IMO, the reason they are doing it this way is because they probably know that it will not take them 6 months or a year to get the MPEG-4 encoders working accorindg to what they expect. It is maybe a matter of days. They did not just started working on the MPEG-4 encoders. They have been at it for some time now. If they are letting everyone know to switch by Feb 1, with the incentive to get the new channels, is because they could throw the MPEG-4 switch at any time after Feb 1. Then what is going to happen when you cannot receive the new channels on MPEG-4. We all be screaming and bitching again. I'd bet you that after Feb 1, the MPG-4 switch is thown within striking distance. So eventually everyone will have to do this. Whether it is Feb 1 or Feb 5, or Feb 15 or March 1. When those MPEG-4 Encoders are online and you do not have the equipment, you will be left out in the cold without the new channels. At least this way, you and I will be ready for primetime when they come online. They wouldn't do this unless they knew they were close to do it.
MPEG-4 will initially be MPEG-2!
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Spatch said:
After speaking with my mother in detail she said it would be near impossible mainly because simply all Dish would have to do is prove that this was a temporary plan until further notice and the case would be over before it started. Not to mention the fact Judges don't like to see cases where he feels are wasting his time, and most judges would view this as such,
Also, in a civil case it's based on a perpondurance of the evidence, which means which side has more documents and info to support thier claim, all we really have is that this is what HD is supposed to be and this is what they are giving us, that's not really illegal, because E* truthfully has no binding contract with anyone to provide full rez HD, and the fact that they advertise it as True HD doesn't really and truthfully imply that it will be full rez HD, and just because you assume that it will and should be doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal at all..
She says our best plan of action is to notify the FCC and let someone with a little more pull than a group of pissed off customers handle it, if they choose to ignore it you can imagine how a courtroom, jury (if it got that far), and judge would feel about it.
she also asked what would we be seeking in this because if it's money then it's a waste of time they would at best only grant a portion of the $15 dollars you spend a month on the HD package and say it was $2 back for every month it was not full Rez and over a period of 2 years, your looking at a whopping $48.
So what now?? I guess we just deal with it and hope for the best.
Sean Mota said:
Come on Sean, none of this really flies.
They did / do not have to tie the reception of the new channels (or at least some of them) to having a new MPEG4 receiver if these new channels are currently really MPEG2.
They could put them up now or at a particular launch date (if they want to be dramatic) and allow all existing and new HD customers access to them REGARDLESS of which receivers they have - new subs of course would start right out with the new recievers and existing subs upgrade as quickly as possible.
They could be honest (for a change) and state the real status of MPEG4 broadcasting and announce a date when they realisticly expect to be using it.
Customers would then know they had a finite amount of time to upgrade receivers and but wouldn't be denied new channels until such time as the REAL MPEG4 conversion takes place.
I see no reason not to do this except to extort existing customers. Am I missing something ?
No, you pretty much nailed it. But, the extortion isn't extravegant, and you will get more HD content when the MPEG-4 encoders kick in.waltinvt said:
They are in a tough place right now. They have 12 million people on Mpeg2 land and have to move the whole bunch to Mpeg4 land over the next few years (analog OTA going away in 2009 is probably the finish line they are aiming for).
This is the way to push the early adopters along. My question is how they are going to make 25 million+ receivers in the next few years.....
Plus that $49 or $99 charge doesn't pay for the equipment OR labor to upgrade you. They are just trying to defray some of the costs.....
This is the way to push the early adopters along. My question is how they are going to make 25 million+ receivers in the next few years.....
Plus that $49 or $99 charge doesn't pay for the equipment OR labor to upgrade you. They are just trying to defray some of the costs.....
waltinvt said:
I do not work with Encoders and do not know the details of what it entails but I have spoken to engineers that do work with these hardware. The problem is not as easy as throwing a switch or opening a door. There are two perspective here that everyone is failing to notice - the technical perspective and the business perspective.
From the Technical perspective they may not have an answer for you or me how long these will take to bring online. Which date would you like them to tell you? Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1, March 15, March 31,... It will be done when the time for it requires it.
