Looking for a satellite finder with Signal and Quality on LCD Screen

[Dee_Ann]

Well I was going to start a thread because I am also shopping for a new meter but I found this one already going so I’m hoping I can jump in on this too?

I have a potpourri of services going here. Of course I have FTA. I also am a D* subscriber as well.

Rather than use the wimpy little dishes that D* provides I went for the thermonuclear MASSIVE OVERKILL option and I use three BIG dishes for D*.
I have two 1m dishes for 110 and 119 and a 1.2m for 129.

On FTA I have a 10’ C-band and I’m building a 1.8m offset minibud for C-band. I have PLL LNBs for each of them.

So, I need a meter that will help me with the following;

1. C-band DVB-S and DVB-S2.. The S2 is a must.
2. KU DBV-S and DVB-S2.. Again, S2 is a must.
3. Dish Network. It must be able to read their stuff, turbo 8psk I believe.
4. Must be able to plug it into my Mac (I can run a windows VM on my Mac) so that I can upgrade the software and edit/change/delete/whatever the satellite lists via my PC.

I despise the method that BirdDog meters uses. I have one of their 1st gen meters (not very useful anymore) and it’s totally clunky and a pain to deal with.
I hate having to go to their site to get files. I have the editing software from them and it’s ancient and clunky too. And it’s not straightforward. It’s actually counterintuitive and confusing.


Anyway...

I need it to identify satellites by reading their ID, indicate a lock, signal strength, BER, C/N, etc..

Having an actual tuner built in that would allow me to watch a channel would be a major bonus but not 100% required.

I have to keep it under $350.. $400 at the absolute most and at that I’m pushing it to the point of that’s gonna hurt me pretty bad financially if I have to go that much with it..

I’ve been looking at two meters and I can’t make up my mind.

http://www.satlink.cn

or

http://www.sat-hero.com/index.php?ac=article&at=read&did=499

With the Satlink brand I am not sure which one would best serve my needs.
What also is not clear with either brand is if they will actually help me align Dish Network stuff. I need to be able to align dishes on any of the Dish birds, especially the HD channels on 129 and 61.5


There is no way possible I can spring for some $700-$800 meter, that’s not even an option at all.

I would like to find a US dealer to buy from, I despise buying direct from China/HK, just because.

A few things I’ve seen mentioned on some of these meters is Constellation and Spectrum analyzers. Do I really need those? How much of a game changer is it to have either or both features? Or to not have either?
Should I really pursue a meter with these features?

I guess the last thing to consider is the situation where there is no such meter that does both FTA S2 - AND - Dish Turbo 8psk. If no such wundermeter exists, then I would assume that I must then purchase two separate meters.
I would need the FTA meter first and could (would have to) put off buying a Dish meter for many months, probably until the end of the year.

If I have to get an FTA only meter, which of the either a Satlink model or a Sat-hero model should I get? I’m leaning towards the [URL="http://www.sat-hero.com/index.php?ac=article&at=read&did=499”]Sat-hero SH-600HD[/URL] but it doesn’t have the Constellation option. Honestly, I don’t even know what that’s about but if it’s a very good option I would like to have it I guess.

Recommendations?

Thanks!

 

[enb141]

By the way I just make sure the satellite finder supports h264, Sathero SH-200+ only supports MPEG2 / MPEG4.

I really got disappointed with sathero because it cannot even tune if is something using h264.

 

[Dee_Ann]

After really digging deep down into the various meters I’ve come to the assumption that I am not going to find one that has an actual tuner/TV built in that “does it all”..

First off, I couldn’t find a US dealer for either the Sat-hero or the Satlink brands. It appears that the only way to get one is to order direct from China.
Of the meters offered by each company, to get one that tunes 8psk MPEG4 and decodes & displays H.264 they are gonna cost at the very least, $350 plus shipping so figure it as being $400 plus.

NOPE.....


