New Home Wiring Advice

[rdlenk]

Hello all,

I am in the middle of building a new house and the RG-6/CAT6 is to be installed on Monday. I currently have Dish but it is an older ViP 722k and I want to upgrade to a Hopper system. I plan to have HDTV service available to 7 TVs so I have been able to figure out that means 2 Hoppers and 5 Joey's with the option for one more Joey (max 8 TVs, with only 6 with live TV). I need some help figuring out the best way to wire the house so this will work.

All the wiring in the house will home-run to a central structured media panel, coax runs could be as long as 100ft between the panel and the different TV locations so I think this will be at the max the Hopper/Joey system can handle. The dish on the side of the house will be about 50 feet from this panel and my questions mostly revolve around it. I have seen online that the Duo Node should go on the outside of the house about 10 feet from the dish and will have three cables that run to the dish and 4 cables that will need to run (in my case) to the media panel. I really dislike cables on the side of my house so is it possible to put the node in the media panel and have 3, 40-50ft cables run to the dish? Also, where the dish has to go on the South side of the house is not close to my grounding point so what is the best way to handle that? Every place there is RG-6 there will also be CAT6 for my home network so one or both Hoppers (and all the Joeys too) could be connected directly to the network if needed. In the structured media panel, I would like to have the Duo Node, both host lines will run directly to the two Hoppers (no Taps), the two client lines will go to splitters (one 3-way and one 2-way) and then off to the Joey locations. All the coax is RG-6 rated at 3GHz or better.

As an inventory, I would need:
1 x Dish Pro Plus 1000.4 (or something?) dish/LNB
1 x Duo Node
1 x 3-way spliiter (any required spec's for the splitters?)
1 x 2-way splitter
Lots of RG-6

I will probably go through an installer when it comes time to actually install the dish, Hoppers, and Joeys (maybe just for installing/pointing the dish) but I want to be sure all the cables are in place; again, I dislike cables on the side of my house.

Can anyone help me out with my questions? If anyone has any pointers for the wiring or if I missed anything please let me know. The wiring will go in soon but we won't be moving in until July so maybe I should plan for different hardware? From what it sounds like I won't be able to benefit from a Super Joey anyways but maybe the Wireless Joey makes sense somewhere? Maybe as the 8th TV if that happens someday. On a side note, I wish this system just used my data network.

Thank you all in advance, this looks like a great community judging by what I have read in the forums.

-Ryan

 

[Bobby]

It sounds like you are on the right track. In my home installation, all coaxes to the receivers go from my garage to the receiver locations. I only have a single Hopper so I have coaxes that go from the dish to that same location in the garage. Those two coaxes connect to a single node and the Hopper wires directly to that node. My two Joeys are connected to a splitter that is also wired to the node. Your difference is that you will need 3 coaxes from the dish to a duo node.

 

[sparc]

I have seen online that the Duo Node should go on the outside of the house about 10 feet from the dish and will have three cables that run to the dish and 4 cables that will need to run (in my case) to the media panel. I really dislike cables on the side of my house so is it possible to put the node in the media panel and have 3, 40-50ft cables run to the dish?

It doesn't matter whether duo node is outside or inside. The nodes are weatherproof so either one is fine. Possibly a little more reliable to have it inside as it's not exposed to the elements. Definitely easier to maintain in bad weather if it's inside.

The 10 foot rule you mentioned doesn't exist. It's not in any of the Dish diagrams.

here's some wiring diagrams to get an idea: http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/279755-Hopper-And-Joey-Wiring-Diagrams

Joeys need to be activated on coax, but after the tech leaves you can run them on your network. If you already have the coax run, you might as well use it for the Joeys. If you have coax everywhere, you won't need a wireless Joey either.

You only need 1 Hopper connected to your network and then enable bridging on that hopper to get all the internet related apps/services working.

 

[rdlenk]

Great! I am glad to hear the location of the node is less important than I was led to believe. I used the wiring diagrams and information in those PDFs to come up with my plan but I wanted to check with the community to make sure I am doing things right. Would hate to move in to the house only to find out I need to run cables all over. Thank you both for the replies.

 

[sparc]

There are some recommended distance limitations in the wiring diagrams, but the node can basically be anywhere in between. These are the general guidelines:

• Maximum 200-foot cable length from LNBF to farthest Hopper
• Maximum 200-foot cable length between any Hopper and Joey

 

[hudgreen]

In order to meet the NEC codes as well as dish installation requirements , the dish will need to be grounded and the cables also need to be grounded (ground block) before entering the house.
The node itself can be used as the ground block (it's UL listed) if its installed outside.

I tell you this because your installer is most likely going to want to ground it per dish's rules to avoid a potential charge-back or other liabilities.
So if you "stub out" wires where you want the dish to go then also pull a ground wire as well.

Can you get away with just grounding it at your panel via the node, probably
Will your installer agree to that, who knows ?
Should the dish itself be grounded, I would (it drains harmful static buildup)
Have I seen systems perform just fine for years and years without any grounding at all, yes

Also if your interested in using an OTA antenna in the system you will need a second coax at the hopper as it cannot be combined like it could with vip receivers

 

[navychop]

My duo node is inside my attic, within ten feet of the dish. But that's just by happenstance. Some early duo nodes did not work well outside. One coax to each TV location.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[dvrexpander]

Make sure all RG6 is 3Ghz swept and make sure you run more than 1 line to each location cause cables do fail and its always good to have a backup in those walls to avoid issues later on. More is better than not enough.

