Multiple Receivers - Motorized FTA system - Discussion

[DeepDishPie]

Hi all.

I'm a newcomer to the FTA stuff and I've been reading these posts for about 11 hours straight (well I did eat a little), and anyways I think I have digested enough info to finally ask some pointed questions.

My goal is to have a FTA motorized system that also incorporates my VHF/UHF antenna and feeds the combined Sat/Ant signals into my (soon to be defunct) cable box which has cable already running to 4 different rooms in my house. This is will hopefully feel almost like cable to all in the house which is what I think most families want to achieve.

Any thoughts?
Well here's a guess by me…..

Let's start with a hypothetical system consisting of a 36" Wineguard Dish with a Fortec Stab HH90 motor and a Pansat 2700a receiver.

Now I realize that when the dish gets moved to a different satellite that all receivers in the house will only have the channels on that satellite to choose from. But from what I have read it seems possible to tune into more than one Satellite at a time by either adding more LNBs (The Satellites have to be close together) or more Dishes (Which is really just another LNB when you get right down to it). Or, you could perhaps tune into more than one polarity at a time with a dual LNB and receive more channels without moving the dish. (Is this correct?)

To allow more than one receiver appears to be the most complicated part of it all. I have seen some pretty convoluted examples. But as far as I can tell a simple solution would be to use a 3x4 Multiswitch that has inputs for the dual outputs from a dual LNB (Or a 5x4 switch for Quad LNBs) and the single feed from the VHF/UHF antenna. This Multiswitch could then feed the 4 cables in my exterior cable box and then from there either to a Diplexor and Receiver or simply to a Terminator. The "Channel Master 6344P Multiswitch", seems to fit the bill. (Is this correct?)

One other thought: Can the cables running through my house from the cable box handle the signal? I would use RG6 cable for my part of the install but there are no guarantees that the existing cable will be up to snuff....

FYI: BY cable box I mean that little weatherproof box on the outside of the house that my main cablevision feed runs into and is split to 4 lines running through the walls of my house to different rooms.

I will stop here and post new questions based upon the answers to the above statements...

Cheers All :up

 

[DeepDishPie]

Ok then no takers huh?
So looking back at this post it does seem a bit long winded?

Anyways lets simplify.

What do I need to buy to setup a 4 room FTA system that would include my OTA signal?

Is this a hard question???? :shocked


Cheers All

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

The OTA you can just plug into most FTA receivers so that is no problem. Maybe someone else will jump in on the rest, but you are looking at running a couple of dual LNBs on a couple of motorized dishes with a switching system I believe. There is a quad LNB but that is 2 linear and 2 circular. Not sure if your existing cable system will work or not.

 

[DeepDishPie]

Hmmm, now I am confused.

I am not really trying to point at more than one satellite at time (It would have been nice though).

I am really just trying to point at a satellite that has some regular programing on it, that the whole family could watch.

I just don't want to pay the cable company anymore for the privilege of watching commercials and content that I am forced to pay for even though I don't want it.
(Do you know how many dish setups I could have bought for money I paid to the cable company for over 20 years? :river)

The Galaxy 10R Satellite is, I think, the one with most normal channels, it has many channels I believe that broadcast regular programming like "Medium" for the wife and "The Simpsons" for the older kids at the same time.

Although I have to say that getting the PBS Kids channel for my Toddler at the same time would be a huge bonus. Is AMC3 close enough to G10R for that?

So now, here are my primary goals:

-I have a family of 5, all with very different tastes.
-They all need to have a reciever eventually. Ok, 4 receivers will do.
-They all need access to different programming ( Sort of - The Wife's programs supersede all others. )
-I dont want a dish farm ( Well I do want one , but the Wife sure doesn't. )

Now this doesn't have to happen all at once. I just want to make sure that I buy the right stuff now, so that later I can add receivers easily. To begin with I want just 2 receivers, a dish with LNBF, and a motor.

As a techno geek type I would still like to play around with all the FTA Sats and Feeds though, so I figured a motorized system with a Kick As* LNBF (and a good receiver for me) is a must from the get go.

I have scoured this forum and I still can't formulate an "educated" best equipment to buy list. There has to be someone out there with same goals that has been able to do this???

Any help you all can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers All

 

[Anole]

get your feet wet, first

I've been shopping recently, too.
I had about settled on a package from Sadoun, with receiver, dish, LNB, switch (for the future), and your same Stab motor.
(they don't seem to carry your choice of receiver, though)
I was going to upgrade from 30 to 36 inch, since the cost is so modest.
You would want an LNB with two outputs.

