need help! finally started my install.no success

[outbackjack]

well its been a million sundays since i have posted. maine has had nice weather so i finally went out and tried to install again(on a crate in the yard). i cant get the sg9120 motor to work properly start at 0 and i try say hipasat but the motor doesnt move unless i manually move it. then if i pick 97w it goes towards 30 west. i am aimed at my true south but if i set the dish at 6.8 and the motor at 44.5 then it basically has no angles at all. the motor only goes from 0 and moves back to zero each time i try to scan. i must be way off on something or many things. dishpointer says the trees can be 80 feet hight but i dont see how i can even get a signal with the dish perfectly vertical and the trees so high. please help you guys have always been great and i appreciate all the help in the past. this is my coordinates

Latitude: 44.5729°
Longitude: -68.7759°

Name: True South / True North
Distance: 37889km

Motor Latitude: 44.6°
Declination Angle: 6.8°
Dish Elevation: --°
Elevation: 38.6°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 196.9°

 

[guapoharry]

Have you gotten any video yet (or a transponder lock) on your true south satellite?

 

[outbackjack]

unfortunately no. i wasn't sure what true south to use 72 or another one. i didn't even know what strong transponder to use. previously when i was trying to get 97west somehow i was locking 107.3 and i was using the dishpointer site for the correct place to point it. basically im clueless. should i move the dish and motor until i lock something close to my true south and go from there?

 

[guapoharry]

Short answer, yes. when you do that, the rest of the arc should line up.

If you are concerned about trees, use an inclinometer pointed at 39º up from horizon to see if they are in the way... Search on Inclinometer in the FTA section to find out more.

If you are at 69ºW, I would use 72ºW for the true south satellite.

Here is a thread with transponders for aiming.

Galaxy Marketing's website says the SG9120 is USALS compatible, so I would use it. (at least to start with)

Sounds like you have a bit of this figured out, but here is some stuff to verify with:

If you are using the Coolsat6000 and Universal LNBF,
go to

Menu, Installation, Dish Setting
Select AMC 6, 72ºW

Set or verify the following:
LNB Power ON
LNB Type Universal
22khz AUTO

DiSEqC - Select this if you have a switch

Then exit back to the Installation menu and select Motorized Setting

In Motorized Setting, Select,
DiSEqC Motor, USALS
Antenna Position, OK and set
Antenna Longitude, 68.8ºW
Antenna Latitude, 44.6ºN
(Change E or W , N or S by setting cursor on it and press OK)

Then press Go To

Exit back to the Installation Menu and select Manual Scan

Put the cursor down to frequency and hit the green button to add a transponder
(if the following transponders are not in your receiver yet)

enter 12143

Symbol rate 2573

polarization V

Or, you might try 11838 V 29660

Make sure your pole is plumb and the latitude is set at 45ºN on your motor. Loosen the bolts set and tighten.

Now you try to aim the dish so you get the best level and quality.

I start with a loose elevation on your dish and get the highest level. Then I snug up the elevation, You won't probably get any quality yet.

Then with the motor mount to the pole loose, you swing the whole dish back and forth to try and get some quality. You are trying to aim toward 196.9° if you have a compass.

Once you peak that transponder, do a blind scan and you should get some channels.

Use this info for reference

Let us know how its going...

 

[Mr Tony]

i am aimed at my true south but if i set the dish at 6.8 and the motor at 44.5 then it basically has no angles at all.

the 6.8 you take that number for elevation off of 30 degrees on the dish. You are at almost the same latitude as me. I'm at 44.7N (Minneapolis) and my dish elevation is at 23. Motor elevation is at 45. The rest Harry pretty much summed up

oh I have to ask about the name....you're not this guy are you?

 

[AcWxRadar]

In Motorized Setting, Select,
DiSEqC Motor, USALS
Antenna Position, OK and set
Antenna Longitude, 68.8ºW
Antenna Latitude, 44.6ºN

(Change E or W , N or S by setting cursor on it and press OK)

Then press Go To

OutBack,

Because of the descrition of the motor operation (its failure to move to any satellite away from the zero position of the motor) it almost sounds like the entry in the menus for your site longitude isn't set to W, but rather is still showing E. That is just a thought and an easy thing to check/correct. It sounds like a familiar response of the motor to an incorrect longitude (E vs W) setting.

Also, you will have to set each satellite to use USALS for the motor to move. If it is set to OFF it won't move at all and it it is set to DiSEqC 1.2, you will have to manually move it using the keypad on the remote, then SAVE/STORE or RECALCULATE the position (however they refer to it for your receiver).

