Looking for ideas and input

[AcWxRadar]

You can not keep the temperature of your bait-fish-tank much higher than the water temperature of the body of water you are going to fish. If the the temperature difference is to much the fish will die very fast on your hook...in minutes or even in seconds,depending on water temperature differences.

If I remember right, the lowest temperature to keep the bio-bacteria alive is around 40 degrees.

The metabolisms of fish slows down the colder the water is and comes to a standstill below 50 degrees or lower, depending of species. So do not overfeed the fish. The less they eat, the less bio-bacteria is needed.
The colder the water the more dissolved oxygen it can hold.

The bait fish I am keeping are quite resilient and can handle some really traumatic shocks. But, that is actually a moot point here because the only time that the water temp of the tank and the water temp of the river where they are going to be used as bait in will differ dramatically will be in winter when I am not going to be fishing. During the spring, summer and fall, the temperature of the tank and the river water temp will be nearly identical.

The fish actually go nearly fully dormant (regarding eating) is around 40°F. But, that is about the same temperature where the Nitrosomonas bacteria die.
Nitrosomas bacteria thrive between roughly 75°F and 85°F.
Therefore, my goal is to maintain the wintertime temperature of the tank system somewhere between 55°F - 65°F during the winter, at least not less than 50°F.

Within this temperature range, the fishes biological activity will not be near zero, but still quite reduced and the Nitrosomonas bacteria will not die, although their growth rate will be reduced by 50-60%. Somewhere in this temperature range there will be that perfect balance and I can experiment over time to adjust my system to regulate the temperature to the optimum level. When spring comes, the heating system would be disabled and the ambient air temp would control the temp of the pond water. The population of the Nitrosomonas bacteria will be alive and ready to take on their full duties once more. I won't have to wait for their population to be reestablished.

RADAR

 

[N0QBH]

You ever see those wind powered pond stirring units that would sit on floats with a vertical shaft running a propeller?
They had vertical vanes to catch the wind that looked like a narrow barrels cut in half. Used to keep the ice open so livestock could drink.
Back in the day they were called PondMaster, but someone else has the trademark now.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I will have to add that I never feed my baitfish during the ON seasons. I keep a lamp over the top of the tank to see by and night insects are attracted to the light, which fly above and even fall into the water. The fish jump out of the water to catch the flying insects and cruise the topwater to catch and eat the unfortunately poor navigators. If I manage to get this system set up for all year operation, I may end up being required to feed these baitfish over the winter, at least on the warmest days anyhow.

The main goal is to keep the tank/pond operating all year long (thus avoiding draining the tanks and winterizing it all), have baitfish ready at the first start of fishing season and have the bacteria cultures ready to do their jobs, too!

I have some money wrapped up in this project already, a few thousand so far, but it is a long term, long lived benefit for me and my fishing business / hobby. I am not only doing this for fun, it is an enterprise for me as I can actually make some profit on this venture by opening a bait shop for the small community where my cabin is. There is no longer any bait shop in the nearby towns that provide this service, so I need to do this for myself and if I set it up right, others will gladly pay me for supplying them with bait and that will defer some of my costs.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

You ever see those wind powered pond stirring units that would sit on floats with a vertical shaft running a propeller?
They had vertical vanes to catch the wind that looked like a narrow barrels cut in half. Used to keep the ice open so livestock could drink.
Back in the day they were called PondMaster, but someone else has the trademark now.

Yes, I think I know exactly what you are referring to. They are called vertical Savonious wind turbines. Very slow movement, but a lot of torque. Perfect for the application to keep the stock tank water open and free from ice.

RADAR

 

[Lak7]

Radar - I have a co-worker that has started collecting the pieces to make a bait tank for himself. Could you Post or PM some pics of your setup and info / tips / websites?
I may even make a small version for Minnows at my lakehouse.

 

[N0QBH]

One of the ingenious things I remember about them was the way they got around a frozen shaft when the wind doesn't blow.
They had it pass through a greased sleeve where it entered the water. As long as the ice didn't freeze deeper than the sleeve, when the wind returned it would start turning and open things up again.
Mike

Yes, I think I know exactly what you are referring to. They are called vertical Savonious wind turbines. Very slow movement, but a lot of torque. Perfect for the application to keep the stock tank water open and free from ice.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

One of the ingenious things I remember about them was the way they got around a frozen shaft when the wind doesn't blow.
They had it pass through a greased sleeve where it entered the water. As long as the ice didn't freeze deeper than the sleeve, when the wind returned it would start turning and open things up again.
Mike

That makes good sense. The paddle or "stirring mechanism" was below the surface. If the surface froze, the sleeve would allow motion through the frozen layer to the paddles and would eventually open the surface through the action of the flowing water. Any movement of the water is departing energy to the water and as long as it is not too cold, it would reopen the surface.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

Radar - I have a co-worker that has started collecting the pieces to make a bait tank for himself. Could you Post or PM some pics of your setup and info / tips / websites?
I may even make a small version for Minnows at my lakehouse.

