Pictures of my Dish setup. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

[GMFreak8]

Before I say anything, these are not the best pictures. My battery was dying, and a storm was essentially developing right on top of me (thundering like crazy right now). The dish and motor are set to the exact settings that I've been told to set them to by people here and by the calculators that I've used. The pole and everything is completely level. The dish and motor are aligned from all indications. Yet I still can't get a decent signal. When I do get one, it involves cranking the dish elevation way up to 40, and rocking the dish back and forth until I can lock onto the signal. Even when I do get a signal on my true south satellite, it's only 60% at max, and when I track the arc, I completely lose the other satellites, or pull in a weak signal. Maybe you guys can tell me something from looking at the pictures. Maybe it's something really obvious that I'm missing.

Anyway, here's the pictures (ignore the ugly paint job, it's a work in progress):

 

[mr.crane]

hummm, your dish pole looks like it is off.

 

[GMFreak8]

hummm, your dish pole looks like it is off.

I put a level on it on all sides, and it read level though. Am I doing that wrong?

I just went out and checked again. Everything seems to be right on. I just cant understand this.

 

[linuxman]

I would put a string with a nut tied onto the bottom and something at the top to set on the pole top. Make sure the string is almost all the way to the ground, and far enough from the mast to not be obstructed. If it is not perfect with the string it isn't plumb.

Second, the LNBF seems to be pointed just slightly to the Left (West) if facing the dish. That might be a support arm adjustment.

Other than that, it looks ok.

Fred

 

[GMFreak8]

I would put a string with a nut tied onto the bottom and something at the top to set on the pole top. Make sure the string is almost all the way to the ground, and far enough from the mast to not be obstructed. If it is not perfect with the string it isn't plumb.

Second, the LNBF seems to be pointed just slightly to the Left (West) if facing the dish. That might be a support arm adjustment.

Other than that, it looks ok.

Fred

I noticed that the LNBF looked off. I'll have to play around with that a little bit. I'll try the string and nut technique and see. I hope it is plum, and that maybe the support arm is off. Would that be the reason why if I raise the dish elevation to like 40, that I'm able to receive ONN on SBS6?

 

[linuxman]

I discovered the hard way the first time I set up a motorized Ku dish that sometimes the signal will come in at more than one elevation.

After playing with that one a week or so, I started over from scratch. Took everything apart including the motor and put it all back together again. I found that a different elevation brought in a much better signal quality.

You'll get there. It takes a lot of patience and tenacity.

Fred

 

[GMFreak8]

I discovered the hard way the first time I set up a motorized Ku dish that sometimes the signal will come in at more than one elevation.

After playing with that one a week or so, I started over from scratch. Took everything apart including the motor and put it all back together again. I found that a different elevation brought in a much better signal quality.

You'll get there. It takes a lot of patience and tenacity.

Fred

I was thinking about starting over from scratch. I might just end up doing that. That is if I ever get a day that it's not raining out.

 

[Wescopc]

In your manual for the sg2100 (the one that came with the motor) about page 3 or 4 it should give you a formula for the angle of the dish elevation. Something like 30° (40°) - declination (6.7° for Adirondacks) = dish elevation. If you are using 30° and it should be 40° that would explain why you have to raise the dish to a different level. I tried to measure your shaft angle (30 or 40°) from your pictures and I am uncertain which it is. SG2100's used to be 40° but now the new ones are 30°.
What elevation or latitude setting are you using on the motor (I can't tell from your picture). If you have latitude markings then set them to your latitude 43.7°.
I think you are set about right from the picture. Also what is the elevation setting of the dish - I can't read that scale in the picture either.
Bob

 

[GMFreak8]

In your manual for the sg2100 (the one that came with the motor) about page 3 or 4 it should give you a formula for the angle of the dish elevation. Something like 30° (40°) - declination (6.7° for Adirondacks) = dish elevation. If you are using 30° and it should be 40° that would explain why you have to raise the dish to a different level. I tried to measure your shaft angle (30 or 40°) from your pictures and I am uncertain which it is. SG2100's used to be 40° but now the new ones are 30°.
What elevation or latitude setting are you using on the motor (I can't tell from your picture). If you have latitude markings then set them to your latitude 43.7°.
I think you are set about right from the picture. Also what is the elevation setting of the dish - I can't read that scale in the picture either.
Bob

Yup, I made sure to look at that chart and do exactly what it says. I have the motor set for 43.7 ( or as close as I can get to it, scale isn't that accurate, it's more like a tad below 45), and I have the dish elevation set to (30 - 6.7) 23.3 (again, as close as I can get to it). I heard the scales on the fortec dishes were off a little bit though. Does anyone know anything about that?

