusive streaming service, me thinks Charlie may see Dish's real future as an app on a Roku. Of course, technology keeps changing so fast and the Netflix phenomena has presented real challenges/problems with how we use the net in a way it was never designed to do and who is going to PAY for all the added traffic on the backbone to the edge routers that will cause even more stuttering when streaming in HD, etc. which also brings in the notion of data-caps if we are to get even MORE of our entertainment from streaming services like the forthcoming Dish and others soon to follow. We really will have to see how it all turns out

 

[navigates]

Also, with Dish sure to launch the very first MVPD exclusive streaming service, me thinks Charlie may see Dish's real future as an app on a Roku. Of course, technology keeps changing so fast and the Netflix phenomena has presented real challenges/problems with how we use the net in a way it was never designed to do and who is going to PAY for all the added traffic on the backbone to the edge routers that will cause even more stuttering when streaming in HD, etc. which also brings in the notion of data-caps if we are to get even MORE of our entertainment from streaming services like the forthcoming Dish and others soon to follow. We really will have to see how it all turns out

Sounds about right. I do know that DirectTv has an internal project to begin online streaming offerings as that is the future roadmap for their content delivery. Dish may be on the same path specially with the advent of 4k TV's hitting the main stream in about 2-4 years, I highly doubt, the SAT's will have enough space to upgrade all their HD's to 4Ks. There are sats in ASIA that have started with 2K's but thats about it. Will miss the SAT's once they are gone . Pointing in itself is a hobby.

 

[DishSubLA]

Sounds about right. I do know that DirectTv has an internal project to begin online streaming offerings as that is the future roadmap for their content delivery. Dish may be on the same path specially with the advent of 4k TV's hitting the main stream in about 2-4 years, I highly doubt, the SAT's will have enough space to upgrade all their HD's to 4Ks. There are sats in ASIA that have started with 2K's but thats about it. Will miss the SAT's once they are gone . Pointing in itself is a hobby.

Well, encoding technology today can provide for 4K via even modest download rate via internet, and the encoding tech in the future will improve so that 4K could be sent even via DBS sat efficiently, and new encoders are chump change for Dish and DirecTV, BUT, the real hard pill to swallow is that it will require hardware swap-outs of existing STB's at a big cost to Dish and DirecTV, and this may push DBS services further to the on-line delivery train. However, unless some of the content is allowed to be cached at the ISP so that everyone (larger numbers of users than today) doesn't try to pull down the same movie or TV show at the same time clogging up the backbone with identical requests, even the on-line streaming trend can hit bad bumps. Oh, and the data-caps issue, as well.

However, I do believe that the DBS services will still have satellites, but they may be used far differently than today. DirecTV and Dish could use sats to download the most popular requests efficiently and far faster than via internet with some services still part of a continuous digital stream as today. A good example of how this might work is DirecTV's Genie Start Over feature that while watching a sat channel, will grab the content you are watching from an on-line source and stream it from the beginning. Of course, there are limitations to the current DirecTV implementation, but that can be fixed in the near future. DBS Dish and DirecTV will probably turn into hybrid sat and on-line service.