New to FTA satellite

[johnson636]

I know most people don't particularly care for noobs who don't try to help themselves before asking noobish questions that may have been covered in other threads, but I'm really trying. I am really at a loss here. I can't get any results and I have no clue as to why that is. I've searched the forum, google, and yahoo but I'm still lost.

The dish that is on my house is a Directv dish with three lnbs. There are trees in the direction of the dish, but obviously that wasn't a problem for the directv installer. I keep reading about skew or polarization setting, but I don't see any setting for that on the dish. The only thing that I can adjust is elevation and Azimuth; I can't adjust the azimuth beyond 140. I have the dish set as 38.7 elevation and 130.5 azimuth. Within MT 3.38: 298.5 Echostar 3 TPN-22, LOF1-9750000 SW11700000 LOF2-11250000. I have no idea which band to choose: KU-LIN, KU-Cir, C-Band. Last night, in the main menu of MT where it shows the card I have installed, there was two little boxes that had 48% and 32% today its 0. Half of the things that I've posted I have no clue of their meaning, I just posted them to give you guys as much info as possible.
The dish is a Direct TV Triple Feed Multi Satellite LNB with built in multi switch model # 150946. There was coax already connected to the dish, but my cable installer cut them. One of the coax has what seems to be a ground wire connected to the base of the dish, but I doubt that its grounded being that the coax is cut. What I did was run coax from the dish to my TwinhanDTV StarBox, thats all. I don't know if there's something else I'm supposed to connect, but if so please Let me know

I really need help with this.

 

[Mr Tony]

I know most people don't particularly care for noobs who don't try to help themselves before asking noobish questions that may have been covered in other threads, but I'm really trying.

we like to help everyone regardless of noobyism (is that even a word)
we were all noobs once

The dish that is on my house is a Directv dish with three lnbs. There are trees in the direction of the dish, but obviously that wasn't a problem for the directv installer. I keep reading about skew or polarization setting, but I don't see any setting for that on the dish. The only thing that I can adjust is elevation and Azimuth; I can't adjust the azimuth beyond 140. I have the dish set as 38.7 elevation and 130.5 azimuth. Within MT 3.38: 298.5 Echostar 3 TPN-22, LOF1-9750000 SW11700000 LOF2-11250000. I have no idea which band to choose: KU-LIN, KU-Cir, C-Band. Last night, in the main menu of MT where it shows the card I have installed, there was two little boxes that had 48% and 32% today its 0. Half of the things that I've posted I have no clue of their meaning, I just posted them to give you guys as much info as possible.
The dish is a Direct TV Triple Feed Multi Satellite LNB with built in multi switch model # 150946. There was coax already connected to the dish, but my cable installer cut them. One of the coax has what seems to be a ground wire connected to the base of the dish, but I doubt that its grounded being that the coax is cut. What I did was run coax from the dish to my TwinhanDTV StarBox, thats all. I don't know if there's something else I'm supposed to connect, but if so please Let me know

I really need help with this.

A DirecTV Phase III really wont get much. Only the "101" LNB will work at other spots but there really isnt much on 110 & 119 for free. NASA, Angel One and the audio channels (sans Sirius). You really need a 30" dish and a KU LNB for FTA

 

[johnson636]

Well I would like to just get one channel just to let me know that I'm doing something correctly. I really would like to know if the problem is human error, the trees, or the weather. I have a compass but I'm not entirely sure using it to locate a satellite or just any satellite (Echostar 3 61.5w, 110w, etc.) whether I can view the channels or not, I just want to know if I've pointed the dish at a satellite.


EDIT

Let me ask this. I have a compass, The azimuth of 248.869585 and elevation of 21.429911 (according to monsterfm.com). Now my confusion starts here; with my compass, do I try to locate the satellite using the longitude of the satellite (119 degrees) or the azimuth of 248? I've read that I am supposed to set the azimuth degree on the dish itself, but my dish doesn't have a number larger 140; this is whats confusing me.

Can someone shed some light on this?

Another thing, I read the LNB's voltage is supplied by the receiver, but that statement is referring to the STBs. Does this also apply to the DVB-s cards?

 

[Mr Tony]

Well I would like to just get one channel just to let me know that I'm doing something correctly. I really would like to know if the problem is human error, the trees, or the weather. I have a compass but I'm not entirely sure using it to locate a satellite or just any satellite (Echostar 3 61.5w, 110w, etc.) whether I can view the channels or not, I just want to know if I've pointed the dish at a satellite.