From the business perspective, it is all about money. Those that decide to upgrade now have the incentive to get the MPEG-2 new channels disguised as MPEG-4. Those that opt not to do it (and you have and I have the choice) will have to wait. In these upgrades there are let downs and there are happy campers and there are those in between. I am sure that they could have launched the MPEG-2 channels to all of us right now but it is a business decision more than a techinical one. If the techinical part of the problem is resolved before Feb 1 or by Feb 1 will you be happy that the channels are transmitted on MPEG-4? I guess no one will be able to see them unless you have MPEG-4 equipment.
In a nutshell, I can see why they are doing what they are doing. It is not pretty and it look bad in the eyes of some but it will be a temporary solution to a technical problem. As I said before you will be screaming again if they turn the MPEG-4 on Feb 2 and you do not have MPEG-4 equipment. Dish cannot win on this one. Anywhich way they do it, there will be some unhappy customers.
YOU WANT THE TRUTH????
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!! J/K
I think what alot of people keep forgetting is Charlie didn't get to where he is by not being a savvy business man, is what he is doing right????.....well define right, I mean if would have came on Charlie Chat or at CES and said look guys MPEG4 isn't doing as good as we hoped and a FEB 1st date is impossible so it looks like we are going to have to wait another 6 months before we can get these HD channels up in mpeg4, and with MPEG2 the quality will not be good enough to please you all so we'll do our best... oh and by the way your rates are increasing thank you goodnight!!
Meanwhile these mpeg 4 recievers that cost E* a shitpile of cash to design and build just sit there! Phew if any of us had to deal with those problems everyday we would crack in a minute under that kind of pressure.
He's smart give the people what they want, more channels get some of these cash cow recievers off my warehouse floor and let's get this mpeg 4 ball rolling and when we do get these encoders online it will be seamless
I for one thinnk it is one hell of a smart business decision, and will be upgrading ASAP...
On another note I think the whole HD-Lite thing is the same situation when MPEG4 hits I think as many channels as possible will be back at full rez that these things are temporary solutions to a temporary problem....
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!! J/K
I think what alot of people keep forgetting is Charlie didn't get to where he is by not being a savvy business man, is what he is doing right????.....well define right, I mean if would have came on Charlie Chat or at CES and said look guys MPEG4 isn't doing as good as we hoped and a FEB 1st date is impossible so it looks like we are going to have to wait another 6 months before we can get these HD channels up in mpeg4, and with MPEG2 the quality will not be good enough to please you all so we'll do our best... oh and by the way your rates are increasing thank you goodnight!!
Meanwhile these mpeg 4 recievers that cost E* a shitpile of cash to design and build just sit there! Phew if any of us had to deal with those problems everyday we would crack in a minute under that kind of pressure.
He's smart give the people what they want, more channels get some of these cash cow recievers off my warehouse floor and let's get this mpeg 4 ball rolling and when we do get these encoders online it will be seamless
I for one thinnk it is one hell of a smart business decision, and will be upgrading ASAP...
On another note I think the whole HD-Lite thing is the same situation when MPEG4 hits I think as many channels as possible will be back at full rez that these things are temporary solutions to a temporary problem....
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What Dish should do is estimate when they will have the MPEG4 encoders up.
Then Put up a slate for MPEG2 HD customers saying they are getting a Free Preview of the new HD content. And after a set date the new HD content will be MPEG4 only.
Then Put up a slate for MPEG2 HD customers saying they are getting a Free Preview of the new HD content. And after a set date the new HD content will be MPEG4 only.
There's two separate issues:
1) They want the new channels on MPEG4 to create upgrade demand so they don't get stuck upgrading a bunch of STBs down the road.
2) They are "really" in MPEG2 because MPEG4 is "not ready for primetime".
Yes, they could easily supply these channels to everybody without upgrades, but it would defeat the primary objective, which is number 1. If you don't have a problem with #1, then you really shouldn't have a problem with #2.
1) They want the new channels on MPEG4 to create upgrade demand so they don't get stuck upgrading a bunch of STBs down the road.
2) They are "really" in MPEG2 because MPEG4 is "not ready for primetime".
Yes, they could easily supply these channels to everybody without upgrades, but it would defeat the primary objective, which is number 1. If you don't have a problem with #1, then you really shouldn't have a problem with #2.
