Lots of RV/Boat Customers are going to be UPSET (1 Viewer)

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Jimbo

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thats quite a few people, they will most likley need a new dish also
I would be interested in knowing how many of these people have mpeg2 only recvrs ...
I'm thinking a good number of those with SD recvrs have MPEG4 recvrs on the account as well.

For example, they may have a Genie in main room, a hr24 in the Master bedroom and sd recvrs in the other rooms that don't get used much.

VS

How many of these accounts are strictly SD only with MPED2 recvrs ...

I'm sure there are plenty that would be effected with SD only recvs, but I bet its around maybe 10%.
 

slice1900

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I would be interested in knowing how many of these people have mpeg2 only recvrs ...
I'm thinking a good number of those with SD recvrs have MPEG4 recvrs on the account as well.

For example, they may have a Genie in main room, a hr24 in the Master bedroom and sd recvrs in the other rooms that don't get used much.

VS

How many of these accounts are strictly SD only with MPED2 recvrs ...

I'm sure there are plenty that would be effected with SD only recvs, but I bet its around maybe 10%.

In December 2013 25% of Directv's customers were MPEG2 only, and some unknown larger number had a mix of MPEG2 and MPEG4. Obviously that has shrunk since then, but we can only guess how many they have now.
 

slice1900

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thats quite a few people, they will most likley need a new dish also

That depends on whether Directv carries MPEG4 SD duplicates of everything on 101 or they do away with SD duplicates. There are good arguments for both, and neither is a perfect solution...we'll just have to wait and see which way they're going.
 

Don in CT

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That depends on whether Directv carries MPEG4 SD duplicates of everything on 101 or they do away with SD duplicates. There are good arguments for both, and neither is a perfect solution...we'll just have to wait and see which way they're going.

I don’t understand why SD is anywhere anymore. There is enough HD saturation now where standard Def channels can be shut down for good. Free up the bandwidth for 4K.
 
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Jimbo

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I don’t understand why SD is anywhere anymore. There is enough HD saturation now where standard Def channels can be shut down for good. Free up the bandwidth for 4K.
While that is true ... what would you think if one day you woke up and turned your TV on to a message that said anyone without mpeg4 recvrs loses signal ...
We are sorry to inform you that you do not have a mpeg4 recvr (mpeg2 SD is yours) ... your service has been cancelled.
 

slice1900

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I don’t understand why SD is anywhere anymore. There is enough HD saturation now where standard Def channels can be shut down for good. Free up the bandwidth for 4K.

Free up the bandwidth for 4K? They have 36 unused transponders in reverse band that could handle over 50 4K channels. There will never be that many.
 
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HoTat2

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While that is true ... what would you think if one day you woke up and turned your TV on to a message that said anyone without mpeg4 recvrs loses signal ...
We are sorry to inform you that you do not have a mpeg4 recvr (mpeg2 SD is yours) ... your service has been cancelled.
Yeah ...

And I imagine they'd be even madder in such a scenario since many won't understand what "MPEG4" even means ...

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 

Don in CT

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While that is true ... what would you think if one day you woke up and turned your TV on to a message that said anyone without mpeg4 recvrs loses signal ...
We are sorry to inform you that you do not have a mpeg4 recvr (mpeg2 SD is yours) ... your service has been cancelled.

Do you really think they would cancel peoples service for older equipment. Guarantee they offer free upgrades. Why any provider still allows SD is asinine. Just down-convert HD to those with older sets.
 

raoul5788

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Do you really think they would cancel peoples service for older equipment. Guarantee they offer free upgrades. Why any provider still allows SD is asinine. Just down-convert HD to those with older sets.
No doubt they will offer mpeg4 equipment with no charge or commitment.
 
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Claude Greiner

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Core channels will most likely move to the 101 KU from 103 & 99 KA. At least that's the plan from my understanding. Locals that were on 119 will be on your local spot at 99 or 103. If you have a boat / rv you can apply for the national DNS channels out of NYC or LA depending on what side of the Mississippi you're on and get network content that way. 119 is going away, as well as internationals on Gal 3C will be moving in the future as well. 119 really isn't needed anymore, and I'm sure Echostar would be chomping at the bit to do a deal for those transponders as that's their core slot as well.

No way Directv would abandon 110 or 119, when they have a simple LNB configuration to take advantage of it.

I could see 95 going away and everything moving to 110/119.

If Directv abandoned 110/119, Dish would gain 14 frequencies they could put to use immediately, which would increase their bandwidth 28% overnight. Not gonna happen.