As for grounding, half the systems I install are not grounded some of which for a reason of bad wiring to start with. You can ground at the node but if you wish to run a small ground line from the dish to a ground point that is all that is needed to make you sleep better at night. I have my system fully rewired and I didn't ground it and haven't had a problem nor do I feel that I'll ever have an issue. Keep in mind that there is plastic on the dish, and I've only ever seen ONE dish hit by lightning and cause any issues and even then it was the reflector being shrunk in by the heat causing signal drop. Very low amounts of static build up on a reflector these days even from major high winds, just not enough to cause any issue that I've ever seen.

 

[charlesrshell]

If you are still in the middle of building your new home, now is the time to run conduit for your satellite dish and OTA coax. Research your OTA signals to determine if the antenna can be installed in the attic. Run both OTA and dish coax in conduit hidden in the walls to your central structured media panel so they will not be on the side of your house. Duo Node would be better to put in your media panel so it is out of the weather and easier to troubleshoot your Dish system when required. All TV locations would be nice to have at least two coax from your media panel for future proofing. You never know if you want to move a Hopper to different location. That way there will be a coax for OTA and Satellite. Hoppers cannot sync recordings. So if you want to sync to another TV, the Hopper does not have built in modulators like their past DVRs had. So, you will need coax for RF modulators to run to your central system. Now is the time to install Cat6 to all rooms. It is nice to have a choice to run things wireless or hard wired. When I rewired my home getting her ready for Dish TV, I ran four coax to three Hopper positions. One each coax for satellite, OTA, modulated out, and modulated in signal. Also ran Cat cable to the Hoppers and Joey. All cables run to my central redneck media center. Here is my setup.

 

[raoul5788]

to Satelliteguys rdlenk!

 

[raoul5788]

Charles, I think you have the nicest installation I have ever seen! You must have done it yourself, yes?

 

[charlesrshell]

You might need to install a ground rod if your dish is not located close to your home's main grounding point. I think the ground rod would be installed close to your dish antenna and then a ground wire attached to it and your home's main grounding rod. If this needs to be done, now is the time before you have sod laid in the yard. All this needs to be done by code. Some requirements might be ground rod size, depth to be in the ground, ground wire size/type/distance, etc, etc. Now is the time to do your grounding system so it is easier, cost less, and have a proper install so you have a good ground system for your equipment and keep you safe. I am not a Dish TV installer so not sure of all this info, but maybe some Dish/Direct TV installers can help out with better grounding info. Here is a diagram but not sure how accurate it is for Dish TV requirements and the National and local code.

 

[charlesrshell]

Charles, I think you have the nicest installation I have ever seen! You must have done it yourself, yes?

Thanks, I did everything with the exception of installing the dish 1000+ on the wall. Also, the retailor installed a wing dish 500 on my roof that I have since done away with. Took it down just last week because had to have a new roof installed and didn't need wing dish anymore. Needed it when I joined Dish TV back in 2007 because I needed to spot five birds to get all the channels I wanted. I installed the complete central media section in my basement. Retailor said it was the easiest job he ever done. I had lotsa help from members in this forum back in 2007.

 

[foghorn2]

Agree with Charles, run conduit. If I had the option back then, I would have.

 

[navychop]

Actually, I run two coax to each drop - one for OTA. And in fact, in a couple of places I ran a third coax, for when the Vip722 used two - I preferred that to using a separator. But I've done it both ways and can't say one works any better than the other.

NONE of my dishes have ever been grounded.

 

[harshness]

Make sure all RG6 is 3Ghz swept and make sure you run more than 1 line to each location cause cables do fail and its always good to have a backup in those walls to avoid issues later on.

Hogwash!

MoCA is all below 1GHz. The high frequency, high amperage link is uniquely between the LNB assembly and the Duo node. The rest can be pretty much whatever. Since this is a new wire, it makes sense to install good cable, but it certainly isn't required for the modern whole home systems.

I would also dispute that coaxial cable is considered a common point of failure. Properly installed cable will last longer than most will need to worry about.

 

[foghorn2]

Hogwash!

MoCA is all below 1GHz. The high frequency, high amperage link is uniquely between the LNB assembly and the Duo node. The rest can be pretty much whatever. Since this is a new wire, it makes sense to install good cable, but it certainly isn't required for the modern whole home systems.

I would also dispute that coaxial cable is considered a common point of failure. Properly installed cable will last longer than most will need to worry about.

3 GHz rated between Node and Hopper.
LNB to node can be 2150.

 

[JSheridan]

Hogwash!

MoCA is all below 1GHz. The high frequency, high amperage link is uniquely between the LNB assembly and the Duo node. The rest can be pretty much whatever. Since this is a new wire, it makes sense to install good cable, but it certainly isn't required for the modern whole home systems.

I would also dispute that coaxial cable is considered a common point of failure. Properly installed cable will last longer than most will need to worry about.

From the LNB to the node is only 2250Mhz at the most. The most important piece of cable is the one from the node to the Hopper. That's carrying three tuners and MOCA and should be very good quality swept to 3Ghz.

 

[sparc]

Hogwash! MoCA is all below 1GHz. The high frequency, high amperage link is uniquely between the LNB assembly and the Duo node. The rest can be pretty much whatever. Since this is a new wire, it makes sense to install good cable, but it certainly isn't required for the modern whole home systems.

Dish uses 650MHz to 3Ghz from the node to the hopper so those lines should have properly rated cable swept to 3GHz. Only 650 to 875MHz is MoCA which is why Joeys can use even RG59. If you're installing all new RG6, it would be foolish to use anything that's not rated to at least 3GHz.

see here http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=74861&d=1331081693

 

[foghorn2]

Also Super Joey will need RG6 2150, no RG59.

My opinion just use 3.0 tested/rated and run the fattest conduit possible.
Cat 6 everywhere also.