Secondly, of all the models offered by the two companies, they do not offer one that does FTA ~and~ Dish 8psk Turbo. So that means I would end up having to buy two meters, one for FTA and one for Dish.
That runs the price waaaaaaaaay up on this whole thing.

There is also the problem with the ones with a tuner/TV built in that you can’t see them in daylight. That annoys me severely.


I do not believe those meters are truly “professional” meters. I believe that they have a few options that professional meters have.
I feel they are extremely overpriced as well. $200, I would shell out for that in a blink. $400, I don’t see the value there.


So, that brings me back to the hunt for a meter that does it all.

My 1st generation Jurassic Birdog doesn’t do me a lot of good in this day and age since things have changed so much since they introduced that model.

I went and looked at a Birdog Ultra and it’s $600 for a new one. I can find used ones for $350. That is back to where I was on my original spending limit.
Beyond any shadow of a doubt, it does do Dish network 8psk Turbo and I would think it would also do C-band and linear KU as well.

The display can be read in bright daylight so that’s a major win right there.

But, I don’t know if it would let me tweak on a specific FTA transponder, say for instance I wanted to tweak a dish specifically to LPBS on SES2.
It’s an S2 signal and it’s that oddball FEC of 3/5.. I kind of doubt that it would lock on to that.

I couldn’t sleep all night thinking it through but then it came to me, I am thinking that in almost every case, even if I can’t lock a specific signal such as that above, I can still lock to another transponder on the same satellite and tweak it properly.
If I did it right then the tuner in the house should have no problem bringing in that S2 signal even if the Birdog can’t, right?

I really hate dragging an extension cord and a tuner and a TV (which I can’t see!) into the yard but I don’t see any way to avoid it. I do not believe that ANYONE is going to make a battery operated meter that will operate a USALS motor and swing a 1m dish back and forth while I try to tweak it.

Anyone have any thoughts on using a Birdog Ultra for FTA & Dish?

 

[Magic Static]

If I had $400 to spend this what I would do..
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/333216-FS-Super-Buddy-29
Can't beat the support!

 

[enb141]

After really digging deep down into the various meters I’ve come to the assumption that I am not going to find one that has an actual tuner/TV built in that “does it all”..

First off, I couldn’t find a US dealer for either the Sat-hero or the Satlink brands. It appears that the only way to get one is to order direct from China.
Of the meters offered by each company, to get one that tunes 8psk MPEG4 and decodes & displays H.264 they are gonna cost at the very least, $350 plus shipping so figure it as being $400 plus.

NOPE.....


Secondly, of all the models offered by the two companies, they do not offer one that does FTA ~and~ Dish 8psk Turbo. So that means I would end up having to buy two meters, one for FTA and one for Dish.
That runs the price waaaaaaaaay up on this whole thing.

There is also the problem with the ones with a tuner/TV built in that you can’t see them in daylight. That annoys me severely.


I do not believe those meters are truly “professional” meters. I believe that they have a few options that professional meters have.
I feel they are extremely overpriced as well. $200, I would shell out for that in a blink. $400, I don’t see the value there.


So, that brings me back to the hunt for a meter that does it all.

My 1st generation Jurassic Birdog doesn’t do me a lot of good in this day and age since things have changed so much since they introduced that model.

I went and looked at a Birdog Ultra and it’s $600 for a new one. I can find used ones for $350. That is back to where I was on my original spending limit.
Beyond any shadow of a doubt, it does do Dish network 8psk Turbo and I would think it would also do C-band and linear KU as well.

The display can be read in bright daylight so that’s a major win right there.

But, I don’t know if it would let me tweak on a specific FTA transponder, say for instance I wanted to tweak a dish specifically to LPBS on SES2.
It’s an S2 signal and it’s that oddball FEC of 3/5.. I kind of doubt that it would lock on to that.

I couldn’t sleep all night thinking it through but then it came to me, I am thinking that in almost every case, even if I can’t lock a specific signal such as that above, I can still lock to another transponder on the same satellite and tweak it properly.
If I did it right then the tuner in the house should have no problem bringing in that S2 signal even if the Birdog can’t, right?