If anything Dish is going to pay up the A$$ If they want the transponder space, or AT&T will swap them for some cell phone spectrum which will work out good for both companies.

IMHO, I think Directv will need any satellite capacity they can get their hands on to be able to provide 4K service.

I think 4K was using 2.5 4K Channels per transponder
 

Jimbo

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No way Directv would abandon 110 or 119, when they have a simple LNB configuration to take advantage of it.

I could see 95 going away and everything moving to 110/119.

If Directv abandoned 110/119, Dish would gain 14 frequencies they could put to use immediately, which would increase their bandwidth 28% overnight. Not gonna happen.

If anything Dish is going to pay up the A$$ If they want the transponder space, or AT&T will swap them for some cell phone spectrum which will work out good for both companies.

IMHO, I think Directv will need any satellite capacity they can get their hands on to be able to provide 4K service.

I think 4K was using 2.5 4K Channels per transponder
Even if it is, how many channels do you see in reality going to 4k ?
 

slice1900

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No way Directv would abandon 110 or 119, when they have a simple LNB configuration to take advantage of it.

I could see 95 going away and everything moving to 110/119.

If Directv abandoned 110/119, Dish would gain 14 frequencies they could put to use immediately, which would increase their bandwidth 28% overnight. Not gonna happen.

If anything Dish is going to pay up the A$$ If they want the transponder space, or AT&T will swap them for some cell phone spectrum which will work out good for both companies.

IMHO, I think Directv will need any satellite capacity they can get their hands on to be able to provide 4K service.

I think 4K was using 2.5 4K Channels per transponder


According to Stuart Sweet, Directv officially announced to dealers that 119 was going away. Dish doesn't gain anything by Directv dropping 110/119, from what I've been led to understand about the FCC licensing rules Directv just needs something up there occupying at least one of their licensed transponders in a slot to maintain control of them. They can leave the satellites at 110/119 in place until T16 launches and a new satellite is at 101, then move D8 from 101 to 119 to keep a hold on that. D8 has fuel life until 2034, that's a long time for Dish to wait. Not sure if Directv could easily hold 110, but its only three transponders so probably not worth them caring about.

Even if Directv abandoned these slots completely, it isn't clear how long they must be abandoned before the FCC would allow someone else to request use of them. Dish wouldn't be able to "put them to use immediately". I imagine Directv could do some delaying tactics to drag it out for years. At any rate, the satellite at 119 is licensed to mid 2021, and may well have fuel life after that. Directv just needs something to occupy one or more transponders...they don't need to have any customers receiving what is being broadcast.

I'm not sure whether Directv can actually transfer these licenses to Dish (when this sort of thing happened in the past where Directv picked up additional transponders they were buying a whole company) If it is possible, I'm sure AT&T would be willing to listen to Dish's offer though they could decide to only sell at a ridiculous price Dish wouldn't be willing to pay. If they can't actually sell them, they could have Dish pay for Directv to abandon them and immediately notify the FCC they want to terminate those transponder licenses to pave the way for Dish to get them more quickly (it wouldn't be guaranteed Dish would get them if someone else requested them, though that seems unlikely)

Currently Directv is using 1 4K channel per transponder. The plan as I understand it (from what Directv's former CTO said a few years ago) when they go to reverse band is they'll bond pairs of transponders and carry three channels - thus 54 channels on the 36 reverse band transponders. Others have claimed they will bond three transponders though I haven't seen any reference to that from Directv. It really doesn't matter though, it would probably be somewhere between 48 and 60 4K channels on those 36 transponders with a three transponder bonding.

IMHO there's very little chance there will ever be 48 4K channels, given that we are still at ZERO nearly three years after Directv was first able to deliver 4K. Directv is ready, but there is no HBO or ESPN or FS1 or NatGeo or any of the other channels people expected to see go 4K first - not only are they not there they haven't even announced any definite plans! The total number of channels will probably shrink quite a bit over the next 5-10 years, more people using VOD means having a lot of channels carrying the same stuff is unnecessary, so there will be HD bandwidth freed up over time if 4K ever starts catching on.
 

Claude Greiner

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According to Stuart Sweet, Directv officially announced to dealers that 119 was going away. Dish doesn't gain anything by Directv dropping 110/119, from what I've been led to understand about the FCC licensing rules Directv just needs something up there occupying at least one of their licensed transponders in a slot to maintain control of them. They can leave the satellites at 110/119 in place until T16 launches and a new satellite is at 101, then move D8 from 101 to 119 to keep a hold on that. D8 has fuel life until 2034, that's a long time for Dish to wait. Not sure if Directv could easily hold 110, but its only three transponders so probably not worth them caring about.

