Lost Signal When I Added Second Line (1 Viewer)

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BrianSD

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Sep 21, 2005
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Hello,

I am in the process of installing DirecTV in my home. I installed a double coax jack and connected that to a double coax grounding block outside my home. I then ran a single, long line from my grounding block to my dish and was able to get varying signals up to 76 (sat 101). I then bolted the dish into place and the 76 signal remained.

Because I will be feeding two receivers, I cut the line between the dish and the grounding block, added F-connectors and made that original long line from the dish to the grounding block into two shorter lines. I connected both of these lines to my grounding block and to two of the four fittings on my triple LNB. Since doing that, I have been unable to obtain a signal with either line.

I have checked my fittings and my connections, and everything seems to be in order. I tried removing the second line from my dish to my grounding block, but to no avail. I cannot get a signal with any dish orientation, and am at a loss at this point. I am using all RG-6 coax with ground wire, and my two lines running from my dish to my grounding block are tied to my downspout (along with a 300 ohm antenna line from an old 1960's vintage antenna on my roof) with wire ties.

Any advice on getting back my signal would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Brian
Brookings, SD
 
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briansanders007

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 24, 2003
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If you don't have one. pick up a sat finder and plug them into each line and see at what point you loose the signal. That's the best way to troubleshoot and they are inexpensive but will save you a lot of time...or I guess you could take a small portable tv/receiver and see at what point you loose the signal. Check and make sure the connections are tight at the grounding block. Maybe you made the rg6 cable too short (copper wire) and it doesn't not make conact with the grounding block. No splitters, etc.

You will want more than a 76 signal due to rain fade unless of course it was raining when you put the dish up than when weather clears it should go up. I would should in the upper 80's\90's.
 

BrianSD

Thread Starter
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Sep 21, 2005
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Brian,

Thank you for the suggestions. I will pick up a signal finder. I checked the connections and they are all tight. Last night, I took off my F-connectors from the cables entering the grounding block and stripped back more insulation to lengthen the copper wire. I had thought that maybe my wires were too short to make a good connection in the grounding block, as you'd suggested. However, this had no effect.

What's odd is that when I initially had one cable connected, it wasn't hard to find a signal, but it was hard to find a strong one. Now that I've modified my equipment to have two cables, I can get absolutely nothing anywhere. It seems like something is fundamentally wrong, but I don't know what.


Sheridan,

Not a dumb question at all. The line was not connected to the grounding block when I cut it. I had a single long cable with F-connectors at both ends. In order to get my lengths equal, I connected both F-connectors to fittings on the LNB. This made a loop of cable with both ends terminating at the LNB. I then cut both shorter cables to an equal length and salvaged about 10' from the loop.
 

uboatcmdr

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 4, 2005
297
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Alabama
BrianSD said:
Brian,

Thank you for the suggestions. I will pick up a signal finder. I checked the connections and they are all tight. Last night, I took off my F-connectors from the cables entering the grounding block and stripped back more insulation to lengthen the copper wire. I had thought that maybe my wires were too short to make a good connection in the grounding block, as you'd suggested. However, this had no effect.

What's odd is that when I initially had one cable connected, it wasn't hard to find a signal, but it was hard to find a strong one. Now that I've modified my equipment to have two cables, I can get absolutely nothing anywhere. It seems like something is fundamentally wrong, but I don't know what.


Sheridan,

Not a dumb question at all. The line was not connected to the grounding block when I cut it. I had a single long cable with F-connectors at both ends. In order to get my lengths equal, I connected both F-connectors to fittings on the LNB. This made a loop of cable with both ends terminating at the LNB. I then cut both shorter cables to an equal length and salvaged about 10' from the loop.

Did you use those screw on type connectors (ones available at most stores like Lowe's, Home Depot, Radio Shack or Wal-mart) on the coax? If so, check to see that the braided wire just under the outside insulation is making good contact with the body of the conector and that none of the strands are wrapped around the stinger (center wire). If none of the braided wire is making contact then you will get no signal. I run into this problem often while doing installs on new pre-wired houses.
 