On the dish you have, the right LNB (if standing behind the dish) is probably aimed at 101. When dealing with multiple LNB's, they go backwards of how they are in the sky Use that LNB...the rest wont work

EDIT

Let me ask this. I have a compass, The azimuth of 248.869585 and elevation of 21.429911 (according to monsterfm.com). Now my confusion starts here; with my compass, do I try to locate the satellite using the longitude of the satellite (119 degrees) or the azimuth of 248? I've read that I am supposed to set the azimuth degree on the dish itself, but my dish doesn't have a number larger 140; this is whats confusing me.

Can someone shed some light on this?

azimuth is where in the sky you need to aim the dish. So if it says 248, then aim in that vicinity (dead south is 180, dead west is 270). Elevation is what would be adjusted on the dish (the slide scale on the side)

Another thing, I read the LNB's voltage is supplied by the receiver, but that statement is referring to the STBs. Does this also apply to the DVB-s cards?

yes

 

[johnson636]

Before I begin with more questions, let me so thanks to you Iceberg Often times noobs like myself get so caught up in fixing their problem, we tend to forget to give thanks to those whom take the time to answer our questions:up

On the dish you have, the right LNB (if standing behind the dish) is probably aimed at 101. When dealing with multiple LNB's, they go backwards of how they are in the sky Use that LNB...the rest wont work

Well I've moved the dish in every direction possible so I doubt it is still pointing at 101. Now if I point the dish at 248 degrees then how is it possible for the three LNBs to be pointing at different satellites? How do I go about aiming the LNBs individually? How do I know which LNB is pointing where. How do I measure to see if the LNBs are receiving the correct voltage or any voltage for that matter? How do I find out whether the LNBs on the DirecTV Phase III are: normal, universal, or custom? KU-LIN, KU-Cir, or C-Band? The frequency Lof1, SW, and Lof2?

A STB's signal can be tested and adjusted by connecting the cable to the dish and while one person is watching the tv for a picture another person is adjusting the dish until a picture is found; Can something similar to this be done with a DVB-s pc card? I'm using MyTheatre 3.8 and the steps I'm taking are pointing the dish and then coming inside to adjust MT for a scan.

Now I know some may read this and see that I'm asking about pointing the dish at Directv satellites without a subscription and thats true, but thats because its a Directv dish and I just want to be able to point the dish at a satellite successfully whether I'm able to view the channels or not. If MT says the channels are scrambled, then that means that I've pointed the dish correctly and thats what I'm trying to accomplish first.

I have to crawl before I'm able to walk.

 

[Anole]

getting up to speed

Type in your zip code at this site and it'll spew out a PDF file with all the FTA satellites listed, and how to aim at them, customized just for your location.
There are other web sites, and other programs you can run to get the same answers, but this one works, and you gotta start somewhere.

Words to live by: (simplified)
Azimuth is your east-west aim to the satellite.
Longitude (the long way) is where you are by measuring around the planet.
Elevation is how high up in the sky the bird is.
Latitude is how far north you are from the equator.

Note that south is not south; north is not north.
There is an offset in the earth's magnetic field, depending on where you are, and the you'll get two azimuth listings for each bird.
One is true, and the other is magnetic.
The "magnetic" column will give you the direction to aim if you are using a magnetic compass... as most of us are.

The Phase III (?) dish you are using acts like a big mirror.
The two side LNBs "look" slightly to the side of the central one.
But, the right LNB looks left, and the left LNB looks right.... just as if each were looking into a mirror.
Think of the dish reflector as a mirror - it'll help.

The pole the dish is mounted on must be completely plumb.
That means a level placed alongside the top part of the pole must read perfectly vertical, even when moved around the pole to a number of different sides.

Looking down on the dish from above, aim it toward a satellite of interest, then rotate it about 9º clockwise to account for the good LNB being slightly off the center line.

You really need to find a good guide for setting up MyTheatre.
It's a tall order, and goes well beyond the scope of one posting, here.
The LNBs on that dish are all circular, and as Iceberg mentioned above, you can at best use just one.
The program settings are: 22khz tone off; Local Oscillator frequency 11.250ghz, LNB power on, diseqc switch off, ...

Here's some good reading for ya:
The limited beginner stuff you can get on that dish, just to get started.
Using the Phase III dish to receive circular fta signals.
...and if you read deeper into that thread, we change over to mounting a linear LNB to get some of the hotter real FTA signals...

