PBS NRT Feed?

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emuman100

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Dec 15, 2007
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Pennsylvania
PBS went with a vendor for the file transmission part of their system. Right now they are doing testing (beta testing a few stations, I think, from their schedule) and was wondering if anyone found the transponder. I'd like to try to see if I can come up with something for the file reception. The info is not on their website, so I'm guessing they don't want people receiving the files.

Thanks.

Jonathan
 
I'm sure it will be on AMC 21.
PBS has four transponders: 21, 22, 23 and 24.
I checked their signals on 22, 23 and 24 and could find no data feeds.
Transponder 21 is currently empty.
According to their website the NRT satellite feeds will be DVB-S2.
Latest News
 
There will probably be copyright issues involved with allowing the original files to be received (as files) by anyone other than PBS. For that reason, the data may be encrypted.
 
I'm sure it will be on AMC 21.
PBS has four transponders: 21, 22, 23 and 24.
I checked their signals on 22, 23 and 24 and could find no data feeds.
Transponder 21 is currently empty.
According to their website the NRT satellite feeds will be DVB-S2.
Latest News

I don't think there is any necessity that it would be on one of those 4 transponders while testing, even if T21 will be the final location.
Each time I look for a new transponder popping up, I see two strong signals just below the Montanna signal, but I cannot lock either of them with either DVB-S or DVB-S2 mode. They've been there for a long time. I think I corresponded with someone who was able to lock at least one of these transponders, but I can't remember what I was told, and I can't figure out why I can't seem to lock these signals, and I'm also curious whether these might be testing for the IP data.
Anyway, a scan of AMC21V is at AMC21V .
I'm just curious whether other people are able to lock these transponders.
 
Maybe the transponder is not active now? I could never lock onto any DVB-S2, my Sadoun KUL1 isn't the greatest. I have an Invacom Quad on order. I'm hoping I can lock on LPB, then eventually lock the IP data.
 
Maybe the transponder is not active now? I could never lock onto any DVB-S2, my Sadoun KUL1 isn't the greatest. I have an Invacom Quad on order. I'm hoping I can lock on LPB, then eventually lock the IP data.
Speaking of LPB, I've never gotten much more than occasionally extremely broken up video from that up until a couple weeks ago. Suddenly, it's just about watchable, ie only occasional breakups.... that is until yesterday when a rain storm came through. But it seems like either my dish (mounted on a log) has shifted a bit, or the transponder has gotten a bit stronger.
 
Maybe the transponder is not active now? I could never lock onto any DVB-S2, my Sadoun KUL1 isn't the greatest. I have an Invacom Quad on order. I'm hoping I can lock on LPB, then eventually lock the IP data.

Let me know if you notice a difference with the Invacom. The KUL1 is a good performance LNBF.
 
I have KUL-2's on all my dish setups (2 motorized and 2 fixed) and they work great. The one on my 76cm dish has been up there a good 3 years now (and shows the fade signs to prove it) :)
 
Maybe the beta is being done with terrestrial network communication.

There will probably be copyright issues involved with allowing the original files to be received (as files) by anyone other than PBS. For that reason, the data may be encrypted.

Isn't the content currently available in the clear copyrighted too?

I don't get the "For that reason, the data may be encrypted." part....

What are you saying?

The supplier's data format is proprietary?

Decoding the encryption would be a DMCA violation?

No comprendo.
 
I think it might be the dish. With the LNB mounting bracket, I could never get it to properly hit the sweet spot. I'll try the Invacom and see if I get better performance or the same. I have a Fortec 90cm I got from Sadoun, and from day 1 I had trouble with it. Seems I could never get it bent right. Seems very flimsy, it's very flexible, and it's very hard to hit the sweet spot. I was thinking of getting a Geosat pro 90cm to replace it. The LNB arm seems more stirdy. The arm on the Fortec is too thin and not rigid enough. If you bump it, the whole thing goes out of whack. I have a hard time getting 12140V to come in strong enough. 12104V and 12180V can come in fine even when 12140V can barely lock. I'm not sure if it's the LNB or the dish. Dish just seems easily bendable and anything not perfect can cause 12140V to drop out and that is what I watch most.

The files will be in .mxf format, a standardized, professional container, and are not encrypted. The transmission can be, but PBS hasn't opted for it because of the extra cost. The files are copyrighted, of course. I do not see personal use as any problem with copyright violation, but there are people who are paid millions to make such silly decisions.
 
Maybe the beta is being done with terrestrial network communication.



Isn't the content currently available in the clear copyrighted too?

I don't get the "For that reason, the data may be encrypted." part....

What are you saying?