BrianSD

Thread Starter
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Sep 21, 2005
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Great suggestion, Uboat. I was generally not careful to keep the braided shielding away from the center wire, so I will take a look at all of my homemade fittings.
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
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Dorchester, TX.
raymo721 said:
Uboat, this might be a dumb question but why does the braided wire have to make contact with the connector? I thought it was just sheilding.---Ray
Think of it as an electrical circuit the center conductor takes it out the braid brings it back to complete the circuit. :)
 

deezoneezo

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 31, 2004
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I still don't understand what this means: "Because I will be feeding two receivers, I cut the line between the dish and the grounding block, added F-connectors and made that original long line from the dish to the grounding block into two shorter lines. I connected both of these lines to my grounding block and to two of the four fittings on my triple LNB. Since doing that, I have been unable to obtain a signal with either line." What do you mean you made one long line into 2 short ones? HUH Why did you do this? I don't get it. Can you draw me a picture?
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
803
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Okay, Did you just split the cable using a Coax splitter? If you did, this is your problem! You cannot just split the cables. You need to run two separate cables from the LNBs or switches to the receivers.

See ya
Tony
 

briansanders007

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 24, 2003
295
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I feel for ya. I run into weird problems like this all the time with my gear. maybe check and see if the wire is actually connected to the lnb. if you can't see the wire untill you take off the lnb housing it could have slipped out of the crimp if you were using the crimpon\twist on f connectors. happened to me until I started using good compression fittings.


BrianSD said:
Brian,

Thank you for the suggestions. I will pick up a signal finder. I checked the connections and they are all tight. Last night, I took off my F-connectors from the cables entering the grounding block and stripped back more insulation to lengthen the copper wire. I had thought that maybe my wires were too short to make a good connection in the grounding block, as you'd suggested. However, this had no effect.

What's odd is that when I initially had one cable connected, it wasn't hard to find a signal, but it was hard to find a strong one. Now that I've modified my equipment to have two cables, I can get absolutely nothing anywhere. It seems like something is fundamentally wrong, but I don't know what.


Sheridan,

Not a dumb question at all. The line was not connected to the grounding block when I cut it. I had a single long cable with F-connectors at both ends. In order to get my lengths equal, I connected both F-connectors to fittings on the LNB. This made a loop of cable with both ends terminating at the LNB. I then cut both shorter cables to an equal length and salvaged about 10' from the loop.
 

BrianSD

Thread Starter
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Sep 21, 2005
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deezoneezo said:
I still don't understand what this means: "Because I will be feeding two receivers, I cut the line between the dish and the grounding block, added F-connectors and made that original long line from the dish to the grounding block into two shorter lines. I connected both of these lines to my grounding block and to two of the four fittings on my triple LNB. Since doing that, I have been unable to obtain a signal with either line." What do you mean you made one long line into 2 short ones? HUH Why did you do this? I don't get it. Can you draw me a picture?

I made one long line into two short ones by cutting it in half. I bought 75' of RG6 when I began this project, and I've been cutting off pieces (and adding F-connectors) as necessary to span my distances. When I mounted the dish, I chose a location off my first floor roofline (I have a split roof). My backup location was my second floor roofline. Until I was sure I could get a signal from the lower location, I left my coax long (had about 35' left), just in case I needed to reach the greater height. Once I got a signal on the lower location, I cut my 35' length into two 15' pieces and one 5' piece. The two 15' pieces became the lines that I actually ran from the dish to the grounding block. Hope that clears it up.
 
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BrianSD

Thread Starter
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Sep 21, 2005
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TNGTony said:
Okay, Did you just split the cable using a Coax splitter? If you did, this is your problem! You cannot just split the cables. You need to run two separate cables from the LNBs or switches to the receivers.

