Need some help please.

[Khandurian]

Ok, heres the list of stuff that I have.

Directv H20-600

Single LNB dish

Perfect Vision PVMS-4EP 3x4 Multi-switch.

Ok, I went out and bought an RCA ANT537. The guy at the store said this is the most popular unit for this area.

Took it home, hooked it up to the multi-switch VHF/UHF port. It picked up a whole whopping 4 channels. That was disappointing.

So, I take it back and get the Terk TV44 dish mount antenna. Hook it up per instructions, once again, I get a whopping 4 channels.

At this point i'm a little frustrated as you can imagine. So I keep reading the manual over and over, and finally see how to hook it up using it for Dish. They recommended using a diplexer at the multi-switch.

Scan for channels again, now I finally get channels!! WEE! However, not all of them come in solid. I'm starting to beat the battle.

Now, here comes the hard part. I know if I had some sort of amplified antenna outside, that I could be able to get the rest of the channels with no problem. However, because of deed-restricted area, I cannot have any antenna's outside.

2 questions:

1. What can I get that will clip on to the antenna thats amplified and get all the channels?

2. Why did I have to put another diplexer at the multi-switch? (I think I already know the answer I just want to confirm it)

Thanks!

 

[Rick0725]

you have picked some real doosy's for antennas.

what is your zipcode.

 

[charper1]

IMHO both of those antennas are 100% junk. Based on your profile, you listed Cocoa Beach, FL as you home and I used zip code 32931 to test and you are about 34m - 36m away from towers. I would recommend getting the Channel Master CM4228, get it up high at or above the roof line, and test aim your antenna heading at about the correct heading of 307° or so. Your NBC affiliate shows as VHF, but it is VHF hi on freq 11, so this UHF only antenna should work fine. I have seen it work in the DFW area in this exact set of circumstances, including connected to the H20.

 

[Rick0725]

try a winegard squareshooter ss2000 mounted outside. 4.5 dbd gain should work to at least red.

double check your wiring

Charper...doubt the cm4228 is even being considered there.

let us know how you make out.

 

[charper1]

Given the deed restriction allowed the 5LNB dish, he should have no issues with an easy to hide CM4228. I (in Phoenix) and my buddy in DFW both live in HOA and use them without issue. Their installation should in fact be protected by federal law (OTARD) possibly. I would sure check into it before buying a SS at its inflated cost and compared to the reception quality.

 

[Khandurian]

Yes, dishes are protected by federal law, antenna's are not. I do not have the 5 lnb dish, I have the oval single lnb.

And of course, I live in one of those prissy HOA's. I love my house, and I love the view, otherwise I wouldnt be here! <grin>

I'll look into what you folks suggested. I do have one nook that I think I can hid it in as long as it's not overly large.

Thanks!

 

[charper1]

Yes, dishes are protected by federal law, antenna's are not. Thanks!

Wrong! I too live in a strict HOA, wouldn't have it any other way, all you need is to know the laws, and follow the correct procedures BEFORE installing you will be fine; if YOU just don't want the correct, quality OTA antenna, then that is your business.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

(in part)

The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

Effective January 22, 1999, the Commission amended the rule so that it also applies to rental property where the renter has an exclusive use area, such as a balcony or patio.

On October 25, 2000, the Commission further amended the rule so that it applies to customer-end antennas that receive and transmit fixed wireless signals. This amendment became effective on May 25, 2001.

 

[Khandurian]

Woah easy there.

Last time I looked at the law was well over 8 years ago. I see that they have amended it twice since then. It has nothing to do with not wanting a good quality antenna.

Ok, so I am at fault to see if there were any new amendments. However, I still see that there still is no provision for multiple antenna's. Our bylaws state per FCC rule that we can put up ONE dish OR one Directv OR one off air. No multiple antenna's are permitted. Which they can and do get away with.

 

[charper1]

I am only commenting that you claimed OTA was not covered, and they are. These rules have been amended to add additional, they have not removed DBS or OTA, etc. What I have listed for your benefit is current as of 11/2006 and direct from the FCC website for you to look at.

You are right that they get away with it, BUT that never means they are correct, it means 99% of the time people are not aware of their rights and give up. Hell, 99% of the time HOAs are even aware of the real law or that they are over rulled by higher ups.


(in part again)

Q: Can a restriction limit the number of antennas that may be installed at a particular location?

The Commission’s rule covers the antennas necessary to receive service. Therefore, a local rule may not, for example, allow only one antenna if more than one antenna is necessary to receive the desired service.