Lak,

I will have to rephotograph all my equipment and construction over again. I had all my pix saved to a card in my cellphone and last fall I lost my cell phone while goofing off at my neighbors cabin.
I was helping him burn brush in his fire pit and I must have knocked my phone off my jeans pocket and it roasted in the fire. The only thing I found the next day was a square metal border that
enclosed the camera lens! I hadn't transferred any of the pix to my PC so I lost everything on that memory card that was in the cell phone. Therefore, no pix of my stuff until spring.

If you and your coworker friend are highly interested in the research that I have been engaged in so far, I will start compiling information for you and then send it off to you in a PM or even post it here so that others may benefit as well. My bait tank setup is quite extreme. As I stated in an earlier post, I have a few thousand $ tied up in this already. $1,200 was for two 1,000 gallon tanks alone. You guys probably wouldn't desire to get into that large of a system. I didn't mean to buy two tanks initially, but the seller offered me a second tank at a reduced price... I had the cash and I was there, and the tank was there and there was a truck to haul it and he wanted to unload it and I was a fool and I bought it, too! LOL! What the hell!

I've been keeping bait alive at my cabin for years with minimal expense and great success (long life to the baitfish) so if you are very interested in this subject, I would be more than happy to send information your way! This is one of those hobbies that is just as great as my FTA satellite stuff!

I'll have to pool it all together for you and that may take some time, but I think you will find that it is worth it and the worth the wait. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen tonight (I mean this morning now).
Ha Ha.

I have to work 12 hour shifts for the next few days, so I will wait until that is through before I get started on this. It will be fun and I think you will like the information I relay to you.

RADAR

 

[Cham]

We use a small electric air pump and a diffuser to keep our pond aerated and there is an open spot where the bubbles come up during the winter. I've been considering a wind-powered air pump but they are very expensive... If the pond freezes over and no aeration, the fish die and the water gets really stinky... Had that happen a few years ago when the pump quit working while we were away. The pond in question is 250' by 100' and 8'+ deep, we use it as a backup water supply and summer irrigation for our garden so this is a somewhat different scale but maybe would work on the smaller scale too.

In-ground tanks and a cover for overnight/cold weather plus aeration might work to keep the temp up, and some home-made solar collectors made with black PVC pipe facing south might pick up enough heat to make up for losses overnight. You might see these type of collectors on top of buildings and houses to heat swimming pools (maybe not so popular farther south). The heat exchanger idea would have to be incorporated in this system. Some engineering required! I am sure you will get something to work!

 

[AcWxRadar]

Cham,

Sorry I lost track of this post/thread that I started. I didn't see your Jan 20th reply till Feb 5th. Oops.

Can you possibly post some pictures of your pond and your water treatment system in the future? I'd love to see what you have engineered thus far.

RADAR

 

[rv1pop]

My ideas would include solar POWER panels wired to generate a high enough voltage to keep some sort of heater on during good solar times and with enough battery back up to keep a small air pump going all the time. if the heater was float just a little below the surface and the air outlet where needed to keep an air hole open, it should work. if you have a good wind profile, a wind and solar generator powered air pump need not draw so much current to make it as expensive as a wind driven air pump.
Heat loss (btu's to keep an open water patch) may be an issue. But if I read the idea right. insulating the tank building may not be impossible and make the job easier. (my 600 gallon potable water tank will be in a basement, 8 feet deep, top of tank 30 inches below ground level and covered with R39 insulation. Not sure if applicable idea for your project.)

One place I was told about - by a very UNRELIABLE blowhard who said she built a shack on stilts on an Alaska lake so they could fish year all winter without having to drill new holes in the ice every week! Promised pictures but never got any... I do mot think it existed, but the idea?? Panels on the roof, wind generator mounted to the side, batteries and "compressor" inside, propane air heater.... interesting concept, but doable?

If you do use a wind generator, consider running the AC the long distance , rectifying at the point of use.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Hi Radar
Now this is an interesting project. As I see it the big problems are heat loss from tank's water surface area and keeping the 1165 gallons a constant temperature throughout. Insulation is clearly the answer for constant temperature together with water flow. As you say you don't have to bring the temperature up high so most solar heating systems are out, and would be inefficent in winter, save them for the cabin. If the tanks is near to the cabin how about using a pumped cabin air through a sealed bottom of the tank heat exchanger that is near enough the size of the tank dimensions. You could use averaging stats in the tank to ensure temperature control throughout or even just measure the return air temperature. you could also seperately aerate the tank with cabin air (assuming it is smoke free or filtered).