No Signal

[Eduardito]

I tried to hold off from asking for help as much as I could and Iceberg has been giving a lot of great help thru PM, but I am lost. I am writting this to post these pictures.

I am not getting signal.
Aiming at 30W Hispasat 1C/1D.
I'm at 00927, Puerto Rico
Elevation: 43.8°
Azimuth (magn.): 126.3°
LNB Skew : -60.5°

Xtreme II Digital Ku band Signal LNBF
Universal FTA Receiver Microyal MRX-1000
Biggest Directv Dish (i think almost 40 inches)

LNB Freq: 10750
LNB Type: Normal
Transponder Frequency: 11884

My main concern is that the antenna might be too low or that that palm tree is on the way:

 

[Mikey11]

dont worry about the tree....you are aiming way over it with an elevation angle of 43 degrees....looking at how the dish is positioned now it does not look high enough to be aimed at 43 degrees (even with the offset)

 

[hd fan]

I think the plam tree is in the way. your elevation is close to 45 degrees and that means (applying the isosceles triangles principle) that the height of the plam tree should be lower than its distance from the dish (an isosceles triangle has 2 equal lenght sides and since its internal angles has to add up 180 and one of them is 90 degrees then the other two are 45 degrees). I can not estimate the distance of the tree neither its height from the pictures but you can so it will give you an idea , also dishpointer.com allows you to exactly calculate the height of an object in the way to block signal. Try relocating the dish temporarily to ground to another location until you find the bird.

Also very important your LNB skew should be -60 and I do not see your LNB is properly skew , it seems you have not skewed it at all! (I see the F coaxial connector pointing straigh down , that is 0 skew). the connector should point sideways , almost horizontally.

I see no other problems with your setup.

 

[thebaggins]

Do you have another LNB to try, the only reason I ask is that I bought one those once and the LO was off by about 350 Hz high so to get quality I either had to add 350 to the info from "The List" or lower the LO in the receiver by 350 to 10400. It doesn't look like the palm tree is in the way but you could make check your LOS with a yard stick, protractor, and a piece of string with a weight on it.

 

[Mr Tony]

Couple notes on it

-The LNB while skewed properly (I see you found the edge I was talking about where 0 skew is) it looks like you might have it turned too far. I would turn it back about 1/2 way towards where the 20 is
-I cant see what the elevation is set to but I agree with mikey that it looks too low
-settings on receiver are right
-I would just try it again...slowly move the dish left and right until the quality bar turns yellow. Best to take the receiver and a little TV with you up there

The one drawback of the Microyal is the quality meter isnt the best....once it finds a signal it locks at 98 yellow whereas other receivers have a little better meter on it. But it will still work.

 

[Eduardito]

It's just my luck that that LNB has a weird 0, it's on the side where I put the green line and not dead center. it has an arrow on it.

 

[freezy]

compass isn't going to work sitting steel. get a decent map compass at the local mass merchant for about $8


stand behind the dish and locate a point beyond the dish for the azimuth you want and consider magnetic declination. Then point the dish at that.




A short cut to getting elevation close, is put a directv or dish network lnb on your fta dish and aim at a nearby satellite with circular polarization. If the satellite you ultimately want has both vertical and circular polarization ....even better. Ku band setting in you receiver 10750 for linear, 11200 for circular

 

[Mikey11]

I think the plam tree is in the way. your elevation is close to 45 degrees and that means (applying the isosceles triangles principle) that the height of the plam tree should be lower than its distance from the dish

you are not taking into account the offset of the dish....if the dish elevation is 43 degrees that means the signal is coming in at about 63-67 degrees....

 

[Mr Tony]

freezy
The issue is he wants 30W which has no DBS satellite near it

 

[Eduardito]

Better pics of the elevation and skew.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Eduardito,

I looked up the installation details and came up with the following results (of which all match your own data).

San Juan, Puerto Rico
LAT 18° 27' 58" N
LONG 66° 06' 21" W

Satellite 30.0°W Hispasat
TP 11.884 V SR 27500

True Azimuth 113.5°
Mag Azimuth (add 12° 49') 126.3°

Dish Elevation 43.76°

LNB type NORMAL (standard linear)
L.O. Freq 10750
LNB polarization -60.5°

EIRP 47 dBw
Recommended dish size 75 cm / 29.5"

Here are some other TPs you can test for:

11972 H SR 27500 FEC 5/6
12052 V SR 27500 FEC 3/4
12132 H SR 27500 FEC 3/4
12158 V SR 2348 FEC 3/4
12172 H SR 27500 FEC 3/4

Everything regarding setup data is accurate and your dish size is well above minimum required.
I see that you are reading signal strength, which appears to be at least 80% (I can only see the '8' in the pix). That is a good indication that your LNB is operational and your cabling is good.

When you set the LNB polarity, did you go CW or CCW to 60.5°? I believe this should be CW when standing in front of the dish.
When the satellite is to your east, the top of the LNB should be rotated to the east.

So either the signal LOS is blocked or you just haven't hit the "sweet spot" with the alignment yet.