Q: I'm a board member of a homeowners' association, and we want to revise our restrictions so that they will comply with the FCC rule. Do you have guidelines you can send me?

A: The Commission does not have sample guidelines because every community is different. We can provide you the rule and the relevant orders, which will give you general guidance. (See list of documents at the end of this Information Sheet. Some communities have written restrictions that provide a prioritized list of placement preferences so that residents can see where the association wants them to install the antenna. The residents should comply with the placement preferences provided the preferred placement does not impose unreasonable delay or expense or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

Q: What can a local government, association, or consumer do if there is a dispute over whether a particular restriction is valid?

A: Restrictions that impair installation, maintenance or use of the antennas covered by the rule are preempted (unenforceable) unless they are needed for safety or historic preservation and are no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the articulated legitimate safety purpose or for preservation of a designated or eligible historic site or district. If a person believes a restriction is preempted, but the local government, community association, or landlord disagrees, either the person or the restricting entity may file a Petition for Declaratory Ruling with the FCC or a court of competent jurisdiction. We encourage parties to attempt to resolve disputes prior to filing a petition. Often contacting the FCC for information about how the rule works and applies in a particular situation can help to resolve the dispute. If a local government, community association, or landlord acknowledges that its restriction impairs installation, maintenance, or use and is preempted under the rule but believes it can demonstrate "highly specialized or unusual" concerns, the restricting entity may apply to the Commission for a waiver of the rule.

Q: How do I file a petition or request a waiver at the Commission?

A: See Guidance on Filing a Petition at the end of this document.

Q: Can I continue to use my antenna while the petition or waiver request is pending?

A: Yes, unless the restriction being challenged or for which a waiver is sought is necessary for reasons of safety or historic preservation. Otherwise, the restriction cannot be enforced while the petition is pending.

Q: Who is responsible for showing that a restriction is enforceable?

A: When a conflict arises about whether a restriction is valid, the local government, community association, property owner, or management entity that is trying to enforce the restriction has the burden of proving that the restriction is valid. This means that no matter who questions the validity of the restriction, the burden will always be on the entity seeking to enforce the restriction to prove that the restriction is permitted under the rule or that it qualifies for a waiver.

Q: Who do I call if my town, community association or landlord is enforcing an invalid restriction?

A: Call the Federal Communications Commission at (888) CALLFCC (888-225-5322), which is a toll-free number, or 202-418-7096, which is not toll-free. Some assistance may also be available from the direct broadcast satellite company, broadband radio service provider, television broadcast station, or fixed wireless company whose service is desired.

GUIDANCE ON FILING A PETITION

Q: How do I file a petition or request a waiver at the Commission?

A: There is no special form for a petition. You may simply describe the facts, including the specific restriction(s) that you wish to challenge. If possible, include contact information such as telephone numbers for all parties involved, if available, and attach a copy of the restriction(s) and any relevant correspondence. If this is not possible, be sure to include the exact language of the restriction in question with the petition. General or hypothetical questions about the application or interpretation of the rule cannot be accepted as petitions. To file a Petition for Waiver, follow the requirements in Section 1.4000(c) of the rule. The local government, community association or landlord requesting the waiver must demonstrate "local concerns of a highly specialized or unusual nature."

Petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on all interested parties. For example, if a homeowners' association files a petition seeking a declaratory ruling that its restriction is not preempted and is seeking to enforce the restriction against a specific resident, service must be made on that specific resident. The homeowners' association will not be required to serve all other members of the association, but must provide reasonable, constructive notice of the proceeding to other residents whose interests foreseeably may be affected. This may be accomplished, for example, by placing notices in residents' mailboxes, by placing a notice on a community bulletin board, or by placing the notice in an association newsletter. If a local government seeks a declaratory ruling or a waiver from the Commission, the local government must take steps to afford reasonable, constructive notice to residents in its jurisdiction (e.g., by placing a notice in a local newspaper of general circulation). Proof of constructive notice must be provided with a petition. In this regard, the petitioner should provide a copy of the notice and an explanation of where the notice was placed and how many people the notice reasonably might have reached.

Finally, if a person files a petition or lawsuit challenging a local government's ordinance, an association's restriction, or a landlord's lease, the person must serve the local government, association or landlord, as appropriate. You must include a "proof of service" with your petition. Generally, the "proof of service" is a statement indicating that on the same day that your petition was sent to the Commission, you provided a copy of your petition (and any attachments) to the person or entity that is seeking to enforce the antenna restriction. The proof of service should give the name and address of the parties served, the date served, and the method of service used (e.g., regular mail, personal service, certified mail).