 

[Wescopc]

The most I have heard of the dish elevation markings being off is +/- 10° or so. 15-20° seems extreme. Maybe some one else has experience with the Fortec dishes could help here. When you are receiving SBS 6 - does your USALS on the receiver show SBS 6? In other words do you motor to SBS 6 prior to finding it in the sky? Some times folks will find a TS Satellite with out first turning the motor to it with the receiver. When that happens, they can't find the rest of the satellites in the Clarke Belt. One last thing, make sure you are looking at latitude settings for the motor NOT the elevation settings.
Bob

 

[GMFreak8]

I'm surprised that the markings could be off even that much really.

Yes, the USALS setup screen shows SBS6. You might have hit something though on the motor being moved to the position of SBS6. I haven't been letting the motor go to the position where it's supposed to be all the time, while tweaking the dish. I was under the impression that you should move the whole motor and dish unit as one to find your true south satellite, without moving the motor from the zero position. You're saying that before I find my true south satellite, I should always tell the receiver to move the motor to my true south satellite? What difference would that make? Does it set the skew and everything correctly? I've let it move to the position of SBS6 before, and I didn't notice any difference at all. In fact, I didn't even really notice the dish moving at all. I've been letting it move to the position sometimes, and other times I just tell it to sit at the zero position. Both times I haven't really noticed a difference, but I suppose the farther east or west you go the more that would make a difference? Hope that made sense.

I have been looking at the latitude settings for the motor, instead of the elevation, and I've made sure to use my latitude and not my longitude also. I did that once, I haven't done it again.


I appreciate the tips. Hopefully maybe it's just been me not letting the receiver and motor move the dish to the position of SBS6 before making adjustments.

One last thing that I forgot to ask. Is it normal for there to be a little play in the motor arm? Mine seems to move back and forth somewhat.

The most I have heard of the dish elevation markings being off is +/- 10° or so. 15-20° seems extreme. Maybe some one else has experience with the Fortec dishes could help here. When you are receiving SBS 6 - does your USALS on the receiver show SBS 6? In other words do you motor to SBS 6 prior to finding it in the sky? Some times folks will find a TS Satellite with out first turning the motor to it with the receiver. When that happens, they can't find the rest of the satellites in the Clarke Belt. One last thing, make sure you are looking at latitude settings for the motor NOT the elevation settings.
Bob

 

[voomvoom]

To give an idea of what he's talking about, I happen to be at 83.9w, if I use AMC9 at 83.0w for my TS satellite, I would first let the receiver use the USALS and move the dish to AMC9, then I would fine tune the dish for AMC9 while it's pointed at AMC9. I would not fine tune the dish to AMC9 while in "0" position under any circumstances, because then the motor would not be pointing to True South, it would be pointing to AMC9. It then would not track correctly across the arc. If you allow the receiver to move to the position of your TS satellite, and then fine tune it to pick it up, then if you go back to "0", the motor should be pointed to True South and not to your TS satellite. Now it is possible for your TS satellite to actually be True South of you, but most people don't fall under those circumstances, they're just not that lucky. The bottom line is, the motor has to be pointed True South, regardless of where your TS satellite is located. I could have used AMC9 @ 83.0w or AMC2 @ 85.0w for my TS satellite, my location is about half way between the 2 of them, but I actually used AMC3 @ 87.0w, because it had several TP's to choose from, to make it easier to find. I used the USALS and moved to AMC3 and then tuned it in. Good Luck on finding your sweet spot!

Al

 

[GMFreak8]

Hang with me. Just to clarify.


If I go out tomorrow, I should first reset the receiver, then enter in my latitude and longitude, set my correct LNBF settings, pick SBS6 out of the satellite list, find an active transponder (which seems to be hard for SBS6 right now), go into the USALS menu, let it motor to the position of SBS6, fine tune after that for SBS6, and then reset it back to zero, which should disrupt my tuned signal for SBS6? My true south satellite is at 193.2 degrees on the compass (74 degreeswest) according to geosatfinder. Where would the motor at the zero position be pointing to be at true south? I was under the impression that even at the zero position, I should be pointed at 193.2 degrees on the compass.

MALONE, NY 12953
United States

Latitude: 44.837 N
Longitude: 74.257 W

Using those coordinates, how would I go about pointing my motor and dish in the direction of true south using a compass, so it would need to move to be pointing at my true south satellite?

Essentially I know that my true south satellite isn't exactly true south now, but I can't understand how I would go about finding out where my real true south is, not just my true south satellite.

I hope you can understand what I'm actually trying to get at here. It's late, but I'm hoping that this may be the problem that I'm running into with tracking the rest of the satellites.

Thanks for helping me out with this, and having the patience to deal with someone who is apparently extremely dense.

Edit: Wow, either I'm tired and just don't know it, or I'm incredibly stupid. But essentially I just take 180 degrees on the compass and add my magnetic devation from it to find the real true south? It should be real close, but not exactly the position of my true south satellite. Am I getting warmer?