IMHO it sounds like the underlying problem for alot of you is that you want something for nothing.......you want the new HD channels and you want them at full Rez but you don't want an rate increase .......and you don't want to pay to upgrade to an MPEG4 receiver that you will eventually need anyway!!!!!
It just doesn't work that way, I mean if you think about it your asking Charlie and E* to bend over backwards for you while you refuse to budge an inch because of an E* inside issue that in reality you shouldn't even know about.
I honestly have no problem with this, bottom line you will need the MPEG receiver later anyway, so what difference does it make??? Now or Later??
Just my .02 cents
It just doesn't work that way, I mean if you think about it your asking Charlie and E* to bend over backwards for you while you refuse to budge an inch because of an E* inside issue that in reality you shouldn't even know about.
I honestly have no problem with this, bottom line you will need the MPEG receiver later anyway, so what difference does it make??? Now or Later??
Just my .02 cents
If Dish didn't make the new channels "MPEG4" and only viewable with the new receivers then what would be the incentive for people to upgrade? I wouldn't think many 942 owners would upgrade to the new DVR receiver or many people that just want to watch tv no matter what box they have. Dish had to give people an incentive to get the new boxes. If they didn't do it this way then what other way do you see them getting people to upgrade?
bytre said:
This whole transition is not a 'flip the switch' ordeal.
Equipment needs to be designed and implemented. That's been going on for a few years.
Customers have to be dealt with. That begins now. Upgrade now for the Future.
The actual encoding will happen months or even years in the future. That will be a switch flip that should be transparent to most customers.
CPanther95 said:
Meaning What???
That if you wait it out they will upgrade you for free???
If that's what you mean then like I said before you want something for nothing.
If what Scott is saying is true, and they intend to move all HD channels to MPEG4 - then it is far from "something for nothing". They cannot sell a bunch of hardware, then obsolete it a year down the road without bearing the cost of converting those subscribers. Unless they made it very clear when you purchased it that it was good for a limited time.
If the time comes that E* goes exclusively with MPEG4 for all HD customers, they absolutely will have to offer a seamless upgrade. E* has decided to dramatically enhance their offering so their subs are motivated to handle the upgrade themselves - but those that don't bite now, will have to be dealt with in another way.
If the time comes that E* goes exclusively with MPEG4 for all HD customers, they absolutely will have to offer a seamless upgrade. E* has decided to dramatically enhance their offering so their subs are motivated to handle the upgrade themselves - but those that don't bite now, will have to be dealt with in another way.
KenSoren said:Sorry, I don't see any logic in this
Wouldn't it make more sense to let all us current loyal HD subscribers enjoy the new channels, then at a later date make the change to MPG4? They might even be able to get us to sign on to the new HD packages that will be available - or maybe even let us preview them until we get the new receivers. This would actually make most customers happy.
WAYYYY too many people are making the assumption that Dish would be better off airing the new channels in MPEG2 for starters, then move them to MPEG4.
That would be a patently ridiculous strategy for Dish to take. (Sorry it appears I'm picking on you, KenSoren; I just chose to use your quote 'cuz you write really well.)
Look at the blowback Dish is taking right now: they have some new channels, but you need new hardware to see them. But your old hardware works just fine for the stuff you have been receiving, and will into the forseeable future.
Compare that to what has been proposed on these and other boards: Here's your new channels, enjoy! Until we TAKE THEM AWAY FROM YOU. You'll have to pay money to view the same programming you had been viewing, up until now.
(And don't confuse a 3-day preview, like Showtime occasionally has, with making a channel available for months on end. Viewers would get used to it being there and would have conniptions even if they're constantly told it was a preview.)
See what I'm saying? It's all about deciding for yourself whether you want to spend the money to upgrade.
The alternative is to let Dish decide whenever they want to shake you down for more money (for new hardware) in order to see channels you already get. I think nobody will want that precedent established, even Dish.
(Bolding mine.)
Jeez, the way you put that makes Charlie Ergen sound like Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
CPanther95 said:
Jeez, the way you put that makes Charlie Ergen sound like Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
Since the info discussed in this thread is very important (and since it has been leaked from the Pub anyway), I guess it makes sense to move this thread to the general area of the forum.
