More HD to move from 61.5 to 72.7?

[SpaethCo]

So what we've got is Dish giving the channels to some people at no charge and withholding them from others who pay the same amount of money/month.

If you've followed any of the TurboHD threads, then you'd see this is SOP for Dish.

In all seriousness though, the channels aren't being withheld. People who are not getting them just need some equipment tweaks to get them.

Yes, I realize your graph was based on percentages, the question is when do you think Dish will reach 15-20% of their saturation, if it has not already.

I believe they're already there.

Dish does have options besides requiring customers to upgrade, or waiting on E*15. If E*6 is indeed heading for the 61.5 slot, as it appears to be, they can provide the missing HD as originally intended.

E*6 will apparently have coverage issues operating at 61.5, so even if they fire it up it will still suck for some percentage of the subscriber base operating in the margins of the coverage footprint.

If Dish decides that it's in their best interest to move all HD from 61.5 to 72.7 then that's their call and it has nothing to do with the technology.

This is strictly a business decision and not the fault of the customer and they should not be required to pay for the upgrade.

If the number of subscribers who need new equipment is indeed a small percentage then a company like Dish should be able to write it off as "the cost of doing business"

Sure. On that point I agree -- Dish should not remove programming from customers without providing them with a solution... but we're not there yet. This is all still very new information that they plan on rolling things over to 72.7.

The great thing I like about SatelliteGuys is the advance inside info, but I think folks on this forum tend to have unrealistic expectations around the information being leaked here. You've got people taking an email that was just leaked in the last 72 hours and are calling up the poor help desk script readers asking "so when am I getting my upgrade?"

I can tell you from my experience of spending 15 years in enterprise IT for a few different Fortune 100 companies it just doesn't work that quickly. It usually starts with a lead architecture group setting some type of direction or initiative, and then the pieces slowly get implemented down the line to actually carry out the work to make it happen.

I just don't think it's going to be a case where one day you'll turn on your TV and a bunch of channels will be gone. (unless E*3 completely fails) I would expect in the coming months that Dish will put something together to get affected folks converted well in advance of the shutoff date. Think of something along the lines of the smartcard rollout.

 

[oiltrain]

Postings above are correct in the apparent non communication with DISH and the retailers/installers. I just had a Dish tech here on site in the last 1/2 hr to change my 110/118/119 & 61.5 wing dish to the 118 wing & 61.5/72.7/77 Sat configs. Seems Dish wants to use a new EA dish that has a built in switch. They want to eliminate the DPP44 switch.Everyone above is correct.Tthey do not want the hybrid setups everyone descibes prior and we all know that exist. My God, in NW PA south of Erie where I live its the perpetual mountains and the trees. I can not hit the 129 SAT, its too low on the horizon and I do not want a 12ft + pole in my front yard. So long story short nothing was changed today. He did not know how to feed a wing dish LNB input into the switch on the EA new dish. Also I do not wish to lose my PGH HD locals that are on SAT 118. So we wait or do we just look for the best possible swith to Directv?!

 

[SpaethCo]

He did not know how to feed a wing dish LNB input into the switch on the EA new dish.

You attach the cable to where it says "LNB IN"

It should be pretty straight forward -- all the tech should have needed to do is replace the 61.5 wing dish with a 1000.4 and fed the 118W LNB from your 500+ dish into the LNB in port on the 1000.4.

 

[bwinroc]

I'm not sure what kind of setup you have as Dish500+ is not a 61.5/72/77 satellite. The 1000.4 is. I'd take a look at the dishes and look in your receivers system info to see what you have.

When the installer came out, he told me that his boss told him to try and use the 500+ plus to get all three, some sort of experiment. That in the next month or so they are going to be coming out with a "Border Dish" which they think is really just a 500+ with "a new sticker" as he said.

Attached is a pic, and I know for a fact I am pointed at 61, 72 and 77 from my check switch screen.

In the end I find it humorous that Dish is telling retailers not to do funky installs, yet their own contractors are doing them.

 

[oiltrain]

I agree, but sometimes after 58 yrs and a head of gray hair you know when to stop trying to make a point. You can dress them up but you can't take them out!

 

[nlk10010]

If you've followed any of the TurboHD threads, then you'd see this is SOP for Dish.

In all seriousness though, the channels aren't being withheld. People who are not getting them just need some equipment tweaks to get them.

-snip-

Well, TurboHD is an additional issue that dents Dish's reputation. But that's another topic.