I really hate dragging an extension cord and a tuner and a TV (which I can’t see!) into the yard but I don’t see any way to avoid it. I do not believe that ANYONE is going to make a battery operated meter that will operate a USALS motor and swing a 1m dish back and forth while I try to tweak it.

Anyone have any thoughts on using a Birdog Ultra for FTA & Dish?

About Dish 8PSK turbo you can tune the standard DVB-S transponders.

I got my SATHERO SH-200+ at amazon

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007F7VPIM/?tag=satell01-20

 

[Stargazer]

I was looking at a bunch of meters lately just as you have been Dee Ann and I decided on the Super Buddy 29 because of all the praise I hear about the meter in what it can do and the support and updates they have. It seems to be the favorite among those that need to tune signals in along with installers. I found one on ebay for $300 used. I seen some on ebay that were cheaper that were not the "29" model some as low as $200-250 used. The only difference was that those could power the Directv SWM lnb's in which you probably don't need.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Consumer-Electronics-/293/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=super+buddy

 

[Dee_Ann]

I was looking at a bunch of meters lately just as you have been Dee Ann and I decided on the Super Buddy 29 because of all the praise I hear about the meter in what it can do and the support and updates they have. It seems to be the favorite among those that need to tune signals in along with installers. I found one on ebay for $300 used. I seen some on ebay that were cheaper that were not the "29" model some as low as $200-250 used. The only difference was that those could power the Directv SWM lnb's in which you probably don't need.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Consumer-Electronics-/293/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=super+buddy

I noticed the SB meters do not do S2 at all.

But then again, that may not be a big issue IF it will still let me tweak non S2 signals on the same satellite.

I am guessing that there are no satellites up there that are purely S2 only. I know the SES satellites are a mixture. So if I tweak a dish to some non S2 signal on SES-1 using an SB meter I would assume that when I connect an S2 tuner to that dish that everything will work. Yes?

For some reason I have it stuck in my head that, for instance, to tweak a dish to get the best signal for LPBS on SES-2 I would need to have the meter locked onto that specific frequency, 11807.
My brain is stuck thinking that is the best and only way to do it.

But now I’m trying to shake that out of my brain and I’m trying to latch onto the idea that I can tweak the dish to ANY frequency on SES-2, even non S2 stuff and as long as I’ve done it right, then I will be able to get ALL the channels available that are ITC. Yes?

So in other words, it shouldn’t matter if the meter does S2 or not, I can still tweak to other non S2 frequencies on the same satellite. Right?

I’m starting to think that all those meters with a tuner and a TV built in are not truly professional meters, they are hobbyist meters and they are targeting those that want an ego boost, not a real tool.
Reason I say this is because not one, NOT ONE of those meters can be used to do installs of non FTA stuff such as Dish and Direct.

Personally I have zero need for doing Direct TV stuff, I won’t ever use them and especially if AT&T buys them! NO WAY!
I may however need to help adjust a dish for a friend after a storm or something. I do have a need for Dish, I am a subscriber and have the AT250 package and three very large DIY self installed dishes for it.
I also need to be able to do FTA for myself and my dad. He and I both have a lot of trouble and adjusting his dish without a proper meter is a huge pain in the you know what.

So now I guess it’s down to either a Superbuddy or a Birdog Ultra.

I need to compare the various SB models side by side and alongside a Birdog Ultra, all together.

I can’t even consider buying a new one, that’s not an option. So a refurbished or a used one in good condition is about my only options.

 

[updatelee]

If I had one wish in the FTA field it would be to do away with quality as a %

Snr in dB is an industry standard. Repeatable across any demod.

The simplest argument is this. What's 0% quality and what's 100% quality? It's arbitrary. It could mean anything.

14.0dB is 14.0dB on any receiver, ATSC, satellite, anything. It gives the user a true idea of how good the signal is. % means nothing.