I would also be using 72.0°W (AMC 6) as the nearest true south satellite, as GuapoHarry stated. I prefer to use TP 12053 Vertical SR 6890 = NBC SAT MUX.

RADAR

 

[JerryVT]

I think Radar might be right. I had a similar experience during my setup, and realized I had reversed Lat and Long (I was a bit excited and not taking my time) Make sure the Lat and Long is correct in the receiver.

 

[B.J.]

the 6.8 you take that number for elevation off of 30 degrees on the dish. You are at almost the same latitude as me. I'm at 44.7N (Minneapolis) and my dish elevation is at 23. .....

I agree, except not being familiar with the bend in that motor's shaft, SatAV just posted in another thread that that motor has a 40 deg bend, not 30 deg, so maybe that should be 40-6.8 instead????
However I hate to keep being annoying about this, but really he should be using the modified declination of 6.2 anyway. With 6.8, he'll be off at the extremes.

 

[outbackjack]

okay first of all I would like to thank you guys for all the information. i printed it and went back outside today. i tried 72w which comes up as 201 degrees. i left the motor and dish at real true south of 196 then i slowly moved the motor by the receiver until i aligned 201 w. nothing. then i figured well try 97w again. i couldn't get anything to go above 30 percent on the reading. i blind scanned and got cctv1-4. am i onto something? i tried the elevation skew from adding in Ice's declination recommendation of 23.8 and also tried B.J's 33.8....well i tried everything really slow. so what should i try next? i am clueless. again i used all of your help and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jim S.]

CCTV is at 95W.

 

[outbackjack]

oh man well than i am really off because the motor was set to go to 97w and that is what i got. what do i change to make the motor know it is at 95w instead of 97w?

 

[outbackjack]

i speak therefore i think.....okay so if i rename the sat for 95w what else am i missing to actually bring a strong signal to actually work with. motor is at 45 degrees. i left the lnb at 0 degrees. the dish is at 32 degrees. which setting will be more fruitful. moving the motor elevation or the dish?

 

[guapoharry]

Jack, It takes accurate alignment to point at Elevation: 38.5°, Azimuth (magn.): 201.4°.

When you use a compass and inclinometer to point there, that's a starting point. To lock on a Ku band FSS satellite of ones choosing without a bit of trial and error would be quite lucky.

Once you set your location Lat and Long in the receiver and set the receiver to your satellite near true south, the receiver will move the motor to a location. Then, you can adjust the dish elevation and motor mount azimuth adjustments by hand. Once you receive the true south satellite and peak it so it comes in best, the rest of the satellites should come in by using the motor.

Anyway, you might try using the attached search box method to make the aim more accurate.

 

[guapoharry]

oh man well than i am really off because the motor was set to go to 97w and that is what i got. what do i change to make the motor know it is at 95w instead of 97w?

In the menu, you set the satellite to the satellite at 95ºW, which on my Coolsat is G-3C.

 

[outbackjack]

guapoharry your right i set the motor to the right lat and long for my true south and had it aligned to 196. i figure my alignment must have been a hare off because of it saying 97w but really being at 95w. i know they are really close together for the dish but will the settings be more accurate if i rename the 97w to 95w. in other words will the motor be able to go to a new 97w if i rename it to 95w? if so what do i mess with at that point just the dish elevation? please bear with me cause i am just excited to get those four channels. now i want to get a real strength on the receiver.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Jack, It takes accurate alignment to point at Elevation: 38.5°, Azimuth (magn.): 201.4°.

When you use a compass and inclinometer to point there, that's a starting point. To lock on a Ku band FSS satellite of ones choosing without a bit of trial and error would be quite lucky.

Once you set your location Lat and Long in the receiver and set the receiver to your satellite near true south, the receiver will move the motor to a location. Then, you can adjust the dish elevation and motor mount azimuth adjustments by hand. Once you receive the true south satellite and peak it so it comes in best, the rest of the satellites should come in by using the motor.

Anyway, you might try using the attached search box method to make the aim more accurate.

GuapoHarry,

That is a perfect visual for the technique that I have tried to describe to others for a long time. I call it "pan and scan" because the phrase sounds rememberable, but I haven't had a really good visual tool to help explain it. Your input here is just perfect to paint a mental picture of what we are trying to tell others to do. It is a methodical process of scanning a specified field of the sky or a window of the horizon to search out a signal that you believe to be contained within those boundaries.

Thanks man! I like it! So simple, yet it elluded me all this time.