We can disagree amicably but let me ask you: how do you distinguish between "withholding" and "need[ing] some equipment tweaks to get them"? If the affected subscribers continue to act as they have up to now (and as others are) these certain people won't get the new HD channels. And if these were, as you imply, "tweaks" then Dish should have already provided them, free of charge, to everyone that was affected. After all, you're implying they're "no big deal", right? So Dish's actions are indistinguishable from withholding.

 

[Commissioner]

Just got off the phone with CSR and they are switching my current setup of a 110/118/119 and 61.5 wing dish to a 1000 + (single dish) at no charge in order to receive the new HD. I'll receive 129/110/118/119. Hopefully it will all work out!:up

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Let us know how you make out.

To others that did the upgrade, I want to hear about it tonight on the SatelliteGuys Radio Show! I want to see how things are going out there.

Check the homepage for details then tune in and I will give out our toll free number so you can call in and tell us how your upgrade went.

 

[SpaethCo]

how do you distinguish between "withholding" and "need[ing] some equipment tweaks to get them"?

I think it all comes down to intent. In the case of the TurboHD packages, someone at the programming level made the conscious decision to omit channels from the packages, thus requiring a higher MRC commitment to get access to certain channels. In the case of the new HD, it's simply a matter of technician labor or parts in a one-time fixed cost to get access to the channels.

If the affected subscribers continue to act as they have up to now (and as others are) these certain people won't get the new HD channels. And if these were, as you imply, "tweaks" then Dish should have already provided them, free of charge, to everyone that was affected. After all, you're implying they're "no big deal", right?

I have no doubt that people will get access to the channels, the only question is when. Eventually they'll put together the necessary training materials for their field techs and retailers, put the codes into the billing system to handle the re-points (so they can track expenses specifically to this initiative), and they'll start identifying affected customers through installation records, receiver call-home reports, or by running crawlers on the national HD broadcasts on 61.5. Unfortunately all that stuff takes time to setup.

Do you think they should have delayed launching any new channels until they got every last person sorted out?

 

[mojonba]

Does anybody know if 72.7 can be received in Puerto Rico with a 6'dish? What about 77?

 

[nlk10010]

-snip-
Do you think they should have delayed launching any new channels until they got every last person sorted out?

As I've said before, they almost certainly knew about this changeover for a long time (whatever long is). A corporation the size of Dish doesn't make this kind of decision without a lot of planning. So the least they could have done was to notify in advance those who would be affected (much like the cable companies do). That's #1. #2, they should have mirrored the additional channels on 110/119 (if at all possible) or plan to put them up on 61.5 when the new sat gets there. As I've said before, there's nothing out there to indicate neither of these approaches was possible.

Don't create two classes of subscribers unless you do a lot of spadework to make sure neither gets p****d off. At least don't do something like that if you want to earn my business.

It's not the end of the world to pay $15 to get new dishes if it can be done, relatively quickly. But with the snow in the NE and Mid-Atlantic and the heavier dish it becomes a bit problematic.

Do you think Dish should keep quiet about the new channels because they figure that what subscribers don't know won't hurt them? So far I haven't seen a single piece of information released to those subscribers about the situation.

 

[RadioDaniel]

I currently have a 61/110/119 setup with Dish top 200 Silver HD. Don't have line of sight to 129

I had them come out but they said they wouldn't do a 61/72/77 setup. I am now reading that it is possible but how do I convince them to do it?

I have to keep 61 for my RSN in HD. Really don't want to lose that. Do I have to keep my Locals in SD off the Dish for the listing to show up for my OTA antenna? If so I would have to keep 110.

 

[Jim S.]

So if they don't want people doing weird setups, when are they going to move the Scranton HD locals to a beam that the whole DMA can get? We've already heard on the board here from two people who tried it and couldn't get the SD PBS, CW, or MyNetwork because their receivers wouldn't fall over to 119 when they failed on 61.5. So if that sort of setup isn't allowable, then we won't even have any locals at all.

 

[digiblur]

Does anybody know if 72.7 can be received in Puerto Rico with a 6'dish? What about 77?

I don't think so on 72.7, not sure about 77. Check out the SatMaps link at the top of the forum page.

I believe the HD for PR is on 110 spotbeams. I know there are several TP's that will be lit up on the first round for E-14(119) spotbeams.

 

[starcrossedpimp]

I have a 110/119/61.5 MDU setup on the roof of our condo building and im SOL, its gonna cost me 100 bucks to get a new dish up guess its back to crappy old time warner for me.

 

[Hunter Mackenzie]

I have 119/110/61.5 now....if I wanted to keep the 119/110 and add EA Would this work bring the the 3 feed from the EA and the 1 feed from the 119/110 to a DP44 switch?...or just add a single DISH 300 for just 72.7 into a DP 44?.....how important is the 77 location? whats on there and what might be there inthe future?

