Salsa went to the Lions "School of Drafting".Report to Dean Millen.
WHEN was the last time THIS many OL went in the 1st round in one year?
NFL 2008-09 Season
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WHEN was the last time THIS many OL went in the 1st round in one year?
Can you take the current top 10 players at any other position and say that 9 of the 10 came via a first round draft selection?
Offensive linemen are the safest pick in NFL draft! This is not a debate, but instead a simple fact.....
From Chicago Tribune article.......
"Over the last decade, 43 wide receivers have been chosen in the first round. Only 46 percent have established themselves as solid starters in my estimation.
Taking a quarterback is safer. But not safe enough. Of the 28 quarterbacks chosen in the first round over the last 10 years, 57 percent have established themselves as solid starters
There is a hit-and-miss factor with running backs as well. Thirty have been first-round picks since 1998, and 56 percent have become solid starters.
Whereas your chances of drafting a high-end offensive lineman aren't as good, your chances of drafting a bust offensive lineman are much lower. An incredible 90 percent of the 41 linemen taken in the first round over the last 10 years have become solid starters.
In an era when first-round gambles can haunt a franchise for years, there simply is no safer pick than an offensive lineman.
Selecting an offensive lineman in the first round is like putting your money in a certificate of deposit instead of the stock market or real estate. You know exactly what you are going to get in return.
Part of the reason is offensive linemen are easier to evaluate. They are tested on virtually every snap, so scouts have many more opportunities to judge a blocker.
There also is a carry-over from the college game to the pro game with offensive linemen that does not always exist with other offensive players. The responsibilities of offensive linemen don't change as much after graduation.
"Every team at every level of football is going to line up with five offensive linemen and four pass rushers, for the most part," said Browns general manager Phil Savage, who drafted left tackle Joe Thomas last year and saw him make the Pro Bowl as a rookie. "That doesn't change. Whereas some teams play with two receivers, some play with four. And the scheme changes affect receivers. In the NFL most quarterbacks are under center. In college, most of them are in shotgun.
"There is more consistency in the evaluation of offensive linemen from college to pro than any other position, and that equates to high draft picks being more successful."
Who knows? I'm still flabbergast that Millen actually made an attempt at drafting properly. I don't know if I agree with the players he drafted, but at least he drafted for positions we needed help at. I do like the trades, I thought he bought value to the pick numbers, and I do believe that Kevin Smith will be the steal of the draft. I don't care who this kid played against, 2500+ yds. in one season is very impressive. Time will tell on the other picks, which were al described by Marinelli as having high "football character". (Which apparently means they're weight room junkies, undersized, and watch a lot of game film.)
Just thought of something.....
With Brett Favre retiring from the Packers, the Lion's now have the best QB in the NFC North!!! When was the last time that could be said?! Congrat's Detroit!
Think about it:
Chicago- Rex Grossman
Detroit- Jon Kitna
Green Bay- Aaron Rogers
Minnesota- Tavaris Jackson
I'd take Kitna over any of the others.
With Brett Favre retiring from the Packers, the Lion's now have the best QB in the NFC North!!! When was the last time that could be said?! Congrat's Detroit!
Think about it:
Chicago- Rex Grossman
Detroit- Jon Kitna
Green Bay- Aaron Rogers
Minnesota- Tavaris Jackson
I'd take Kitna over any of the others.
Please add the link to this story....please make sure you check out what I highlighted. OL are like lefthanded pitcher....if there is no major injury, you can be around for awhile....punting team, kicking team 1st team offessive unit...2nd offensive unit. A receiver, a running back and a QB are more prone to injury than OL in my opinion while OL are being pushed, grab and occassionally tackled, the OTHER skilled positions are being hunted down to be hit.....there IS a difference.
And that ONE article is nothing more than one mans' opinion.
1) The link to this original article IS there. Highlight over "Offensive Linemen are the Safest Pick in the NFL Draft".
2) You're really grasping at straws to justify your earlier comments. I've still not heard a legitimate argument on why you feel that "taking an offensive linemen in the first round is a stupid financial mistake".
3) I've provided a list of the recent/current top 10 O-Linemen in the League and where they were drafted. The link I've provided you went back and reviewed the previous 10 years!
4) You even said that the O-Line is the second most important position on the team. If by your account, this position is that important and "less injury prone", (as you state above), why would picking a player of such great importance be so "stupid"?
5) Until you prove otherwise, I continue to stand by my original statement: "Of all the truly superior Tackles out there, they have one thing in common. They were all (with moderate exceptions) drafted high in the first round"
6) Saying otherwise and especially.....
is just plain ridiculous.
Have you noticed that the LIONS do not have anyone in that list of O Linemen ?
Over the past 10 years the Lions have drafted plenty of O linemen, very few have turned out to be an anyone else would want.
Best one I can think of was Jeff Hartings and he got tired of losing and went to Pittsburgh, he has since retired.
Jimbo
Jimbo
Again...HOW many drafts....with HOW many rounds in HOW many years have we had.....and you listed HOW many drafted in the 1st round.....? 10?
Come on now! You really don't understand my reasoning? I've explained this how many times? This is becoming rather difficult Salsa.
I simply took the current top 10 Offensive Linemen in the league. This is based on performance, recognition and/or pro-bowl appearances. By examining the list of top 10 linemen, I found that there was one common trait among them. That common trait was that 9 of them were chosen in the first round.
Take the top 10 players in any other position in the NFL. I dare you. I really doubt that you will find that 90% of them came via a first round draft pick. This is the basis of my original thought that O-Linemen are not only the safest pick in the draft, but the most likely to succeed based on their draft rank. Not a hard conclusion to make by this analysis.