The supplier's data format is proprietary?

Decoding the encryption would be a DMCA violation?

No comprendo.

The programs would be in file format, and the encoded files are of programs which are copyrighted. Copyright holders would not want digitally-perfect bit-for-bit copies of their programs being distributed around the 'net, and may demand encryption to prevent that from happening. Not saying that they will, but they might. The copyright police are ramping up their efforts as of late...
 
I think it might be the dish. With the LNB mounting bracket, I could never get it to properly hit the sweet spot. I'll try the Invacom and see if I get better performance or the same. I have a Fortec 90cm I got from Sadoun, and from day 1 I had trouble with it. Seems I could never get it bent right. Seems very flimsy, it's very flexible, and it's very hard to hit the sweet spot. I was thinking of getting a Geosat pro 90cm to replace it. The LNB arm seems more stirdy. The arm on the Fortec is too thin and not rigid enough. If you bump it, the whole thing goes out of whack. I have a hard time getting 12140V to come in strong enough. 12104V and 12180V can come in fine even when 12140V can barely lock. I'm not sure if it's the LNB or the dish. Dish just seems easily bendable and anything not perfect can cause 12140V to drop out and that is what I watch most.

The files will be in .mxf format, a standardized, professional container, and are not encrypted. The transmission can be, but PBS hasn't opted for it because of the extra cost. The files are copyrighted, of course. I do not see personal use as any problem with copyright violation, but there are people who are paid millions to make such silly decisions.

I have a Fortec 90CM which also started out with a KUL1 lnbf. I agree that the Fortec dish is VERY flimsy, and the lnbf arm also is flimsy and is difficult to get the lnbf positioned at the focal point. Before I even installed my dish, I checked the position of the LNBF, and it was about 2 inches away from the actual focal point of the dish, and the only way to get it at the focal point was to BEND the lnbf arm. Rather than doing that, I've just used it as is, and it performs *OK* on most transponders, but there are several, particularly on AMC21, that it just can't get. My old Primestar dish does a MUCH better job than the Fortec dish. My experience is not an isolated event, I've read posts from other people whose Fortec dishes came with lnbf arms that were bent to the extent that the LNBF was about 8" off the focal point, and they couldn't pick up anything until they bent it back to the theoretical position.
Anyway, due to my issues with positioning the LNBF on my Fortec, I finally decided to bend the thing to make it right, however I also wanted to add support for my Invacom lnbf which is a bit heavy for that flimsy lnbf arm. So I carefully measured up from each of the holes drilled in the rim of the dish, and drilled a pair of holes at about 2:30 and 9:30 on the rim of the dish. I then connected a wire to the lnbf holder, and ran the wire through each hole, and first pulled the wire which was closest to where the true focal point on my dish, attempting to pull the lnbf up to the proper point, then, with that done, I pulled the other wire tight, just to make the lnbf position more stable. Of course doing this meant that I had to re-align the dish, but after doing that, I found that I had improved the S/Q performance. I knew that I hadn't bent the lnbf arm enough to correct for the 2" error, so I decided to try to bend the arm even more..... at that point, my wire broke. I am encouraged though that this seemed to help, however I think I am going to have to actually BEND the lnbf arm, and then just stabilize it's position with the wires, rather than trying to use the flimsy dish to bend the flimsy lnbf arm. Hopefully I can get this bending job done before the black flies come out, which unfortunately has already started about a mile from here. No fun to work on a dish when surrounded by black flies.

Now, relative to the KUL1 lnbf. I originally used my Fortec dish with a KUL1 lnbf. This LNBF was quite sensitive, ie high gain, however it was TERRIBLE with respect to frequency accuracy and stability. My KUL1 was off by a couple MHz even at ambient temperatures, and when the temperature got relatively cold in the winter, it was off by as much as 5 MHz. When using a receiver that seeks a lock by varying frequency, as most STBs now seem to do, it usually didn't affect the ability to lock channels, and with it's good gain, it performed well. However when you have narrow transponders near to each other, such as the 4444 SR SCPC PBS transponders, or sats that have multiple 3978SR news feed transponders side by side, the KUL1 had problems with these as the receivers would typically lock on the wrong transponder. Receivers that don't seek very far off the set frequency would often not be able to lock at all on some narrow SR transponders, unless you enter the wrong freqs.

Anyway, I am not at all impressed by either the KUL1 lnbf or the Fortec 90CM dish.

