New FTA service with 20 english channels

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Gary Z

Gary Z

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Jun 27, 2005
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New news release on their site, mpeg2 it is for a year then mpeg4. Lots more updated info there.

News Release: 1/18/2010

This is a news update from one of the three board members that started this org. We would first offer thanks to the LORD for the help and recommendations of the FTA supporters that have contacted us.

After the board meeting today we have decided that we will support the MPEG-2 format for at least a year. Our first option was MPEG-4 due to the 20 channel capability. We will be going to MPEG-4 in the future ,This is more cost effective to us.

We will have a guide for all channels. Not all Fta"s will work correctly with this guide.

Dish size 30 inches is the nominal size., But I will not rule out a smaller one. If you go much smaller your reception will not be reliable.

We need more stations signed on. We are also starting up some stations with other organizers.

We have been in contact with other Studios and uplinkers that have offered their help. If a deal can be worked out with these people we will have a much larger channel lineup with these studios that are currently on cable and pay satellite.

George Metcalf :Retired NASA engineer that helped send up the first DBS satellite. George has advised us on uplinking issues and is a friend.

He has also put us in contact with other persons that have the same thinking on the FTA / TVRO market.

Our goal is at least 40 channels, with a 100 channel maximum capability.
 
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melgarga

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May 11, 2008
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I'll bet Dish is willing to sell Nagra 3 CAS real cheap! Coincidentally, most "FTA" receivers in the market right now, WILL work with it, guaranteed! :D:D :p

Hmmmm...... without skewing this thread in a totally irrelevant direction, a couple of things bear clarifying.
NagraStar technology is wholely owned and managed by Kudelski. Dish Network is one of many customers worldwide that contract them for a secure CAS system. They have influence, like any big customer does over a vendor, but secure signal integrity is Kudelski's responsibility.

No FTA receiver will "work with" Nagra anything, however many have, and continue to circumvent security protocols, using FW written and designed to apply intercepted signal encryption information to an encrypted signal received by an FTA box.
FTA units with stock, factory, OEM firmware know nothing of Nagra3 or any other CAS AFAIK, save XCRYPT.

The objective of the project as I understand it is to utilize much of the now dormant HW restored it's original factory configuration.That would exclude the necessity of using any "aftermarket" or "3rd party" FW written for the express intent of signal theft. That is not to say FW sanctioned by the project to enhance the service (enable CAS functionality for PPV) would be excluded.

Stogie and Sadie, I do see your very valid points regarding the usage of the S2 mode but as was posted that would preclude the base intent, to re-purpose the mass of HW already in many potential Ku-TVRO operators possession. Once established, the trend could, and likely would migrate to that ultimate end.
Besides the obvious advantage of more bang for the bandwidth buck, since most that would likely sign on would be broadcasting SD content there would be no advantage to the end user in the form of greater PQ even though they would be using more expensive HD capable hardware to access the FTA co-op channels.
Another point to consider in narrowing one's potential customer participation is the lesson that we learned called VOOM. If VOOM launched today it would likely succeed even with a proprietary IRD using an archaic CAS. As far as a fledgling free service requiring the purchase of a new high end STB, I dont think it would get out of the gate.
 
Scott Greczkowski

Scott Greczkowski

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Sep 7, 2003
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I wish I had the money to help these guys out a bit. I would love to name the free service the SatelliteGuys Satellite Network. :)

Unfortunately I don't have the money. 2009 was a rough year for us (for myself personally... not the site. ) :)
 
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Jim S.

Jim S.

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Jan 2, 2006
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So they say they want to switch to MPEG4 eventually. I wonder how many of the millions of unused FTA receivers they want to reach are MPEG4 capable.

I don't get the part about the guide not working with all receivers either. Don't they intend to use the DVB EPG standard?
 
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TimLones111

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Sep 7, 2003
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Canton, Ohio
Looks good in most areas thus far..Just hope they dont try to do more than they can handle..
 
primestar31

primestar31

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Melgarga, the Nagravison 3 CAS comment as regarding use of probably 90+% of the presently in the field FTA receivers, was a joke, nothing more. I wasn't inferring anything more than that....

I would LOVE to see this venture really make it. So, good luck to them.
 
Sadoun

Sadoun

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Feb 27, 2005
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I agree with going with DVB-S to start with then eventually switch to DVB-S2 gradually (few channels at a time). This will allow people the time to preview the channels for a period of time on their existing equipment. After 10-12 months, the viewership will increase and the DVB-S2 receivers will become more affordable.

Ok, sounds like a good project, and I am looking forward to seeing it a reality.

Sadoun will be interested in the supplying and fulfillment of the dishes, LNBFs, and receivers to this venture. Count us in when biding starts.
 
pedrogarcia

pedrogarcia

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Dec 27, 2008
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I am with you Sadoun and hwm. DVB-S MPEG2 is the only way to get this venture off the ground if the intention is to get an immediate maximum viewer level and be FTA.
 
Stargazer

Stargazer

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Sep 7, 2003
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Seeing how MPEG-2 is pretty well going by the wasteside for Dish Network along with all analog receivers shortly when they go to 8PSK only, it would be nice if those receivers could be used in conjunction with this service. I know that some MPEG-2 will still be around a little while longer on Dish but eventually it will all be MPEG-4.
 