To give an idea of what he's talking about, I happen to be at 83.9w, if I use AMC9 at 83.0w for my TS satellite, I would first let the receiver use the USALS and move the dish to AMC9, then I would fine tune the dish for AMC9 while it's pointed at AMC9. I would not fine tune the dish to AMC9 while in "0" position under any circumstances, because then the motor would not be pointing to True South, it would be pointing to AMC9. It then would not track correctly across the arc. If you allow the receiver to move to the position of your TS satellite, and then fine tune it to pick it up, then if you go back to "0", the motor should be pointed to True South and not to your TS satellite. Now it is possible for your TS satellite to actually be True South of you, but most people don't fall under those circumstances, they're just not that lucky. The bottom line is, the motor has to be pointed True South, regardless of where your TS satellite is located. I could have used AMC9 @ 83.0w or AMC2 @ 85.0w for my TS satellite, my location is about half way between the 2 of them, but I actually used AMC3 @ 87.0w, because it had several TP's to choose from, to make it easier to find. I used the USALS and moved to AMC3 and then tuned it in. Good Luck on finding your sweet spot!

Al

 

[GMFreak8]

So, true south is actually 194.45 degrees on the compass and my true south satellite is at 193.20 degrees. If my calculations are correct whiich were derived from going to this site: NOAA's Geophysical Data Center - Geomagnetic Data entering my latitude and longitude to find my magnetic deviation, and then converting them to decimal degrees by using this calculator: Degrees, Minutes, Seconds to decimal Degrees calculator the difference between my actual true south and my true south satellite is 1.25 degrees. How in the heck am I ever going to adjust my dish for that. It's such a small variation, that I can't see how it would make that much of a difference, and give me results that have been any different from those I have been getting in the past?

 

[gabshere]

Well i went back through everything and couldn't see anything wrong the pole does look off but i know you placed a level to it . and that ding but you placed strings on it. actually your second guessing yourself on the arc you had that part correct the first time you set it up. the only thing i haven't asked is from the pictures your lnb the big old QPH-031 is adjusted all the way to the neck. was this location where you received your best signal , have you adjusted that back and forth any to aquire the optimal focal distance.

 

[linuxman]

If I go out tomorrow, I should first reset the receiver, then enter in my latitude and longitude, set my correct LNBF settings, pick SBS6 out of the satellite list, find an active transponder (which seems to be hard for SBS6 right now), go into the USALS menu, let it motor to the position of SBS6, fine tune after that for SBS6, and then reset it back to zero,

Do as Al suggested above.

When you go out this morning, go to zero on the motor, reset your receiver, set up SBS 6 in your USALS, allow the motor to move the dish however much it needs to move, and then find SBS 6 by moving the whole assembly on the pole using a strong TP.

Only then will it track the arc correctly.

Fred

 

[colbec]

I am located just about on your latitude but a couple of degrees further west longitude.

First, to judge from other postings it looks like SBS6 is a bit unreliable right now, there have been some power fluctuations and the bird is scheduled for replacement which may involve moving. So for me AMC5 or 6 is a better choice for a TS Sat.

AMC5 and 6 also have the advantage that there are more strong TPs on it to try to focus on.

I'm a great believer in getting true south perfect before any other adjustments. I use a sighting compass to focus on a distant tree that stands up on the horizon, and then point my motor at that. Once the motor is at true south there is no further adjustment on the pole, however tempting that might be. Reset the motor to zero on true south.

Quote:

... 1.25 degrees. How in the heck am I ever going to adjust my dish for that.

This is where the motor button comes in. With quick taps on the SG2100 button you can make very tiny adjustments. When setting my motor up, a couple of quick taps on the button finds the signal from TS.

If it is any help I have my Fortec 90 pointed at AMC6 right now and the dish elevation from the scale on the mount is 32. The book says it should be 38. Either the dish scale or the book is wrong.

 

[Tron]

When you're setting up using USALS, don't worry about true south. Just set up a satellite (really it can be ANY satellite, but its best to use one close to south of your position) with USALS, select a transponder, and let the receiver motor to that position from '0'. Peak your dish on that bird, and the arc should fall into place. In your case, when your motor is actually at '0', it won't be hitting any satellite at all. This is also true in my case, since my true south satellite is actually at 91w, and my location is 90.1w.

 

[Wescopc]

When you're setting up using USALS, don't worry about true south. Just set up a satellite (really it can be ANY satellite, but its best to use one close to south of your position) with USALS, select a transponder, and let the receiver motor to that position from '0'. Peak your dish on that bird, and the arc should fall into place. In your case, when your motor is actually at '0', it won't be hitting any satellite at all. This is also true in my case, since my true south satellite is actually at 91w, and my location is 90.1w.

Tron is exactly right, when I set up my first motor I had no line of site even near my true south. So I set up on a satellite 22° east of my TS satellite. So just aim the motor towards the south - motor over to a good strong TP/Satellite as close to south as practical - then adjust the dish (not motor) elevation up/down and azimuth east/west (motor clamp on pole) for best signal. Good luck!
Bob

 

[GMFreak8]

Wow, thanks guys for the great tips. I'm gonna go out and try things shortly.

I just have one question. Wouldn't using the button on the motor screw up where the receiver thinks it is?