As for LOS, the best time to check this is during the spring and fall (March and October I think). But you can still get a rough idea other times of the year. Google for a SUN OUTAGE CALCULATOR. This may help you identify if the tree is in your LOS. For a few day window in the spring and fall, the sun's track will be in line with the satellite arc and so you can visually see exactly where each satellite is in the sky by checking the sun's position at a specific time of day.

The track of the sun at this time of year will be below the actual satellite arc, so that should help. Watch the sun in the morning as it rises, if it passes just near the top or completely over the top of the tree, then the satellite must definitely be above the top of the tree and there will be no LOS trouble for you. If, however, the sun passes under the canopy of the tree, I would be concerned and try to check it more extensively. I am betting that there is not a problem with the tree for your LOS.

If your LOS is confirmed to be clear, then it must be just a matter of finding the "sweet spot" in your alignment. Start with your initial setting for dish elevation (43.8°) and pan the dish azimuth east and west slowly. If no signal pops in, readjust your dish elevation by about one degree (either up or down) and repeat the panning. Continue this until you cover the sky E-W in azimuth and using dish elevation from ~38° to ~49°. Be very patient and make very small adjustments, pause and wait a few seconds before moving the azimuth again. This allows time for the receiver to lock onto any signal.

EDIT: I should clarify my statement regarding "covering the sky" in the azimuth angle. I hope it was obvious to everyone that it is NOT neccessary to cover the entire horizon from east to west. You have a good idea of where the satellite is, within reason. There is no sense in panning the dish beyond that specific "window" in the sky for any specific satellite. If you have a good reading from your compass for the Magnetic azimuth position of the sat, there is no reason to go much beyond +/- 10 degrees from there. The sat has to be within that window, somewhere.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

Eduardito,

After looking at your close-up new pix I think your dish elevation is not set correctly. You have it set near ~33.5° and I think it should be at 43.8°. EDIT: Or is that just where you left it after trying to go up and down with the adjustment?

The LNB polarization is also hard to judge. They didn't make that one very handy to read, did they. If that raised rib on the LNB is truly the zero degree mark, that is a strange animal in my way of thinking. If you set it to zero degree polarization, then the cable would be sticking out the side and not straight down. Wouldn't it? That's odd.

RADAR

 

[freezy]

looks like skew may be difficult to set....-60.5

wouldn't this be correct?

 

[AcWxRadar]

I would just try it again...slowly move the dish left and right until the quality bar turns yellow. "Best to take the receiver and a little TV with you up there."

The one drawback of the Microyal is the quality meter isnt the best....once it finds a signal it locks at 98 yellow whereas other receivers have a little better meter on it. But it will still work.

This is definitely the best method! Then you can get immediate feedback from the receiver regarding your adjustments. If you truly cannot do this (TV and receiver on the roof) then at least use one of those cheap, in line, analog sat signal meters. You really need something up at the dish installation site that provides signal feedback information while you are making adjustments.

RADAR

 

[hd fan]

ok I get it about the 0 skew being off on that LNB. now your las tpicture shows that the dish is aiming at almost only 34 degrees , it is too low , you need to set it at almost 44 , 10 degrees higher.

 

[hd fan]

you are not taking into account the offset of the dish....if the dish elevation is 43 degrees that means the signal is coming in at about 63-67 degrees....

Dish offset is irrelevant since the signal is coming in at the same angle no matter who is standing at a particular spot on earth , either you , me , a lion , a prime dish , an offset dish , you name it , lol, it will always come down at close 44 degrees for the OP location. Off course if it is an offset dish then it will seem to look down into earth but if it is prime focus it acctually seems to look at 44 degrees. Usually the scale on the dish takes into account its offset value so its easier for the installer to set the elevation properly.

 

[Eduardito]

ok I get it about the 0 skew being off on that LNB. now your las tpicture shows that the dish is aiming at almost only 34 degrees , it is too low , you need to set it at almost 44 , 10 degrees higher.

That's actually where it ended up after fiddling with it, It's bolted down at almost 44 now.

 

[Mikey11]

Dish offset is irrelevant since the signal is coming in at the same angle no matter who is standing at a particular spot on earth , either you , me , a lion , a prime dish , an offset dish , you name it , lol, it will always come down at close 44 degrees for the OP location. Off course if it is an offset dish then it will seem to look down into earth but if it is prime focus it acctually seems to look at 44 degrees. Usually the scale on the dish takes into account its offset value so its easier for the installer to set the elevation properly.

sorry but you are incorrect....his dish elevation is 43 degrees....that means the signal is coming in at an angle of 43 + the dish offset angle....normal dish offset would be around 22 degrees....so the signal angle for him would be about 65 degrees....

that is why prime focus dishes always appear to be aimed higher....because there is no offset....

 

[Eduardito]

I have been trying all the great tips here but still not luck. The most dishearting thing is that even going left to right and up and down I still don't get off the 0 on the quality meter. The LNB is brand new but I might get another one tomorrow, same with the box.

 

[hd fan]

to add to ACRadio comments about using the sun to know where the sat is , you can also use the moon since sometimes it also matches the spot of the sat but unfortunaelly it is of no help for the OP location at least in the next 2 weeks for hispasat. this website provides calculation http://www.calsky.com/cs.cgi . you could also use other planets, stars and constellations as reference but for that the weather has to be clear at night.