All allegations of fact contained in petitions and related pleadings before the Commission must be supported by an affidavit signed by one or more persons who have actual knowledge of such facts. You must send an original and two copies of the petition and all attachments to:

Secretary, Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20554
Attention: Media Bureau

 

[Rick0725]

the ss-2000 should work fine up to lt green and can be mounted low profile. if you are not satisified then you could return it.

can you at least copy and paste your antennaweb results for your exact address just to make sure the ss2000 is suited there.

When I entered the zip above all the stations were yellow.

we all know the cm4228 is best but it appears the user does not really want one!

 

[Khandurian]

I do apologize for not getting back sooner. Kids are more important than tv.

This is for the map.

A: 16
B: 34
C: 62
D: 31
E: 56, 56.1
F: 27
G: 43, 43.1, 52, 68
H: 2.1, 6, 6.1, 9, 9.1, 14.0, 15.1, 18, 18.1, 24, 24.1, 35, 35.1, 46, 53, 65, 65.1, 68.1
I: 2


Here is a pic of my street map.

Here's the rest of the info:

yellow - uhf WRDQ 27 IND ORLANDO FL 297° 23.4 27
yellow - uhf WOPX 56 ION MELBOURNE FL 267° 28.3 56
* yellow - uhf WOPX-DT 56.1 ION MELBOURN FL 267° 28.3 48
yellow - uhf WSCF-LP 31 IND MELBOURNE FL 264° 2.4 31
yellow - uhf WOTF 43 TFA MELBOURNE FL 310° 18.3 43
yellow - uhf WBCC 68 PBS COCOA FL 310° 18.4 68
yellow - uhf WTGL 52 FMN COCOA FL 310° 18.4 52
green - uhf W46DB 62 UNI MELBOURNE FL 246° 2.7 62
red - uhf W16AJ 16 NBC MELBOURNE, ETC. FL 166° 8.4 16
* red - uhf WFTV-DT 9.1 ABC ORLANDO FL 326° 37.0 39
* red - uhf WRDQ-DT 14.0 IND ORLANDO FL 326° 37.0 14
red - uhf WRBW 65 MNT ORLANDO FL 325° 38.5 65
* red - uhf WTGL-DT 53 FMN COCOA FL TBD 325° 39.1 53
red - uhf WKCF 18 CW CLERMONT FL 325° 38.5 18
* blue - uhf WKCF-DT 18.1 CW CLERMONT FL 325° 39.1 17
blue - vhf WKMG 6 CBS ORLANDO FL 325° 40.3 6
blue - vhf WESH 2 NBC DAYTONA BEACH FL 329° 66.9 2
* blue - vhf WESH-DT 2.1 NBC DAYTONA BEACH FL 328° 39.5 11
* blue - uhf WCEU-DT 15.1 PBS NEW SMYRNA BEACH FL 326° 40.3 33
* blue - uhf WLCB-DT 46 FMN LEESBURG FL FCC Ext 325° 39.1 46
blue - uhf WOFL 35 FOX ORLANDO FL 326° 40.1 35
* blue - uhf WOFL-DT 35.1 FOX ORLANDO FL 326° 40.1 22
blue - vhf WFTV 9 ABC ORLANDO FL 325° 40.3 9
blue - uhf WMFE 24 PBS ORLANDO FL 325° 40.3 24
* blue - uhf WOTF-DT 43.1 TFA MELBOURNE FL 310° 18.3 20
* violet - uhf WMFE-DT 24.1 PBS ORLANDO FL 325° 40.3 23
violet - uhf WTVX 34 CW FORT PIERCE FL 172° 73.4 34
* violet - uhf WRBW-DT 65.1 MNT ORLANDO FL 328° 39.5 41
* violet - uhf WBCC-DT 68.1 PBS COCOA FL 328° 39.5 30
* violet - uhf WKMG-DT 6.1 CBS ORLANDO FL 328° 39.5 58

If you are unable to see it, let me know, i'll try and make it look better.

 

[charper1]

Just to make it a bit easier, can you please do the same search but limit it to displaying digital only and then edit the above.