If a meter doesn't display snr it's useless IMO.

UDL

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well I’ve pretty much decided to buy a Superbuddy. I found one NIB for $400.
It’s still wrapped in the original plastic and all the manuals and cords and stuff are still in their unopened bags..
It’s even in the factory box.

I don’t think I’ll find a better deal. I found a lot of them on ebay used for $250-$350 but every single one of them was beat all to hell.
I’m worried about the membrane buttons on them.

For a few dollars more I would rather buy the NIB meter.

Now I don’t know if it’s still for sale and likely won’t know for a day or so but here’s to hoping!

 

[Magic Static]

Tuning 125W Ku may be problematic. It is all S2 except for an occasional feed. So if you could find a used AI Turbo S2 you would be rockin'

 

[Dee_Ann]

Tuning 125W Ku may be problematic. It is all S2 except for an occasional feed. So if you could find a used AI Turbo S2 you would be rockin'

Ah, but, if I tune tweak the dish on the non S2 stuff and do it properly, shouldn’t then the S2 stuff also be coming in fine afterwards?

http://www.sathint.com/amc-21?filter=clear


Sathint shows there are still non S2 signals but I haven’t checked in awhile so I’m unsure how up to date this info is.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I’m hoping I can get this one. Still waiting to hear back from them.

 

[77TA]

Looks like magic is right. Everything that is up 24/7 on 125W shows dvb-s2 on the list. http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?page=125+AMC+21

 

[Dee_Ann]

Looks like magic is right. Everything that is up 24/7 on 125W shows dvb-s2 on the list. http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?page=125+AMC+21

What about 12163, 12168 and 12174 ??

 

[Magic Static]

Well I just looked and I did find one DVBS signal. It's the weakest signal on that sat for me too 12175 H 4444 I don't show any content but I do have a signal

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well I just looked and I did find one DVBS signal. It's the weakest signal on that sat for me too 12175 H 4444 I don't show any content but I do have a signal

WOOT!!

So there is hope. And if I tweak to a weak signal then it stands to reason (in my little brain) that the strong signals ought to really boom on in, yes?

 

[Magic Static]

What about 12163, 12168 and 12174 ??

Those would be where those "occasional feeds" show up But I see the first two are DVBS2 now

 

[77TA]

What about 12163, 12168 and 12174 ??

Those are feeds and not up 24/7. I'm sure there are dvb-s signals there occasionally. The problem would be knowing where and when so you could align a dish.

 

[Magic Static]

WOOT!!

So there is hope. And if I tweak to a weak signal then it stands to reason (in my little brain) that the strong signals ought to really boom on in, yes?

99% of the time that's true. I would think the same. But for example. If you tweak some Ku transponders on 97W you will lose others.

 

[Dee_Ann]

99% of the time that's true. I would think the same. But for example. If you tweak some Ku transponders on 97W you will lose others.

Is that because sometimes they put two satellites in the same orbital slot? Perhaps they are like 20 miles apart but to us down here they appear as a single satellite?




BTW, I searched the known and unknown universe and all the other 10 alternate universes for a used AI Turbo S2 and I found none.

Well, I found a FEW but they were very expensive. $750 and up for a used meter. Ouchy ouch.

Just for fun, I search for the VSAT 7850 and there are exactly zero of them for sale as used, ANYWHERE.

It would be nice to have the S2 compatible meter but it’s just not in the cards for me.


So it looks like that $400 unit will be my best hope.

I’ll just have to try and work around the limitations of not being S2 capable.

Maybe I can supplement it with a low end S2 meter, maybe one of these or something like it connected to the other side of the SB.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SatHero-SH-...r-DVB-S-DVB-S2-8PSK-MPEG4-MPEG2-/271470904675

Or maybe even a SatHero SH-200+... I could buy one of those next month. With that chained behind the Super Buddy I would think that I should be able to find and tweak everything up there.