Tron

Tron

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May 6, 2005
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I wish I had the money to help these guys out a bit. I would love to name the free service the SatelliteGuys Satellite Network. :)

Unfortunately I don't have the money. 2009 was a rough year for us (for myself personally... not the site. ) :)

Scott, I can see the logo now... "S (the SatelliteGuys Logo) N", SGN! Or just the logo with "Network" underneath...

Take THAT Dish! :D
 
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melgarga

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May 11, 2008
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SE Texas
Melgarga, the Nagravison 3 CAS comment as regarding use of probably 90+% of the presently in the field FTA receivers, was a joke, nothing more. I wasn't inferring anything more than that....

I would LOVE to see this venture really make it. So, good luck to them.

Yes, I would too!:)
I kinda figured as much, but felt it would be prudent to clarify to the under and uninformed since DN hacking has been curbed but not eliminated. I was trying to avoid the potential droves of patcheye perps thinking they could just woop out there colective dongles and insert them somewhere into the project and expect free TV.....lol
For the board's sake it's best that all dongles be kept behind closed zippers, or some other obscure location that is out of sight, out of mind.
It was purely a reply to the comment, not the person. No intention on my part to imply such activity on your part. Hopefully your took it that way as well.

I see that there was an update posted while I was typing my previous post, which does correlate with many of the other posters opinions.
Gleening relevant technical info from these updates has proven fruitless. Just an overview that's presented by someone that would speak satgeek would be of some value to the curious.

Setting aside the controversial "dish size" subject, (which I feel is also tailored to attract the attention of those with that type of surplus equipment as well,) lets talk signal polarity instead, IOW where in the Ku spectrum this project plans to reside.
A 22" dish is commonly configured with a circular LNB. Is there TP space available on birds somewhere that transmit these high power circular signals?
This would imply an OEM DN/Bell or DTV dish of 22" or greater w/ OEM LNB would be usable and pointed at one of the Echo/Nimiq birds...........hmmmmmm (I just dont see Charlie Ergen sharing his Echo birds for this competitive venture.)

If this is to be a linearly polarized venture, then I will need to call on some of the S2 gurus for the answer to my next (obvious) question regarding the proposed move to MPEG4/S2. Can a linear Ku DVB-S2 signal reliably (if at all) be captured on a 22" dish? Based on my personal experience with less fussy DBV-S signals on dishes smaller than 30 inches, and what I've read regarding C band S2 reception, (and C band is FAR more forgiving than Ku) I'm thinking it's not gonna happen.

If this mode (linear) is the target of the project, IMHO 30" should be the minimum and 39" (1 meter) should be the recommended for reliable DVB-S reception. DVB-S2 may require even more dish surface area for reliable operation, but I defer to the S2 guys to make the definitive comment on that.

Knowing what portion of the Ku spectrum the folks doing the project intend to use in there master plan would fill in many of the technical voids. Current info is too incomplete and contradictatory to extrapolate the potential success or validity of the project. As was posted, I guess we will just have to wait and see.......lol

I saw a commercial recently about some Washinton SIGs lobbying to implement pay OTA TV. I cant say I didnt see this comming and warn of it when they forced out analog OTA. If that actually gets off the ground, (based on the inept and clueless way the Feds/FCC have handled broadcast resources I have no reason to believe it wont eventually happen) that could motivate participation from both broadcasters and viewers for a project such as this.
 
A

avg1joe

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 27, 2006
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Southern Maine
I was thinking about their target audience which appears to be former hackers. I wonder if any of them think that free programming will be worth watching. "If I don't have to steal it it must not be good."

It would be funny if they reformatted their site to look like hack sites and offer up to date "bins" or "files" which will allow you to hack these 20 channels. All you do is install this firmware (which is really renamed factory firmware), go to the parental settings page and enter the key of 0000 when prompted for a password at a certain place on that page to fully activate the decryption software. This hackware could either be leaked to the other hack sites or the hack sites could brag that their last dish hack already hacks this service.

To ensure that the folks with a conscience would still watch they could provide complimentary free access to people on sites like this one.
 
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melgarga

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 11, 2008
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SE Texas
lololol...........you have a suspicious, skeptical streak in you joe......my kinda person:cool:
 
LoTech

LoTech

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Jan 22, 2009
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Whitesburg, Kentucky
Their website says that they intend to support MPEG-2 for at least a year and then phase in MPEG-4 and possibly have up to 100 channels in the future.

I know that some are skeptical that this will happen, but I for one will wait patiently. If it doesn't happen, then it hasn't cost me anything. If it does, then we will all reap the benefits.
 
sideswiper

sideswiper

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May 9, 2008
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pontypool ont. canada
Cant wait tell it is up and running as for MPEG4/S2 receivers you can pick them up cheap on ebay right now seen pansat 9200 with board $200 or a PC card is a cheap route if your pc has the horsepower
 
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badpistacio

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 19, 2009
36
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Monterey, CA
This whole thing has got me excited. I'm just getting into FTA and next weekend I'll have my dish set up. I've heard everyone's comments about the likelihood of these channels actually happening, but I'm kind of an optimist. Plus I think it's cool when something "Family Oriented" goes up against DN and DTV. :)
 
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