See ya
Tony


No, I haven't split any of the cables. I have two separate lines going from the dish to the grounding block, and from the block to a double jack. From the jack, I will feed one receiver on my first story and one in my basement.
 

raoul5788

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BrianSD said:
I made one long line into two short ones by cutting it in half. I bought 75' of RG6 when I began this project, and I've been cutting off pieces (and adding F-connectors) as necessary to span my distances. When I mounted the dish, I chose a location off my first floor roofline (I have a split roof). My backup location was my second floor roofline. Until I was sure I could get a signal from the lower location, I left my coax long (had about 35' left), just in case I needed to reach the greater height. Once I got a signal on the lower location, I cut my 35' length into two 15' pieces and one 5' piece. The two 15' pieces became the lines that I actually ran from the dish to the grounding block. Hope that clears it up.

All the extra connections aren't helping with your signal loss.

Chip
 

uboatcmdr

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 4, 2005
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Alabama
raymo721 said:
Uboat, this might be a dumb question but why does the braided wire have to make contact with the connector? I thought it was just sheilding.---Ray

For cable the braided wire is just used for sheilding, but for satellite it is used as Bobo said.
If I ever run into a dead coax type problem on a new house that is pre-wired, the first thing I do is pull the wall plates and see what if any connectors were used. If they used the screw on connectors nine times out of ten the electrician didn't properly strip the coax. The improperly stripped coax might work okay for cable, but when trying to use it for satellite it just appears to be a dead line.
 

sksatellite

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Sep 7, 2003
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BrianSD said:
Brian,


What's odd is that when I initially had one cable connected, it wasn't hard to find a signal, but it was hard to find a strong one. Now that I've modified my equipment to have two cables, I can get absolutely nothing anywhere. It seems like something is fundamentally wrong, but I don't know what.


Sheridan,

Not a dumb question at all. The line was not connected to the grounding block when I cut it. I had a single long cable with F-connectors at both ends. In order to get my lengths equal, I connected both F-connectors to fittings on the LNB. This made a loop of cable with both ends terminating at the LNB. I then cut both shorter cables to an equal length and salvaged about 10' from the loop.
If your original signal not strong enough, that because the dish is not plump or off track a bit. If your phase 3 LNB is made from Aspen Eagel. do not terminate the other empty outlet, I do have lots problem when I did the terminateion on Aspen product.

If the center conductor is too short from the connector, it may not be making any actual contact when use on the F-connector, or if any small piece of the outer shiel did contact the center contuctor, the whole system will be disable or not work at all. If you did not moved the dish, there must be one of the above causes.
 

BrianSD

Thread Starter
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Sep 21, 2005
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raoul5788 said:
All the extra connections aren't helping with your signal loss.

Chip


For a given receiver, my path looks like this:

1 cable from dish to grounding block
1 cable from grounding block to wall jack
1 cable from wall jack to receiver

Is this too many? If so, I'll need to eliminate either the wall jack or the grounding block.
 

ShadowEKU

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Jul 13, 2004
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BrianSD said:
For a given receiver, my path looks like this:

1 cable from dish to grounding block
1 cable from grounding block to wall jack
1 cable from wall jack to receiver

Is this too many? If so, I'll need to eliminate either the wall jack or the grounding block.

nah not with distances less than 75' if you are using those screw on connectors though I suggest a good crimping tool or better a Compression connector.

It sounds like the oustide braid is touching te inside conductor. check that first.

another dumb question... a receiver wasnt plugged into the line when you connected it to the lnb was it?
 

briansanders007

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Nov 24, 2003
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Just to clear things up:

You should have your reciever unplugged before connecting\reconnecting the RG6 to the switch or satellite. correct? It can fry something?
 

ShadowEKU

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briansanders007 said:
Just to clear things up:

You should have your reciever unplugged before connecting\reconnecting the RG6 to the switch or satellite. correct? It can fry something?

Oh yeah

Generally speaking you run a more than 50% chance of blowing the LNB.
 
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