Please help with antenna selection in rural area.

[JaredG]

Can any of you resident antenna gurus help me out? I need an antenna to pick up the OTA signals at my new house. I primarily want the digital networks (ABC, NBC, FOX) and I would like to get a CBS if possible.
My zipcode is 62568. I live outside of town and have a tree line directly north of me about 60 feet that runs about 1/4 mile to the east.
My problem is that I need to pick up channels in multiple directions and I'm not sure what type of antenna to use. I do not want a rotator.
Below is what I got from antennaweb. What do you guys think? Can I reasonably expect to get what I want?
Thanks.

Jared


Type Chan Net City Compass Miles Freq.
Assign
yel - uhf 55.1 FOX SPRINGFIELD 332° 22.4 44
red - uhf 23.1 WB DECATUR 34° 36.3 22
red - uhf 17.1 NBC DECATUR 36° 37.6 18
blue - uhf 49.1 UPN SPRINGFIELD 324° 23.8 53
blue - uhf 20.1 ABC SPRINGFIELD 330° 19.7 42
blue - uhf 14.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE 279° 42.9 15
blue - vhf 12.1 PBS URBANA 40° 47.6 9
vio - vhf 3 CBS CHAMPAIGN 46° 59.0 3
vio - uhf 31 CBS PEORIA 349° 79.0 31

 

[navychop]

Sorry, but for those distances and directions, you're going to need a rotor. Get the Channel Master one with remote control. Mount everything high on the roof.

You might do well with a CM3671, since you need both VHF & UHF, and the 7777 pre-amp. There is a larger antenna from Wineguard that might be better (I forget the number), but it is only shipped by truck freight, so that makes it pricey. Maybe you can find a large store that carries it in stock- they get stuff by truckload anyway and it may well be cheaper that way.

No matter what, CBS is going to be difficult.

 

[JaredG]

Thanks, navychop. How about if I pared my list down a bit? I knew getting CBS would be a chore, but how about this revised list? Are you still thinking the rotor would be a necessity or would a good antenna aimed for the Decatur channels be able to grab the Springfield channels?

Revised list below....


yel - uhf 55.1 FOX SPRINGFIELD 332° 22.4 miles
red - uhf 23.1 WB DECATUR 34° 36.3 miles
red - uhf 17.1 NBC DECATUR 36° 37.6miles
blue - uhf 20.1 ABC SPRINGFIELD 330° 19.7 miles

 

[charper1]

Look at those headings. I am guessing that an antenna has about a 15-20 degree max beam width (field of view)?

So my take is 330° to 36° is asking a bit much.

 

[navychop]

For just the 4 listed above, you might do well with a CM4228 antenna. But I believe you'll still need the rotor. So you'd might as well stick with my original suggestion and get the VHFs also. For an antenna sensitive enough to pick up signals 20 to 40 miles out, it will be somewhat directional. You've got about a 60 degree spread there, too much for a directional.

You also should check to see what the ERP is on these stations. If they are at low power, you might not be able to pick them up no matter what you do. I'd certainly check Fox first. You'll need their call letters and go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

 

[bhelms]

You have two general directions for your chosen UHF channels about 60 deg. apart. That would be no problem for an omnidirectional antenna, but such an antenna will have a limited range, most likely not good enough for your application. You mention a "good" antenna, which I interpret to mean one designed for longer range. But in general such an antenna is likely to be very directional and will not cover a 60 degree span. That's why navychop recommended a rotator.

Look at the gain patterns for various antennas, which you can often find on their websites. In the case of the 4228 (reputedly one of the best all around UHF antennas) the pattern is focused along its forward direction with symmetrical lobes located at about 60 deg. off-axis. The actual pattern is quite frequency dependent. See the below link for some idea of this: (Altho' this link is all about combining two antennas, you'll get the idea.)

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/16bay.html

So perhaps in your case you could use the 4228 pointed at the two stations at about 35 deg. and 35+ miles (Decatur) for the strongest gain in the direction of those channels, and maybe one of the lobes would give you fair gain in the direction of 330 deg. (Springfield) that might just be enough to receive those channels at about 20+ miles. Maybe a preamp would help.

A trick like that would be the only way I can think that you can use a single antenna with no rotator for channels at some moderate distance from multiple locations. There are many other factors like terrain, obstructions, multipath, etc. that will also come into play and are hard to quantify. You might just luck out, tho'!

If you do try it, please report back...! BRgds...

 

[dougruss]

Wish I could find some Info or hear from someone who has tried one of these Antennas. Looks like it may work for some,that have this problem?

I've posted this on other Forums before,but never a User response?

http://www.skyvision.com/store/mi1500029.html

 

[navychop]

WRSP Fox 335 kW
WBUI WB 253 kW
WAND NBC 350 kW
WICS ABC 950 kW

Frankly, I'm not sure these will be powerful enough to reach you. Maybe. Go to the FCC site above and look at the service contour maps for each station. Consider the maps "optimistic." Can you spot your house? If it's within, preferably well within, the contours, you have hope of reception.

 

[navychop]

dougruss

Googling it yields nada. It certainly hasn't sold well. The only user might be the guy who designed it. Doesn't appear to be able to live up to the claims, to me. And it's an old antenna, an old ad. Channels 2-83? We dropped down to channels 2-69 many, many years ago. Soon we drop down to 2-51.

Don't waste your money or effort.

on edit: corrected channels to 2-51 from 2-53

 

[JaredG]

I checked the contour maps as you suggested and I am within the circle on them. However, I am in the outer 25% of the circle.
I can sporadically pick up Fox and NBC with a little amplified antenna near the tv, but ABC almost never works. I seem to have a better chance at night, but they still drop out enough that I consider them too unreliable.
I still need to take a look at the llink that bhelms posted.
Thanks.
Jared

 

[navychop]

Yes, that might help. However, it is a bit of the arcane arts. It seems to me this antenna & reception bit should be clear, hard science. The years have taught me a greater part of it is art, not science.

 

[Tower Guy]

CBS will be the hardest to get. It looks to me that the terrain is better to KMOV in St. Louis than WTHI in Terre Haute, IN. If you can get St. Louis, all the DTV stations are on UHF and in the same direction, so it solves the rotator dilemma. An extremely aggressive antenna will be needed. This web site has one approach.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/16bay.html

Such an antenna is appropiate only for an experimenter.

Unfortunately, a single antenna aimed at St. Louis probably won't work well for your local Springfield stations.

 

[bhelms]

... It seems to me this antenna & reception bit should be clear, hard science. The years have taught me a greater part of it is art, not science.

Echo that! And add in a good dose of luck, YMMV...!

 

[dodge]

Sorry, but for those distances and directions, you're going to need a rotor. Get the Channel Master one with remote control. Mount everything high on the roof.

You might do well with a CM3671, since you need both VHF & UHF, and the 7777 pre-amp. There is a larger antenna from Wineguard that might be better (I forget the number), but it is only shipped by truck freight, so that makes it pricey. .

The antenna you are refering to is the winegard hd8200p

 

[navychop]

Yep, that's the one!

 

[ralfyguy]

the antennas direct 91xg side to side may work better plus would be less weight and wind load.

experimenting with that antenna this fall.

Rick, since it is above 105F here every day now, and lows around 80 at night, could that be the cause for frequent dropouts at 90 miles distance, because the atmosphere actually really never cools off, even at night? I never had any more problems with reception than now. Checked all the equipment and everything seems ok. What do you think?