Is it "Un-American" to not care about WBC?

[cosmo_kramer]

Listen, I do not blame the owners ONE BIT if they say no to their star players playing for their country....regardless of the country. This just goes to show you how f***ed the owners in MLB are. They WANT and BEGGED for a tournament like this FOR YEARS...and now they won't send their best players....doing things half assed backwards. ....

I'd like to see some quotes to back up this statement. This tournament was pushed by MLB management and it was the team owners that helped adopt the player restrictions that are in place today:

The tournament was announced in May 2005.[3] Major League Baseball (MLB) had been attempting to create such a tournament for at least two years; negotiations with the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA)—the players' union—and with the team owners had held the plan back. Owners, notably New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, had been concerned about their star players being injured in international play before the beginning of spring training, and the professional season. This was a concern for the union as well, but their primary objection was with drug testing: MLB wanted the stricter Olympic standards in place for the tournament, while the union wanted current MLB standards in place. Eventually, a deal was reached on insurance for player contracts and a fairly tough drug testing standard. MLB teams would not be able to directly block their players from participating.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Baseball_Classic"]World Baseball Classic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png" class="image"><img alt="World Baseball Classic Logo with out text.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png/150px-World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/1/1d/World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png/150px-World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png[/ame]

George Steinbrenner interview 2/06:

Q: What does the addition of center fielder Johnny Damon mean to the team?

A: He's a very good player and is going to help us a lot. I've gotten to know him fairly well and like him. I'm extremely happy, though, with (Hideki) Matsui. I think he's going to have a very big year because he's concentrating here where he should be and not on that World Classic. It's crazy.

Q: So, what do you really think of the World Baseball Classic?

A: I think it's bull——. Some good player is going to get hurt and they don't have insurance on him. It's a bad situation. A lot of the players, the smart ones, are dropping out. I give Matsui a lot of credit (for not playing with the Japanese team).

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/yankees/2006-02-27-steinbrenner_x.htm

 

[salsadancer7]

I'd like to see some quotes to back up this statement. This tournament was pushed by MLB management and it was the team owners that helped adopt the player restrictions that are in place today

THe owners DID push for this tournment....you think the PLAYERS wanted this?! The owners wanted this to promote SOMETHING, whether it was possibly expand when the concept was 1st brought up or to make a buck. EITHER WAY, this was not brought up by players or players unions.

And quoting George Steinbrenner is rich. Here is a guy that does not give a rats ass about baseball BUT his Yankees. IF this guy could, the league would consist of nothing BUT Yankees so he could boss around and tell what to do.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

THe owners DID push for this tournment....you think the PLAYERS wanted this?! The owners wanted this to promote SOMETHING, whether it was possibly expand when the concept was 1st brought up or to make a buck. EITHER WAY, this was not brought up by players or players unions.

And quoting George Steinbrenner is rich. Here is a guy that does not give a rats ass about baseball BUT his Yankees. IF this guy could, the league would consist of nothing BUT Yankees so he could boss around and tell what to do.

OK, again, let's see some evidence to back up that claim.

Did you even read the whole post? Where in there did I say the players wanted it?? It's clear that it originated from the heirarchy at MLB, and that the owners and MLBPA fought it from the beginning. It was on their insistence that the mercy rule and playing time restrictions be implemented. And, how would the MLB owners profit from this tournament??

As for Steinbrenner, don't you feel most if not all of the other current owners feel the same way about their players participating?? If not, please read the articles out there about the current crop of players having to bow out because of injury. After all, put yourself in their shoes. They may be covered financially through insurance if one of their star players goes down, but what about the effect of losing that player from their lineup has on their team??

 

[salsadancer7]

OK, again, let's see some evidence to back up that claim.

Did you even read the whole post? Where in there did I say the players wanted it?? It's clear that it originated from the heirarchy at MLB, and that the owners and MLBPA fought it from the beginning. It was on their insistence that the mercy rule and playing time restrictions be implemented. And, how would the MLB owners profit from this tournament??