Why don't you get your two receivers and pretty much what you outlined, to get your feet wet?
If you aren't getting all four receivers today, don't worry about tomorrow.
You'll probably learn so much in the next six months, that today's choices will seem arcane.

When you are ready for two more receivers, make them a stand-alone pair, similar to your first two.
Maybe you can talk your wife into a bigger dish for yourself, and pass the little 36 down the food chain to the kids.
With two dishes, more simultaneous possibilities open up.
Maybe by then you'll know if you want one of the toroidal T90 dishes.
They can sport multiple LNBs, but take the time with the motorized dish to see if there are satellites that you want, which are spaced such that a T90 would even make sense.
I'm not a proponent of 'em, but if you choose to go that way, get the bigger one, by all means.

Oh, and rip the house wiring out by the roots!
It is likely RG59, and it's possible that splitters might be hidden in the walls (you never know).

edit: here is a negative description of the smaller T55 version.
According to the published specs, the bigger T90 has gain similar to a 36" dish.
All the other negative comments probably are valid.

 

[DeepDishPie]

Hey Anole.

Feet wet huh? Ya that seems like the way Im going to have to go.

Damn shame about the house wiring though, can't imagine how I would replace it all without making a huge mess.

So to be clear on the subject - to have more than 1 receiver requires a dual or quad LNBF and has nothing to do with any switch combo's I could purchase?

And if this is the case then if I bought one of those super duper Invacom QPH-031 LNBF's then I could only have one reciever hooked to this?

Say it ain't sooooo.

Hmmmm, maybe I could strap 2 to the same arm though.....

 

[Anole]

I would recommend you approach your house wiring with a skeptical eye.
Maybe it's fine.
However if you have trouble with it, run some cabling around it and test to see if it's at fault.

The QPH-031 Invacom has two outputs for linear and two outputs for circular.
And it's about a hundred dollars.
Seems like a nice .4db two-output LNB would get you started just fine.

Maybe someone else should advise you on switches, but won't a standard 4x4 do the job?

Why do you care about circular?
There may be four sats with anything FTA on circular (it's late, I might be wrong)
That is 82, 91, 110, and 119.
Last time I noticed, even the infomercial and shopping channels were scrambled.
You should do your homework (read posts here) and search Lyngsat.com to see if there's really anything worth the effort on those mostly-scrambled system.

Sounds like you need to do some more thinking about what you are going to do with everything.
It doesn't sound like the equipment choices match what you said your goal was.
It's late in my time zone. Best of luck.

 

[DeepDishPie]

"Sounds like you need to do some more thinking about what you are going to do with everything."

I think your right about that Anole.

Thankfully, and sadly, I will not be getting a Sat System for some months yet. So I am sure to be 'well read' on the subject by then.

I think I will pop over to Sadoun and stare at switches for a while.... !sadroll

Cheerio

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

I am not really trying to point at more than one satellite at time (It would have been nice though).

I am really just trying to point at a satellite that has some regular programing on it, that the whole family could watch.

Sorry, I didn't realize that. Sounds like you want to aim at Galaxy 10R which has the most programming (network type) of the kind you mention. You can check out Lyngsat or FTA List to see what is there. I agree with Anole-get one dish and one receiver and try that out to see if you like FTA before going "whole hog".

 

[TiminMb]

I'm thinking that one dish, dedicated to Galaxy 10R, and another dish on a motor would satisfy a lot of your needs. I think that's the system I am going to go to.

 

[Anole]

...in the light of a new day...

The other thing I thought of, on the way to sleep last night was...
(and now you'll have time to do it)
...read all the posts in all the FTA sections, back for at least several months.
Also read all the FAQs and the stickies.
Mine (as in: "dig through") the reviews, too. Even on things you don't think you want.
It's amazing what you'll find off-topic in some of these threads!

I found a recent thread, with a link back to a two-month old thread with discussion between the members and the guy who programs one of the satellite feeds.
This forum is a gold mine of interesting tidbits.

Finally, you will be able to answer most all the questions you've brought up (and some I've brought up).
At that point, you'll be perfectly confident that you're buying the system you need to get started.

I was just suggesting you come up with a modest laundry list, get it blessed by some of the more knowledgable members, and use that to get your feet wet.
Sounds like you'll do fine.