RADAR

 

[outbackjack]

i think that is my problem i cant get 72w no matter what i do. no obstructions. i wanted this as my starting point but i couldnt get it locked for some reason. i slowly moved the dish...about an hour of moving the dish and even slowly trying to tweak the motor east and west and nothing. so thats how i ended up with trying 97 but really had 95. so thats where i would like to try to tweak from. rename and move to 97 if possible. i had the receiver, tv and chair out there. at worst i enjoyed listening to nature for a couple hours.

 

[AcWxRadar]

i think that is my problem i cant get 72w no matter what i do. no obstructions. i wanted this as my starting point but i couldnt get it locked for some reason. i slowly moved the dish...about an hour of moving the dish and even slowly trying to tweak the motor east and west and nothing. so thats how i ended up with trying 97 but really had 95. so thats where i would like to try to tweak from. rename and move to 97 if possible. i had the receiver, tv and chair out there. at worst i enjoyed listening to nature for a couple hours.

OutbackJack,

Trust me on this, if 72.0W is your nearest true south sat and you know that you have no LOS obstructions, you can get it to come in. Time and patience will help you and you will want a great deal of both of these combined with the knowledge of others.

This is where many people get frustrated and try to cut corners. When you start cutting corners, things don't work right and then you start to doubt the things that others tell you to do and so you cut more corners and try doing things your own way.

Eventually, you will get lost and all the instructions in the world don't make sense to you any longer because you have a plan ingrained in your mind to fail.

Don't let yourself get to this point, and don't scoff at what I am telling you because it does happen without you honestly being aware of it. People get set in their ideas and then their minds close up [SNAP] like a clam shell and then it is over and done with. If you get to that point, then we will have to come over to your house with a bunch of rednecks and some crowbars and pry your brain back open again! When we do that, we don't use anesthesia! Just to let you know! LOL

OK, OK, I am just fooling around with you and you know that, but you should feel more open now (better than a crowbar). If your nearest true south sat is 72.0°W, you should have no problem getting this to dial in, but you do need to take your time and be be patient. That satellite is THERE and you know it! Your task is to find it and I know you can do it.

If it helps you while you are out in the yard or on top of your roof, you can chew me out by saying "Dang you Gordy! You are pissing me off!" Go right ahead and let it out anyway you like! I have been there myself and others before us have done the same! What all of us realized, eventually, is that we were too impatient. When you truly realize that and really understand "patience" then it will become much easier for you. Then you can start on a whole new set of woes! But, you will be smiling from that point forward!

If you doubt what I say, just ask anyone else here or at any other site that you visit.

RADAR

 

[guapoharry]

guapoharry your right i set the motor to the right lat and long for my true south and had it aligned to 196. i figure my alignment must have been a hare off because of it saying 97w but really being at 95w. i know they are really close together for the dish but will the settings be more accurate if i rename the 97w to 95w. in other words will the motor be able to go to a new 97w if i rename it to 95w? if so what do i mess with at that point just the dish elevation? please bear with me cause i am just excited to get those four channels. now i want to get a real strength on the receiver.

There's no harm in keeping things the way they are for now. Enjoy the success you have had so far.

But If you are using USALS and you tell the receiver to go to 97ºW and it takes you to 95ºW, that tells me the whole thing is off (a little). To get to 97ºW you might have to tell it to go to 99ºW.

This fudging might work better if you change your location by two degrees (approx). (Perhaps 66.7 instead of 68.7) Then when you tell the receiver to go to 97, it will go to 97, not 95. But I say that with serious reservations.

When the whole thing is off by two degrees, your aim at the satellites near the east and west horizons will probably be wrong.

This is because of that declination thing where the motor makes the dish point down more toward the horizon when it points away from true south...

 

[B.J.]

There's no harm in keeping things the way they are for now. Enjoy the success you have had so far.

But If you are using USALS and you tell the receiver to go to 97ºW and it takes you to 95ºW, that tells me the whole thing is off (a little). To get to 97ºW you might have to tell it to go to 99ºW.

This fudging might work better if you change your location by two degrees (approx). (Perhaps 66.7 instead of 68.7) Then when you tell the receiver to go to 97, it will go to 97, not 95. But I say that with serious reservations.
.......

This has been mentioned in other threads, but sometimes what you describe happens when the motor's zero position isn't correct. My motor came from the factory off by 2 or 3 degrees. When I'd issue a GOTO zero or GOTO reference command, it would go to 2 or 3 degrees instead of zero. That effectively made everything off by a couple degrees. I lived with it for over a year by altering my home longitude like you say above, however eventually I manually moved the motor to zero, and then did a hard reset, to reset the zero to the proper place.

If the motor in question has a hard reset, that might be a way to cure the offset.