Even if Directv abandoned these slots completely, it isn't clear how long they must be abandoned before the FCC would allow someone else to request use of them. Dish wouldn't be able to "put them to use immediately". I imagine Directv could do some delaying tactics to drag it out for years. At any rate, the satellite at 119 is licensed to mid 2021, and may well have fuel life after that. Directv just needs something to occupy one or more transponders...they don't need to have any customers receiving what is being broadcast.

I'm not sure whether Directv can actually transfer these licenses to Dish (when this sort of thing happened in the past where Directv picked up additional transponders they were buying a whole company) If it is possible, I'm sure AT&T would be willing to listen to Dish's offer though they could decide to only sell at a ridiculous price Dish wouldn't be willing to pay. If they can't actually sell them, they could have Dish pay for Directv to abandon them and immediately notify the FCC they want to terminate those transponder licenses to pave the way for Dish to get them more quickly (it wouldn't be guaranteed Dish would get them if someone else requested them, though that seems unlikely)

Currently Directv is using 1 4K channel per transponder. The plan as I understand it (from what Directv's former CTO said a few years ago) when they go to reverse band is they'll bond pairs of transponders and carry three channels - thus 54 channels on the 36 reverse band transponders. Others have claimed they will bond three transponders though I haven't seen any reference to that from Directv. It really doesn't matter though, it would probably be somewhere between 48 and 60 4K channels on those 36 transponders with a three transponder bonding.

IMHO there's very little chance there will ever be 48 4K channels, given that we are still at ZERO nearly three years after Directv was first able to deliver 4K. Directv is ready, but there is no HBO or ESPN or FS1 or NatGeo or any of the other channels people expected to see go 4K first - not only are they not there they haven't even announced any definite plans! The total number of channels will probably shrink quite a bit over the next 5-10 years, more people using VOD means having a lot of channels carrying the same stuff is unnecessary, so there will be HD bandwidth freed up over time if 4K ever starts catching on.

What do you mean “dish wouldn’t put them up use immediately”

If dish was allowed to use the frequencies, they could fire up one of the in orbit spare satellites and use them pretty fast.

Besides that, back in 1999 when Dish got the license at the 110 slot, Dish actually illegally used the 11 transponders at 119 for a few months that where owned by prime star at the time.

Here is what happened if nobody remembers....

Charlie acquired the 110 orbital location from Rupert Murdoch in 1999 but at the time there was no satellite at 110 as echostar 5 and 6 had not been finished being build.

Echostar4 was at 148 and was being used for international and I believe some locals.

They needed to move echostar 4 to 110, and abandon 148. But they had customers who had programming on 148.

So what Dish did was that since most customers who had a 148 Dish also had a 119 Dish, was to simply cram everything on 119.

The only issue was the customers loosing service where the ones who only had 148, in which dish quickly sent out techs to repoint dishes.

What dish never told anyone was that the only way they where able to cram everything on 119 was because they illegally used prime stars 11 transponders at 119 that where not in use.

Nobody ever found out while this was going on.

There was plenty of capacity on echostar 1 and 2 at time at 119 to pull this off
 
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slice1900

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What do you mean “dish wouldn’t put them up use immediately”

If dish was allowed to use the frequencies, they could fire up one of the in orbit spare satellites and use them pretty fast.


Oh I agree with that, their satellites have the transponder hardware so IF they got permission from the FCC they could use them right away. What I'm saying is that unless Dish makes some sort of deal with Directv to buy the transponder licenses (if the FCC will allow such a transfer) or otherwise constructively turn them over, they can keep control of them for years if not decades if they want to keep them out of Dish's hands. Which I think they would, as why should they make life easier for a competitor, especially with all the times Charlie went out of his way to try to screw Directv (the whole thing with the reverse band transponders at 103 being only the latest example, which the FCC finally spiked recently)

Directv simply not using them for their customers any longer is not enough, not by a longshot, for Dish to be able to acquire the right to use them.
 

Claude Greiner

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Exactly, Directv is not going to make things any easier for Dish especially When bandwidth is already at a premium.

Only way I could see transponders given to Dish would be for wireless spectrum given to ATT in exchange.

Dish would rather have transponder space and ATT would rather have wireless frequencies.

What I never got with Directv is why they never required 110/119 as part of a standard install.

You install a slimline Dish, what difference and cost is it to use a SL3 vs a SL5 Dish
 
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slice1900

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Because LOS can be a problem for some people with 110/119, so why fail those installs if there's nothing on 119 for most customers?
 
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