MPEG-4 will initially be MPEG-2!
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10 years ago MPEG-2 encoders were barely working (real time ones). Dish was only able to get a few channels/Transponder. Now they fit 10-12. MPEG-4 will take a few years, I hope they move to full 1920x1080 before packing the TPs with more channels. I could see them eventually reaching full 1920x1080 and 6 programs/TP.
So, since all present HD channels will remain MPEG-2 this year and all upcoming new HD channels will be MPEG-2 as well, at least initially, and as Charlie mentioned yesterday they are planning to add some more HD channels later this year, does it mean that they don't have much choice, but to keep downrezzing everything until MPEG-4 encoders go live? Am I reading this correctly?Scott Greczkowski said:
Ilya I got so many answers from people on that question that it is hard for me to answer.
While I didn't really report it I talked to EVERYONE from Charlie on down about this issue, and Charlie didnt understand what I was talking about and everyone else who was there was from engineering and told me I was preaching to the chior and they wanted full res HD as well.
What makes this more interesting or confusing is Universal HD is in full 1920 x 1080i which has me starting to wonder if this really is a VOOM issue even though VOOM says its not.
While I didn't really report it I talked to EVERYONE from Charlie on down about this issue, and Charlie didnt understand what I was talking about and everyone else who was there was from engineering and told me I was preaching to the chior and they wanted full res HD as well.
What makes this more interesting or confusing is Universal HD is in full 1920 x 1080i which has me starting to wonder if this really is a VOOM issue even though VOOM says its not.
drsiebling said:
There's a difference between seeking attention for yourself, and trying to gain attention for issues we should all be screaming about. If only the young ones have the nads to scream, then we need more young 'uns around.
Let the Wall Street analysts and business pundits talk about the sound reasons behind a company's product/marketing decisions. We, on the other hand, should be holding Gary's megaphone - not complaining about the volume.
The Pub issue is separate and he apologized for any misunderstanding - but it's clear that the motives weren't selfish.
I agree to an extent, but I'd suggest that Gary (and others with a cause) shouldn't be inserting their cause into every thread. Make a new topic, and it will attract attention if it's a worthy cause.CPanther95 said:
I totally understand what Gary did, and was meaning to bring this issue out in public earlier but with all the travel and sleep I didnt get around to it as quick as I wanted too.
In fact today I am back at work and havent gotten a single thing done that I needed to do today as its so busy here at the office.
In fact today I am back at work and havent gotten a single thing done that I needed to do today as its so busy here at the office.
Yes I apologize again Scott, in the future I understand that you don't want the info on other sites, it was a honest mistake and I didn't mean for it to get back around to the sat guys(being you said to keep it in the pub forum)
Thanks for all your info, that is one of the many reasons I support this site, that and folks actually care about HD quality here, unlike "other" DBS forums
-Gary
Thanks for all your info, that is one of the many reasons I support this site, that and folks actually care about HD quality here, unlike "other" DBS forums
-Gary
OK, first of all, I think this is a great idea. Maybe not for customers, but it makes perfect sense IN THE LONG RUN. (A concept few seem to understand in this country.) Look at it from DISHs viewpoint...
1)You need to start the MPEG-4 equipment changeover. But the encoders aren't up to snuff yet. And there's no timeline for it to improve, but it should be within a year...hopefully.
2)You have invested tons to get the MPEG-4 receivers ready. But no one wants to buy them because there's no programming yet.
3)You need a way to entice some people to get new equipment.
4)When MPEG-4 IS ready, you can't just switch everything over, because not everyone will have the equipment.
The options are- Put up no new programming and put off the painful/expensive transition until later. In this scenario, no one gets anything.
OR Put up a lot of new programming to encourage the start of the transition, giving people the option to upgrade now or leave their service as is.
This is transparant to most customers. The switch has to happen someday.
One more point...maybe this is the only reason for "HD-Lite". Maybe when the encoders are ready to go, they can go back to full resolution. It's a big maybe, and I'm not counting on it. But this does answer a lot of mysteries. What was up with that tech chat? Why the reduction in Voom channels? What's with all the shuffling?
This actually makes me happier. I can upgrade now instead of wondering what's going to happen. I'll get more HD for my trouble. And I know down the line, when we REALLY get MPEG-4, we'll get better quality, or even more channels, or hopefully both. There's no place to go but up.
1)You need to start the MPEG-4 equipment changeover. But the encoders aren't up to snuff yet. And there's no timeline for it to improve, but it should be within a year...hopefully.
2)You have invested tons to get the MPEG-4 receivers ready. But no one wants to buy them because there's no programming yet.
3)You need a way to entice some people to get new equipment.