 

[Pepper]

I'm thinking that one dish, dedicated to Galaxy 10R, and another dish on a motor would satisfy a lot of your needs. I think that's the system I am going to go to.

This can be done pretty easily and cheaply if you can find an old Primestar dish and the PrimeStar LNBF with the separate V/H outputs (instead of the single).

To support multiple receivers using different polarities on the single satellite, you can use a 2 by X multiswitch (X - number of receivers supported) and run V to the 13V and H to the 18V inputs. (I believe some of them are 3 by X where the third is for an OTA antenna and you can split the line with a diplexer into the receiver and OTA input).

 

[Anole]

I really wish people would quit recommending old PrimeStar dishes....

...at least until after I find one!


And to think,,, a few years ago when they took one off my local Radio Shack, they threw it away and I didn't even think twice about it.
Well, maybe it was eight years ago.
I didn't even have DBS back then.

 

[TiminMb]

Was PrimeStar ever used in Canada?

 

[Anole]

who makes cartoons?

We need a cartoonist for this:

Man in shabby clothes and floppy hat, parked in his 1950's pickup truck, at the border crossing from Canada into the USA...
Saying to Border Patrol: "no sir, nothing to declare"
...and in the back of his pickup truck are three beat up satellte dishes, with various company logos on 'em.

 

[beaverdown]

I would also like to know about the availability of primestar dishes in Canada....anyone with any info?

 

[Shawn95GT]

Hi all.

I'm a newcomer to the FTA stuff and I've been reading these posts for about 11 hours straight (well I did eat a little), and anyways I think I have digested enough info to finally ask some pointed questions.

My goal is to have a FTA motorized system that also incorporates my VHF/UHF antenna and feeds the combined Sat/Ant signals into my (soon to be defunct) cable box which has cable already running to 4 different rooms in my house. This is will hopefully feel almost like cable to all in the house which is what I think most families want to achieve.

Any thoughts?
Well here's a guess by me…..

Let's start with a hypothetical system consisting of a 36" Wineguard Dish with a Fortec Stab HH90 motor and a Pansat 2700a receiver.

Now I realize that when the dish gets moved to a different satellite that all receivers in the house will only have the channels on that satellite to choose from. But from what I have read it seems possible to tune into more than one Satellite at a time by either adding more LNBs (The Satellites have to be close together) or more Dishes (Which is really just another LNB when you get right down to it). Or, you could perhaps tune into more than one polarity at a time with a dual LNB and receive more channels without moving the dish. (Is this correct?)

To allow more than one receiver appears to be the most complicated part of it all. I have seen some pretty convoluted examples. But as far as I can tell a simple solution would be to use a 3x4 Multiswitch that has inputs for the dual outputs from a dual LNB (Or a 5x4 switch for Quad LNBs) and the single feed from the VHF/UHF antenna. This Multiswitch could then feed the 4 cables in my exterior cable box and then from there either to a Diplexor and Receiver or simply to a Terminator. The "Channel Master 6344P Multiswitch", seems to fit the bill. (Is this correct?)

That is right. Basically the dual outputs split the LNB outputs into H and V. Internally the multiswitch sends the requesting receiver to whichever it needs. A dual LNB with a 3x4 multi switch would let you get the sat and OTA signal at all of the receivers.

With a 5x4 multiswitch you could add another dish to get AMC3. My kids absolutely LOVE PBS Kids on AMC3. Don't forget that you need an AC3 capable receiver as well as some kind of AC3 decoder (stero) as well to get sound.

One other thought: Can the cables running through my house from the cable box handle the signal? I would use RG6 cable for my part of the install but there are no guarantees that the existing cable will be up to snuff....

It really depends on your house cabling. At my place I've had pretty good luck passing the signal through my house wiring.

 

[barney_555]

I would also like to know about the availability of primestar dishes in Canada....anyone with any info?

I'm in Canada also and I'm looking for an old Starchoice dish.

Way back, they had 40" round dish. I already have a 30", they're made by Winegard, so great dishes.

 

[ShadowEKU]

I have a really dumb question. Can a Motorized system use a dual output LNB so that say I could have 4 receivers running but one of them control the motor?

 

[Shawn95GT]

I have a really dumb question. Can a Motorized system use a dual output LNB so that say I could have 4 receivers running but one of them control the motor?

Yes - that's exactly how it'd work with the multiswitch etc.

Shawn