However, I do strongly support what Iceberg said above: get a 30-36" dish and a linear LNB for receiving these real FTA satellites and programming.

 

[iafirebuff]

THANKS for the link to the GEO SAT site! That is just what I need! THANKS!

 

[johnson636]

Well it looks like I'm gonna have to do a little troubleshooting to see where my problem is.

Within MT I get 0% signal strength and quality, but within the software that came with the card it shows signal strength is 14-18% and quality is 32%. When I disconnect the coax from the card, signal strength drops to 7% and the signal quality doesn't change. I wonder why that is?

Now I have to check the voltage coming from the card. Now I read that on the odd transponders the voltage should be 13v and the even should be 18v. How do I switch between transponders during this test?

 

[SatPhreak]

Since the dish you have has more than one lnb and you can't use the middle lnb you will have to point the dish at 128 sat(there isn't one there but you will need to manually enter 128degrees as the sat to point to) in order to pick up 119 on the right most lnb(looking from back of dish). This is because the direct tv dishes point at 110 in order to get 110sat on centre lnb, 101 on right lnb, and 119 on left lnb. Since I don't know your location, I can't give to the correct numbers but it will have to point farther west than you think if you are using 119 as the sat to aim to. To set the skew you need to loosen the bolts on the back of the dish and rotate the dish. Example: if skew is to be 20 degrees you would need to set it to 110 (90 + 20=110).

 

[lumpkin666]

I don't have any experience with these multi-lnb dishes.. but it just hit me that if he's setting his elevation based on a single lnb dish and then skewing the dish, won't his elevation be off? Since he's not using the center lnbf, the outside lnbf will either be higher or lower than the center lnbf (which is what I presume that elevation on the dish corresponds to).

I guess SatPhreak hit the nail on the head though.. since if you offset the aiming position to account for the offset lnbf, you'll effectively offset the elevation of the outside lnbf by skewing the dish. Maybe everyone else what tracking this issue all along, but it just hit me what a mess aiming this sucker is going to be because of the only usable lnbf being on the outside instead of the middle (okay, so I'm a little slow!)

 

[johnson636]

Found something interesting. A classmate of mine let me hold his RCA DRD222RD so I could use the signal meter function of the box. When I connected the box to my tv and proceeded to the signal meter, after entering my zip code, my coordinates were 188w elevation 50. At the signal strength screen it stated for me to move my satellite 3 degrees, so I went outside and moved it about 3 degrees. I come back inside only to find the box telling me the same thing, "move your dish 3 degrees. I went back outside and turned the dish as far right as I could and it still said the same thing. I disconnected the coax running from the dish to the box and guess what..........same thing. Does anyone know what my problem is and how I should fix it.

I read in the manual that when the signal gets stronger, the beeping sound speeds up to a continuous beep, is this so?

 

[Anole]

Well, the multi-LNB dishes rotate (for skew) around their center-of-aim, so no, they won't be off in elevation when you skew them.
Set the elevation - it will be fine.
Set the skew (both on the mount).

edit: Lumpkin, I re-read your comment.
Technically you are correct.
However, let's not complicate the issue too much for a beginner.

The true problem is knowing where the damned thing is pointed in the sky once you've skewed it a lot.
Ya just can't tell.
I thought of bringing that up in my tome above, but as you can see, I was trying to keep it brief.

If you want instructions, here's how to do it....
1). Set the skew to zero/90/straight up or whatever you call it.
2). Aim the LNB arm according to the printout for the desired bird, and your compass.
3). follow the comment in the post above about turning it 9º more clockwise
4). Dial in the required skew on the mount behind the dish.

Now, you will have to move the dish around a little bit up/down/left/right, looking for your signal.
And FTA receivers need to be preset to the right frequency and channel specs before you even try.
That's all documented in Iceberg's nice list of hot transponders.

 

[Anole]

Found something interesting.
( . . .)
Does anyone know what my problem is and how I should fix it.

It's not registering any signal at all.
When you are on a DirecTV bird, it should have a tone and beep as you described.

However, that's not going to help you a lot with your computer card.
You might or might not see a signal, but since the cards receive DVB and DirecTV transmits out of spec signals (they precede the spec), the card may or may not show anything.
You need to get the one LNB aimed at 119 (Dish) to get NASA, Angel, and one or two other unscrambled signals.

If you can get your hands on one of those $10-20 satellite aiming meters, this'll go a whole lot faster.