 

[SpaethCo]

As I've said before, they almost certainly knew about this changeover for a long time (whatever long is). A corporation the size of Dish doesn't make this kind of decision without a lot of planning.

I think you're seeing "Plan B" rolling into action here. The HD that just got cranked up has been on TMP channels since December, and was originally on 61.5. Once they lost another TP on E*3 in January, I think it was a scramble to figure out what to do. The paperwork to move E*6 into position was just filed at the beginning of this month, and that has the "to be used in an emergency only" stipulation that goes with it. I'm guessing most of the issue there is that E*6 isn't a fully suitable replacement for E*3 due to footprint issues. If anything more on E*3 kacks, even if they fire up TPs on E*6 there are going to be pockets of people who will lose service entirely from 61.5.

#2, they should have mirrored the additional channels on 110/119 (if at all possible)

As has been reported here, there are a number of other plans in the works for 110/119. 119 is getting a new bird in a few weeks to add some redundancy, and Dish needs to start planning for playing the Tower of Hanoi game there as they transition from QPSK/MPEG2 to 8PSK-Turbo/MPEG4 to get more bandwidth per TP and more efficient compression. Without knowing the full strategy they have in place for 110/119 it's impossible to say why things got distributed the way they did.

Do you think Dish should keep quiet about the new channels because they figure that what subscribers don't know won't hurt them? So far I haven't seen a single piece of information released to those subscribers about the situation.

I don't think Dish should be going out of their way to contact customers until they have everything setup to handle the situation. They need to get to a point where they can send a communication that says: "Hey, there are new HD channels we launched but you need some changes to your system to receive them. Please call <insert special 800 number here> to schedule a time for a technician to come out and get you setup." Sending out something now without having all the training, inventory, and billing procedures in place is just a recipe for pandemonium.

 

[Albie2]

It looks like Dish is starting down the path of forcing everyone to a pure arc solution. Hopefully they will follow this letter up with some sort of plan to minimize the pain involved, especially for the early adopters (mostly the 61.5/110/119 crowd). And if we're lucky maybe even make it a real possibility for all subs to get the correct programming (see the Scranton area folks et al).

You can also bet once this process is pretty well complete the next project will be to get (force) all the WA subs that still have mpeg2 receivers to upgrade to VIPs

 

[Hemi 6.1]

No call them up, there is a warranty for work done so it shouldn't cost you anything.

They are coming tomorrow between 12 and 5. We shall see!.:rant:
My Directv Phase III has more snow on it right now, And I have 70's accross the board with a few 80,s
Well Lets see, Hmmm... 1000.4 Nothing, not even 1 channel , and my dish has hardly any snow on it.
I'm going to post a screen shot. Yea I'm not happy.

 

[TheForce]

espaeth- My wife works in a vary similar capacity for a health insurance service company. Your comment brought a smile to my face. She is in the middle constantly between the health insurance companies and large group administrators negotiating peace.

Hey Scott- you rarely make mistakes but when you do I have to call you out on it, even if this time is is more of a matter of perspective.

You said that cable wouldn't charge for an upgrade of equipment like this. I have to disagree, at least with Comcast, here, if you have your channels with an older technology and they move the channels to only a newer technology that obsoletes your equipment, you will be charged to replace that equipment. Obviously, they don't use antennas so the recent transition from analog cable to all digital could be viewed as similar. Comcast indeed had not a simple antenna install charge of $15 but they charged a service call ( don't recall the exact amount) plus they tacked on a per month equipment charge for the digital cable box. I used to have Comcast here but only analog. I got notice that my bill would be increased from $7.99 for basic analog to 17.99 for basic digital PLUS, each set connected would have a $7 box charge for the equipment. That was about 5 years ago and when I said go ahead and shut it off. I even have a commercial internet account with Comcast but that didn't matter.
Speaking of internet- they also have a charge to request an upgrade of the modem. However, if they offer a faster service plan and I want to get that at additional charge per month and it requires a new modem box, that would not be charged an additional fee. Only if you just want a different make modem than the one you presently have will they charge to make the swap.
Consequently, I felt your comparison to Dish charge for changing out the dish because they made switch vs. cable which doesn't charge for equipment when they decide to change technology is just not so. I was quite happy with my old basic cable feeding our Kitchen TV for $7.99 per month.


My Dish status-

Now- this old fart is still at 110/119 + 61.5

Soon will replace my old ( unused) DirecTV dish with an EA 1000.4 that is on order from an ebay bid. Paid $44 for it. I'll do the install myself to avoid the nightmare of a hack installer from DishNetwork. I've had just too many of those in these past 5 years.