4)When MPEG-4 IS ready, you can't just switch everything over, because not everyone will have the equipment.
The options are- Put up no new programming and put off the painful/expensive transition until later. In this scenario, no one gets anything.
OR Put up a lot of new programming to encourage the start of the transition, giving people the option to upgrade now or leave their service as is.
This is transparant to most customers. The switch has to happen someday.
One more point...maybe this is the only reason for "HD-Lite". Maybe when the encoders are ready to go, they can go back to full resolution. It's a big maybe, and I'm not counting on it. But this does answer a lot of mysteries. What was up with that tech chat? Why the reduction in Voom channels? What's with all the shuffling?
This actually makes me happier. I can upgrade now instead of wondering what's going to happen. I'll get more HD for my trouble. And I know down the line, when we REALLY get MPEG-4, we'll get better quality, or even more channels, or hopefully both. There's no place to go but up.
Things I Have Learned These Past Few Weeks!
THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THESE PAST FEW WEEKS
DISH did not re-launch VOOM 21 or its former PQ (ever reduced it) as I thought was promised starting in 2006.
My paid HD programming from DISH and DirecTV may never be full high-definition.
Local HD Channels now being offered or planned by DISH & DirecTV may never look as good as the present FREE OTA ones.
VOOM DBS was the future of what satellite TV could be, but may never arrive or may be years from now. Not 2006 or 2007.
After spending ton's of money on satellite equipment in the past, finally leasing will become the norm for both DISH and DirecTV this year. At last something that makes sense!
Regular SD satellite viewed programming is so compressed that the FREE OTA digital SD local programming is now far superior.
Being "The HD Leader" has nothing to do with high definition viewing.
Buying the latest new SED technology TV set (1920X1080) will be a waist of money due to the lack of available full HD programming.
To be continued:
THINGS I HAVE LEARNED THESE PAST FEW WEEKS
DISH did not re-launch VOOM 21 or its former PQ (ever reduced it) as I thought was promised starting in 2006.
My paid HD programming from DISH and DirecTV may never be full high-definition.
Local HD Channels now being offered or planned by DISH & DirecTV may never look as good as the present FREE OTA ones.
VOOM DBS was the future of what satellite TV could be, but may never arrive or may be years from now. Not 2006 or 2007.
After spending ton's of money on satellite equipment in the past, finally leasing will become the norm for both DISH and DirecTV this year. At last something that makes sense!
Regular SD satellite viewed programming is so compressed that the FREE OTA digital SD local programming is now far superior.
Being "The HD Leader" has nothing to do with high definition viewing.
Buying the latest new SED technology TV set (1920X1080) will be a waist of money due to the lack of available full HD programming.
To be continued:
waltinvt said:
Yes.
This "extortion" is going to happen now or later. Might as well be now.
If they wait for MPEG-4 to add programming, we all get nothing now.
If they add it in MPEG-2 but call it MPEG-4, they piss off a portion of the small number of customers who actually understand the issue. Let's say 5%
If they add it in MPEG-2 and leave it that way for the next few years until they finish the transition, they don't get the extra space they may need for their long term plans until it's too late. It also slows down the transition, because there is less incentive to upgrade. If I already had 25 HD channels and HD locals, I doubt I would want to upgrade to get a few more.
If they add it in MPEG-2, but take it all away 6 months from now, they piss off EVERYONE. (Or they have to give everyone a free receiver immediately.)
Sorry, option 2 is the best. And there's no place to go but up.
guys i just merged abunch of threads together that are talking about the same thing 
trying to get everything all in one place as per request
trying to get everything all in one place as per request 
Sean Mota said:
It is SOOOOOOOO frustrating that I can't make myself clear. It's not so much that there's no MPEG4 yet and it's not so much the upgrade $$. It's the deception used.
If MPEG4 was ready now and the deal was truely as they presented it, I'd still be mildly upset at the upgrade costs for 921 / 942 owners but the whole deal would make reasonable sense.
Look what DISH has put 921 and recently 942 users through in terms of bugs and hardware frustrations; broken promises; degradition of HD PQ, etc and now they make new channels available that these units COULD receive (at least until MEPG4 is ready) but instead they want these people to pay $300 + throw in their current receiver to be able to see these new channels that probably won't be MPEG4 for another year.
I don't care how some of you people rationalize it - it stinks - just more for some than others.
Airblair said:(Bolding mine.)
Jeez, the way you put that makes Charlie Ergen sound like Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
Ergen.......Charles Ergen
And as Charlie Goldfinger said to Bond on the laser table when Bond said "what to you expect me to do"? : "I expect you to BUY mister bond - I expect you to BUY.