 

[Khandurian]

* yellow - uhf WOPX-DT 56.1 ION MELBOURN FL .........267°.......... 28.3 .......48
* yellow - uhf WCEU-DT 15.1 PBS NEW SMYRNA BEACH FL .......326° ............40.3 ..............33
* red - uhf WTGL-DT 53 FMN COCOA FL TBD .........325°........... 39.1 ......53
* red - uhf WRDQ-DT 14.0 IND ORLANDO FL ..........326° ............37.0 .....................14
* red - uhf WFTV-DT 9.1 ABC ORLANDO FL ..........326° ............37.0 .............39
* blue - uhf WKCF-DT 18.1 CW CLERMONT FL ..........325°............ 39.1 .............17
* blue - vhf WESH-DT 2.1 NBC DAYTONA BEACH FL ..........328° ...........39.5 ..........11
* blue - uhf WOFL-DT 35.1 FOX ORLANDO FL ........326° ............40.1 .........22
* blue - uhf WLCB-DT 46 FMN LEESBURG FL FCC Ext ..........325° ............39.1 ............46
* blue - uhf WOTF-DT 43.1 TFA MELBOURNE FL ........310° ..........18.3 ..........20
* violet - uhf WBCC-DT 68.1 PBS COCOA FL ..........328° ..........39.5 ..........30
* violet - uhf WMFE-DT 24.1 PBS ORLANDO FL ............325° .......40.3 ..........23
* violet - uhf WRBW-DT 65.1 MNT ORLANDO FL ............328° ..........39.5 .........41
* violet - uhf WKMG-DT 6.1 CBS ORLANDO FL ............328° .........39.5 .........58

 

[Khandurian]

A: 56.1
B: 43.1
C: 2.1, 6.1, 9.1, 14.0, 15.1, 18.1, 24.1, 35.1, 46, 53, 65.1, 68.1




........................Channel.........City..........................Compass.......Miles from....Frequency Assignment
*yellow-uhf...WOPX-DT...56.1....ION.....MELBOURN...........FL...........267°..........28.3............48
*yellow-uhf...WCEU-DT...15.1....PBS.....NEW SMYRNA BEACH...FL...........326°..........40.3............33
*red-uhf......WTGL-DT...53......FMN.....COCOA..............FL..TBD......325°..........39.1............53
*red-uhf......WRDQ-DT...14.0....IND.....ORLANDO ...........FL...........326°..........37.0............14
*red-uhf......WFTV-DT...9.1.....ABC.....ORLANDO............FL...........326°..........37.0............39
*blue-uhf.....WKCF-DT...18.1....CW......CLERMONT...........FL...........325°..........39.1............17
*blue-vhf.....WESH-DT...2.1.....NBC.....DAYTONA BEACH......FL...........328°..........39.5............11
*blue-uhf.....WOFL-DT...35.1....FOX.....ORLANDO............FL...........326°..........40.1............22
*blue-uhf.....WLCB-DT...46......FMN.....LEESBURG...........FL.FCC Ext...325°..........39.1............46
*blue-uhf.....WOTF-DT...43.1....TFA.....MELBOURNE..........FL...........310°..........18.3............20
*violet-uhf...WBCC-DT...68.1....PBS.....COCOA..............FL...........328°..........39.5............30
*violet-uhf...WMFE-DT...24.1....PBS.....ORLANDO............FL...........325°..........40.3............23
*violet-uhf...WRBW-DT...65.1....MNT.....ORLANDO............FL...........328°..........39.5............41
*violet-uhf...WKMG-DT...6.1.....CBS.....ORLANDO............FL...........328°..........39.5............58

Ok here's the new information.

 

[Khandurian]

Well it appears there is a 61 degree beam width needed to be able to get all the channels without using a rotor.

The square shooter has that 61 degree beam width, but thats really pushing it.

The cm4228 only has a 15 degree beam width.

The Antenna's direct has a 100 degree beam width.

Ugh, I'm trying to be able to hide this as much as possible in the back of the house, which I will be able to do, but have a limited section to be able to do that with.

Maybe sometime this week I will take some pic's of the back of the house to get some ideas from you folks.

Thanks.

 

[Jim5506]

If you throw out WOPX-DT You are only looking at an 18 degree beamwidth and with WOPX-DT being yellow you might get it anyway.

 

[Rick0725]

got an idea...

try the amplified square shooter at best buy or the radio shack antenna below. just to get a feel for what will work or not work. if it works and you are satisfied keep it...if not return it and go to plan b. report your results. It will help determine a better alternative.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...1&origkw=antenna&kw=antenna&parentPage=search

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...tenna&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1091101853739

to cut down on the losses you may need to connect the antenna directly to the tuner and not the diplexers.

The antennas above are rated to red. advise how the blue and violet stations are received with the antennas above.

otherwise you are looking at an uglier cm4228 (which may not receive ch 11 to your liking) or other more powerful options.