I'm now using an Invacom quad on my Fortec, which as others have mentioned is a bit heavy for the flimsy lnbf arm. The Invacom works a bit better than the KUL1 with respect to frequency stability. It is usually within about 1 MHz of the proper frequency at normal temperatures, and might drift up to 2 MHz at cold temps. On my Primestar, however I use a very inexpensive Extreme III lnbf, which seems to have better frequency stability than the Invacom, and is MUCH lighter. However I use the Invacom on my motorized Fortec because I need the circular DVB capability. It works OK. This is my 2nd Invacom though. My first Invacom started acting up on individual ports, which I corrected by using the spare C and L ports, but then those ports started acting up, so nothing worked. Finally had to buy a new Invacom.
 
The programs would be in file format, and the encoded files are of programs which are copyrighted. Copyright holders would not want digitally-perfect bit-for-bit copies of their programs being distributed around the 'net, and may demand encryption to prevent that from happening. Not saying that they will, but they might. The copyright police are ramping up their efforts as of late...

OK. That makes sense.

But, at the risk of being a pest... What's the difference between that and recording DVB content onto a DVR?

Consider the analogy of ripping CDs into MP3 format. If you transfer CDs to a MP3 player, that's OK. If you distribute those MP3s, MPAA goons will be all over you.

Is the difference the distribution part? If it's for personal use and it's not being distributed, what's the problem?

Maybe the NRT content could be processed to address Tron's arguement. (Adding a digital watermark etc.)
 
Maybe the NRT content could be processed to address Tron's arguement. (Adding a digital watermark etc.)

I believe it'll have a PBS logo and some PBS shorts in the video. It'll be the same thing as what they show on 12140V now, except in an .mxf container format, with mpeg2 HD video and ac3 audio. This will be so stations don't have to record the feeds. So, technically, it's as legal as the dvb feeds are now, except delivered in a .mxf media container, and with the same copyright restrictions as the live feeds have. Plus, PBS programming is not "mainstream", so I doubt it will be pirated.

To give credit where credit is due, the KUL1 worked great for everything except for low symbol rate feeds, such as SCPC feeds from news trucks and PBS SCPC feeds. I could get good quality on the MCPC feeds, but not the SCPC feeds. The quality would be low, but enough to lock, barely producing a stable picture. It has served me well, but I think the main issue is the dish.

In any case, I'm not sure why 12140V is harder to lock than 12180V. Maybe it could be my dish.
 
I think it might be the dish. With the LNB mounting bracket, I could never get it to properly hit the sweet spot. I'll try the Invacom and see if I get better performance or the same.

I'd say it's the dish. I"m very unhappy with the fortec 90cm - not good 2 deg separation (hard to lock DVB-S2 from AMC-21 with the minor bit of G18 seen by the dish, for instance). DVB-S2 no problem when used as a fixed dish as you can dial it right in on both azi and elev.

I got a 120cm during sadoun's sale a few months ago and put an invacom on it and did 3 critical mods to fix the 120cm's significant flaws and performance is night and day better with the 120cm! 120cm has perfect 2 deg sepration and the invacom locks every dvb-s2 signal in the arc wtihout fail!

I put the 90cm on my other motor, same issues with 2 deg spacing and I"m not sure if I'm ever going to work those out. I"m doing mods to the 90cm and hyper-fine tuing the tracking to see if I can fix it. I may end up getting another 120cm for that motor because of the performance.

the 90cm is just good for one satellite fixed dish usage, IMHO as you can dial it in right to a specific satellite with a good signal meter instead of having to live with not-quite 2 deg separation issues while on a motor setup.
 
I am confused,

> It is usually within about 1 MHz of the proper frequency at normal temperatures, and might drift up to 2 MHz at cold temps.

I was always under the impression that electronics are more stable when they are colder.

Is this not the case? If it was a PLL based LNB then using a crystal oven would keep it stable, but with the cheaper LNB's I did not think they are based on PLL.
 
I am confused,

> It is usually within about 1 MHz of the proper frequency at normal temperatures, and might drift up to 2 MHz at cold temps.

I was always under the impression that electronics are more stable when they are colder.

Is this not the case? If it was a PLL based LNB then using a crystal oven would keep it stable, but with the cheaper LNB's I did not think they are based on PLL.

I don't think that the drift at colder temperatures mentioned is because the lnbs are less stable when cold, it's because any electronics are less stable when the temperature changes. The same thing would happen if it got hot.
I think that whether it is PLL or DRO or whatever technology, the crystal oven idea would help stability, but is expensive. Most of the consumer LNBs and lnbfs we buy are designed to work at relatively ambient temperatures, and are rated over a very narrow temperature range. Most would be fairly stable if their temperature was kept constant, but when you take something that's designed to run at 70 deg F, and lower the temp to well below freezing, you can't expect the same stability.
 
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