Again....your sample size is 10.....how many rounds per draft...7...how many drafts in the last 10 years....but for your argument, we will go back ONLY ten years.... thats 70 rounds....how many teams...32...that ten picks out of 2240 total picks/players.....
In HD's defense (and I do agree with him), Salsa, you haven't really offered anything as compelling to bolster your side. All I see is hot air, so far.
In HD's defense (and I do agree with him), Salsa, you haven't really offered anything as compelling to bolster your side. All I see is hot air, so far.
Damn....gotta lead horse to water....OK....again, his sample size is 10 OL. In the last 10 years, there have been approx. 2240 picks in total....10 out of 2240 consist of WHAT percentage? And of those linemen, how many are good linemen and how many are multiple probowlers? Then that narrows it down to how many...? And what would be the percentage of the last 10 drafts would be? Less than HALF of a percent? Maybe a little more?
In the last to drafts, you have the following that are NOT OL that have made multiple Pro Bowlers:
The differing production levels of rookies across positions led me to this question: for players that end up being good, how quickly did they get good?
To get a very quick read on this, I looked at all players whose careers started in 1970 or later and made at least one Pro Bowl in their career. For each such player, I noted the season in which he was named to his first Pro Bowl.
If you look at the ‘rb’ column, for example, you’ll note that 23.2 percent of all running backs who eventually made a Pro Bowl made it in their rookie season, another 24.6 percent made their first Pro Bowl in their second year, and so on.
========== percentage of pro bowlers who made their ======
=========== first pro bowl in the given season ==========
POS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+
===============================================
qb 1.4 23.9 12.7 14.1 9.9 4.2 12.7 4.2 5.6 11.3
rb 23.2 24.6 13.8 13.8 8.0 5.8 2.9 4.3 1.4 2.2
wr 10.8 25.0 20.0 17.5 13.3 5.8 2.5 1.7 1.7 1.7
te 10.4 20.8 16.7 14.6 10.4 6.2 14.6 2.1 2.1 2.1
ol 1.5 9.6 13.3 16.3 10.4 12.6 11.1 8.9 5.2 11.1
dl 2.1 15.0 23.6 12.1 20.0 10.7 7.1 5.0 1.4 2.9
lb 6.5 13.0 17.9 17.9 14.6 8.1 8.9 6.5 2.4 4.1
db 5.1 18.4 16.5 15.2 17.7 10.1 6.3 5.7 2.5 2.5
It is clear that the learning curves do vary quite a bit by position. For obvious reasons, rookie quarterbacks find it much more difficult to excel than rookie running backs do. Wide receivers and tight ends are somewhere in between.
The lack of rookie Pro Bowlers on the offensive line and on defense probably has as much to do with the Pro Bowl selection process as it does with the learning curve. Since there aren’t as many stats to rely on, Pro Bowlers are determined more by reputation at those positions (as I discussed on this other blog before the p-f-r blog was in existence). Hence fewer young players.
Pro-football-reference.com blog » How quickly do Pro Bowlers become Pro Bowlers?
Salsa, I thought this debate was over? Your defense is rather mild. (No pun intended!)
What year a O-Linemen gets recognized to the Pro-Bowl is not necessarily a direct reflection of their success. As you pointed out, there aren't as many stats to rely on and instead O-Line Pro Bowlers are determined by reputation after they're in the league for a bit.
Again, take any year. Compile a list of the top 10 in any given position. Then find out which round they were drafted in. The results will show that the top O-Linemen come from the first round. Thus debunking your theory of thinking it's "stupid to draft O-Lineman in the first round". If you were a GM, you'd be the Isiah Thomas of Football.
What year a O-Linemen gets recognized to the Pro-Bowl is not necessarily a direct reflection of their success. As you pointed out, there aren't as many stats to rely on and instead O-Line Pro Bowlers are determined by reputation after they're in the league for a bit.
Again, take any year. Compile a list of the top 10 in any given position. Then find out which round they were drafted in. The results will show that the top O-Linemen come from the first round. Thus debunking your theory of thinking it's "stupid to draft O-Lineman in the first round". If you were a GM, you'd be the Isiah Thomas of Football.
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Salsa, I thought this debate was over? Your defense is rather mild. (No pun intended!)
What year a O-Linemen gets recognized to the Pro-Bowl is not necessarily a direct reflection of their success. As you pointed out, there aren't as many stats to rely on and instead O-Line Pro Bowlers are determined by reputation after they're in the league for a bit.
Again, take any year. Compile a list of the top 10 in any given position. Then find out which round they were drafted in. The results will show that the top O-Linemen come from the first round. Thus debunking your theory of thinking it's "stupid to draft O-Lineman in the first round". If you were a GM, you'd be the Isiah Thomas of Football.
I guess you have an issues with numbers...you gave me 10...I gave you 10 years and 2240 pics....you sample size equals LESS than 1%. YOU do the math.....
I guess you have an issues with numbers...you gave me 10...I gave you 10 years and 2240 pics....you sample size equals LESS than 1%. YOU do the math.....
Why are you talking about all 7 rounds in the last 10 years!? We've already determined that all of the GOOD Offensive Linemen are taken in the First Round! The scrubs that are picked after that just don't contribute to this argument.
salsadancer7;1339314[B said:]I guess you have an issues with numbers[/B]...you gave me 10...I gave you 10 years and 2240 pics....you sample size equals LESS than 1%. YOU do the math.....
The number at issue was Round # 1.
Yes, but you know it's coming, the league would not have let the trade go thru if they were not going to let him back in.
Jimbo
Dallas has a clause in the contract that if PacBoy doesn't get reinstated, they get compensated a draft pick. So, in essence, him not being re-instated is a non-issue for either party.