As for Steinbrenner, don't you feel most if not all of the other current owners feel the same way about their players participating?? If not, please read the articles out there about the current crop of players having to bow out because of injury. After all, put yourself in their shoes. They may be covered financially through insurance if one of their star players goes down, but what about the effect of losing that player from their lineup has on their team??

And where did I say YOU SAID the players wanted it? Look, the owners will now say they wanted no part of it because they realized that they are possibly putting their own investments(the players) at risk, but if you don't think ownership runs MLB, you are extremely naive...ESPECIALLY when you have a owner(former owner) running the place.

 

[HD MM]

MLB = 133 years of history

WBC = 2 years of history

Hard to get excited for something with such little history. It's like getting jacked for the XFL when it competed against the NFL.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

And where did I say YOU SAID the players wanted it? Look, the owners will now say they wanted no part of it because they realized that they are possibly putting their own investments(the players) at risk, but if you don't think ownership runs MLB, you are extremely naive...ESPECIALLY when you have a owner(former owner) running the place.

OK, I'm done. Since you can't provide any information to back up your claim we'll just assume that it's your opinion. That's OK too...

 

[salsadancer7]

MLB = 133 years of history

WBC = 2 years of history

Hard to get excited for something with such little history. It's like getting jacked for the XFL when it competed against the NFL.

Wait...I will give you the 1st two...but comparing it to the XFL is like comparing apples and 747 jet airplains! LOL!

 

[HD MM]

Wait...I will give you the 1st two...but comparing it to the XFL is like comparing apples and 747 jet airplains! LOL!

Why? Both the XFL and WBC have been around for 2 years. Both the XFL and WBC are secondary leagues to the NFL or MLB.

 

[salsadancer7]

Why? Both the XFL and WBC have been around for 2 years. Both the XFL and WBC are secondary leagues to the NFL or MLB.

But XFL was trying to complete with the NFL, the WBC is NOT trying to compete with anyone. The XFL could never have the same caliber of talent that the NFL could....EVER. The WBC COULD, all the owners have to say is..."ok, you can play"...and it would be a done deal. The WBC is a tournament once every 3 or 4 years....the XFL was a league....

...and the list goes on and on.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

After reading all of Salsa's rants about this, has anybody changed their mind about this?
Put me in the NO category.

 

[JonE]

All the WBC really is, is spring training with prettier uniforms. The pitchers are still on a pitch count, you're not going to see ALL the best players representing their countries for reasons already covered in this thread, and the results mean little to nothing. It's like an all-star game where half the all-stars don't show up.

 

[HD MM]

All the WBC really is, is spring training with prettier uniforms. The pitchers are still on a pitch count, you're not going to see ALL the best players representing their countries for reasons already covered in this thread, and the results mean little to nothing. It's like an all-star game where half the all-stars don't show up.

Good summary. :up

 

[salsadancer7]

OK, I'm done. Since you can't provide any information to back up your claim we'll just assume that it's your opinion. That's OK too...

So then YOU are saying that the idea/concept of the WBC just came out of NO WHERE?? AND the owners just agreed to it right? According to YOUR wiki link, it was wanted by MLB, in other words...THE OWNERS! Yes they were concerned, but MLB, i.e., THE OWNERS, but negociated a deal with the player union to start this classic. They had the same issues in Japan:

Similarly, Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) and its players' association had a disagreement over participation in the tournament. While the owners initially agreed to the invitation, the players' union was concerned about the time of year the tournament was scheduled to take place, as well as their right to be better represented when the next tournament is to be held in 2009. After four months of negotiations, NPB officially notified MLB they were accepting the invitation on September 16, 2005

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Baseball_Classic"]World Baseball Classic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png" class="image"><img alt="World Baseball Classic Logo with out text.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png/150px-World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/1/1d/World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png/150px-World_Baseball_Classic_Logo_with_out_text.png[/ame]

So you may not get the "QUOTES" you so desperately want, but your link more or less states exactly what i have been saying.