 

[john green]

The RCA DirecTV receivers almost always say move dish 3 degrees. Don't go by that. Follow the instructions Anole is giving you.

 

[johnson636]

It's not registering any signal at all.
When you are on a DirecTV bird, it should have a tone and beep as you described.

I have a directv box and dish, so they should be able to receive a signal from a directv satellite right? If the dish is aimed at the directv satellite with a strong signal, I should get some type of tone or beep, right? Now would that tone/beep be continuous (beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep) or would it be a repeating beep (beep....beep....beep)

It's not registering any signal at all.

However, that's not going to help you a lot with your computer card.
You might or might not see a signal, but since the cards receive DVB and DirecTV transmits out of spec signals (they precede the spec), the card may or may not show anything.
You need to get the one LNB aimed at 119 (Dish) to get NASA, Angel, and one or two other unscrambled signals.

Like I stated earlier, at this point all I want to do is successfully point the dish at any bird, whether I can view channels or not. Since I have a directv dish and box, then I'm concentrating on directv satellites. If I were to practice and learn how to point the dish using directv equipment, then when I purchase the free to air equipment, I'd use the knowledge I'd gain from practicing with the directv stuff.

If you can get your hands on one of those $10-20 satellite aiming meters, this'll go a whole lot faster.

I thought that is what the signal meter feature of the box is for What I'm trying to find out is if the dish is damaged or not. I measured the voltages on the coax from the box and they're fine. But like I stated earlier, no matter where I point the dish (extreme left, right, up, or down) the box says the same thing "move your dish 3 degrees" It even says this when I disconnect the dish from the box. If I run the signal meter test and move the dish in different direction, then shouldn't I get a different result than "move your dish 3 degrees?"

 

[Larry1]

Just think of the "move your dish 3 degrees" to actually be... no signal detected. It is telling you to move your dish untill a signal is detected. 3 degrees is a very small movement. Point your compas at the horizon and pickout a feature. Then pickout another feature 3 degrees from there. Just see how fine of movement 3 degrees is.

 

[johnson636]

Just think of the "move your dish 3 degrees" to actually be... no signal detected. It is telling you to move your dish untill a signal is detected. 3 degrees is a very small movement. Point your compas at the horizon and pickout a feature. Then pickout another feature 3 degrees from there. Just see how fine of movement 3 degrees is.

OOOOOH! So The box is not telling me to move the dish three degrees in relation to the location of the satellite, but when I move the dish, move it in 3 degree increments.

So what about the beep? How do I know if I'm getting closer to the satellite?

Thanx for clearing that up Larry:up You must speak noob

 

[Larry1]

I do not know what the correct settings are for your
LOF1-9750000 SW11700000 LOF2-11250000
but if they are not correct, you will not get a reading. The Twinhan are also known for low signal an quality readings, so this also makes it more difficult for aligning the dish. You also need to be sure you are on an active transponder when you are adjusting the dish. Those little satellite finders can be had very reasonably and will help greatly in finding the satellite. However once found, your computer display of signal quality is needed for fine tuning the dish. With MyTheatre on the bottom of the display when you roll your mouse over, you will see the signal and quality readings.

 

[johnson636]

OK back to pointing the dish, remember I didn't mount the dish so I don't know what was used as a measuring point. Let me explain in noob terms. Lets say two people live next door to one another and (Hypothetically) one person has his dish mounted on a 200ft pole and the other person has his dish mounted on a three foot pole. They both will be looking to point at the same bird. Now given there is a 197ft difference in height, when they set their elevation wouldn't they point at different spots? Now when it comes to setting the azimuth with a compass, is that really possible? I mean even if I'm holding the compass and find, lets say 188 degree, then I would have to try and physically remember where 188 degrees is and point the dish in that direction........Impossible.

Don't even get me started on skew; I have absolutely no idea what that is, how to set it, and where on the dish to set it. The only thing that I can adjust on the dish is elevation (which it clearly states on the dish) and azimuth, which is referred to as tilt on my dish. Everyone that mentions skew, does exactly that.....mention it. Nothing is ever stated as to how to set the skew, where on the dish do you go to set it, and what determines the skew. There absolutely has to be something that I'm missing because I can't possibly imagine anyone successfully pointing a dish with a compass, using the instruction of: set the elevation, azimuth, and skew, especially when there is only two adjustments that can be made to a dish

 

[voomvoom]

When that Bird (satellite) is 22,300 miles from you and your neighbor. I don't think 197' is going to make any difference. You will both be pointing in the same direction.

Al