 

[yourbeliefs]

But XFL was trying to complete with the NFL, the WBC is NOT trying to compete with anyone. The XFL could never have the same caliber of talent that the NFL could....EVER. The WBC COULD, all the owners have to say is..."ok, you can play"...and it would be a done deal. The WBC is a tournament once every 3 or 4 years....the XFL was a league....

...and the list goes on and on.

How was the XFL trying to compete with the NFL? It was trying to act as more of an "accessory" league than anything. Their season didn't start until the NFL's ended, it never tried to lure NFL players away (because it knew it couldn't) and it tried to add new ideas to the football formula. Obviously it failed (although it did introduce the ISO camera idea to football which is now used in nearly every NFL game nowadays) but it wasn't because the NFL was beating it in attendance or viewership or sponsorship.

 

[salsadancer7]

All the WBC really is, is spring training with prettier uniforms. The pitchers are still on a pitch count, you're not going to see ALL the best players representing their countries for reasons already covered in this thread, and the results mean little to nothing. It's like an all-star game where half the all-stars don't show up.

For those who don't care...that is perfect summary. But if you ask ANYONE playing and those countries that LIVE baseball, like Latin America....that is the typical arrogant American response.

I was at the game last night and it was crazy, loud, emotional, exciting and fun....and MY team lost! The players hustled and showed emotion that resembled game 7 of the World Series....

If there was any question about whether the World Baseball Classic meant something to the players on these two teams Monday night, it was answered in Hernandez's postgame comments.

"That's the biggest game I've ever pitched," he said. "To pitch in these kinds of games, that's what I like. I'm just proud to represent my country in this great tournament.

"Today was the most exciting day of my life."

It showed. The Venezuelans spent most of their night chest-bumping and yelling to the heavens. The most suspenseful moment came in the seventh inning, when the umpires tried to use instant replay on Ramon Hernandez's home run. However, the feed in New York did not work, so the umpires had to make their own ruling, which was a solo homer that gave Venezuela a 2-0 lead.

A celebration ensued, and only grew larger when Venezuela closer Francisco Rodriguez recorded the final out. The celebration was as lively as when a major league team clinches a playoff berth.

Laudelino Mulero flew in from Puerto Rico with his father, his uncle and a friend. They met another group of Puerto Rican fans before Saturday's game, so they exchanged phone numbers and they all met before Monday's game to barbecue, play dominoes and salsa dance.

"If it wasn't for this football stadium in front of me," Mulero, 28, said, "I'd swear we were in Puerto Rico right now."

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3988576"]Amy K. Nelson: Venezuela wins emotional game - ESPN[/ame]

But HEY, what would they know...I mean they are ONLY fans and the players that ACTUALLY play in the game ....

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Nope. Still don't care.

 

[HD MM]

Here's a simple question: If the entire world is so enthused about this international-baseball competition, why was it eliminated from the Olympics?

The Olympics after all is considered the ultimate competition with ancient history where different countries from around the world can compete on the grandest stages.

The WBC seems like a cheap rip-off of a make-shift Olympic competition.

 

[salsadancer7]

Nope. Still don't care.

No worries...so so-called rants are never to change anyone's mind...
Just my opinion....

 

[salsadancer7]

Here's a simple question: If the entire world is so enthused about this international-baseball competition, why was it eliminated from the Olympics?

The Olympics after all is considered the ultimate competition with ancient history where different countries from around the world can compete on the grandest stages.

The WBC seems like a cheap rip-off of a make-shift Olympic competition.

LMAO....! Everyone IS entitled to their opinion....

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Here's a simple question: If the entire world is so enthused about this international-baseball competition, why was it eliminated from the Olympics?

The Olympics after all is considered the ultimate competition with ancient history where different countries from around the world can compete on the grandest stages.

The WBC seems like a cheap rip-off of a make-shift Olympic competition.

Because the timing of participating in the WBC and Olympics conflicts with MLB's season. The NHL is willing to shut it's season down for its players to play, should MLB??