Pole Mount Installation Questions

[quarlo]

I had an installation aborted today when the tech insisted my current (ground-anchored, fascia-attached) 20' mast would not support the HD AT9 5-LNB dish. No one at DirecTV had mentioned this possibility to me even though I went over the setup very carefully with the CSR before ordering. I don't believe that the tech was lazy or trying to BS me after reading various sites around the web (something I wish I had done prior to his arrival!). Since this is about the most active and informative place I've been in my online travels ...

I got D* to at least credit me whatever installation fee (at $75/hr) results from the install, but the contractors do want another $100 for a pole in the ground. This is their (D*) equipment, I don't actually want it in my yard, I'm committing to spending $2K with them over the next 2 years, blah, blah, blah. I pushed back hard, but that's as much as they would give. If I had other options, I'd use them, but neighbors with Dish whine incessantly and there is no cable (and never will be) out in the desert where I am.

So (finally) to the point:

Does anyone know where there might be (or who might be willing to provide) specs on an anchored pole mount setup and what's involved (trenching, etc.) to provide them a place for their bloated HD dish? I can't even find the pipe O.D. listed anywhere that this thing requires. Line of sight is no problem and a 6' pole would suffice. I currently have 2 coax cables running into the house from the existing 3-LNB dish - will they really need to add two more for the HD receiver?

Thanks in advance for any help!

FX

 

[grydlok]

I had an installation aborted today when the tech insisted my current (ground-anchored, fascia-attached) 20' mast would not support the HD AT9 5-LNB dish. No one at DirecTV had mentioned this possibility to me even though I went over the setup very carefully with the CSR before ordering. I don't believe that the tech was lazy or trying to BS me after reading various sites around the web (something I wish I had done prior to his arrival!). Since this is about the most active and informative place I've been in my online travels ...

I got D* to at least credit me whatever installation fee (at $75/hr) results from the install, but the contractors do want another $100 for a pole in the ground. This is their (D*) equipment, I don't actually want it in my yard, I'm committing to spending $2K with them over the next 2 years, blah, blah, blah. I pushed back hard, but that's as much as they would give. If I had other options, I'd use them, but neighbors with Dish whine incessantly and there is no cable (and never will be) out in the desert where I am.

So (finally) to the point:

Does anyone know where there might be (or who might be willing to provide) specs on an anchored pole mount setup and what's involved (trenching, etc.) to provide them a place for their bloated HD dish? I can't even find the pipe O.D. listed anywhere that this thing requires. Line of sight is no problem and a 6' pole would suffice. I currently have 2 coax cables running into the house from the existing 3-LNB dish - will they really need to add two more for the HD receiver?

Thanks in advance for any help!

FX

Go to a fence store and buy an 2"OD pole.
Go to Home depot and rent a trencher for 50 dollars.
Install the pole. Run a trench to the house.
Call D* back.

 

[1OldMan]

Allied Tube and Conduit's SS-40 pipe is possibly the most specified pipe in the chain link fencing industry. The strength and OD of the SS-40 2.0" diameter pipe (1.90") is perfectly suited for this application, and it's relatively easy to obtain from most fencing contractors. Specifications are listed in the link above.

Allied T&C also manufactures Gatorshield GatorPost pipe, widely used by satellite dish installers, but this pipe is more difficult for consumers to locate. Specifications are virtually identical between the two brands.

 

[quarlo]

Thanks!

Thanks for the great info, guys - I *really* appreciate it! I was just looking at a location behind the house as opposed to the front yard. This would be to avoid trenching in the shattered granite and caliche that passes for "soil" around here. Any idea how much perimeter clearance would be needed around (specifically to the rear of) the dish, e.g. between the centerline of the pole mount and the house. I'm at [SIZE=-1]31 deg 47.356’ N so the dish will be at 51.3 degrees elevation according to D*.

I haven't seen these dishes up close and personal and cannot find any accurate dimensions, either. Since this will be a trivial distance in comparison to what hangs off the front of the pole, I am guessing 18" would be more than enough?

I had so little trouble with my previous installations and just wasn't prepared for this thing to be such a relative monster of a dish. A little due diligence on my part [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]is in order [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]next time. Almost ready to just buy the "parts" and do the whole thing myself.

Thanks again - I knew I came to the right place!

FX
[/SIZE]

 

[iwc5893]

The dish is approx. 33 inches in diameter with a height of approx. 24 inches. Depending upon the azimuth to the 101 sat from your location, you may need 18-24 inches in any direction.

 

[Claude Greiner]

$100 Is crazy for a pole mount. Its not the fact it costs $100, but the fact they are too lazy to do it and want you to cancel the installation.

Any dealer or installer who truely wants your business, should install a pole mount for FREE.

The only time there should be a charge is when the Dish can be mounted on the house and the customer specifically requests a pole mount.

But if it was me, I would mount the pole myselfe and have a ditch trenched from the Dish to the house!

 

[Mike500]

Allied Tube and Conduit's SS-40 pipe is possibly the most specified pipe in the chain link fencing industry. The strength and OD of the SS-40 2.0" diameter pipe (1.90") is perfectly suited for this application, and it's relatively easy to obtain from most fencing contractors. Specifications are listed in the link above.

Allied T&C also manufactures Gatorshield GatorPost pipe, widely used by satellite dish installers, but this pipe is more difficult for consumers to locate. Specifications are virtually identical between the two brands.

1.91 inches or the actual diameter of 1-1/2 inch pipe may be too small for some mast clamp mounts. I've attempted to do this before and had the bolts run completely down, and the mount is still loose on the pole and turns.

 

[Jimbo]

1.91 inches or the actual diameter of 1-1/2 inch pipe may be too small for some mast clamp mounts. I've attempted to do this before and had the bolts run completely down, and the mount is still loose on the pole and turns.

I would definatly go with a 2" post actually mine is 1 7/8ths and that is slightly loose, I them drilled a hole in the pipe and placed a zip screw in it.
Works great and has never given me any trouble.

jimbo

 

[quarlo]

$100 Is crazy for a pole mount. Its not the fact it costs $100, but the fact they are too lazy to do it and want you to cancel the installation.

Any dealer or installer who truely wants your business, should install a pole mount for FREE.

Well, I could not agree with you more! The more I research this and think about it, the more POed I get. It appears that this is a local installer and\or contractor problem and that D* does not have tight control over what gets done or for how much and that there is a great deal of variability by geography. For a company asking me to commit to spending over $2K with them over a two year period, I think this is pretty pathetic.

One thing I still cannot determine for certain is the number of coax cables from the 5-LNB dish to the HR-20\21 receiver. My buddy claims 2, but I have seen installation guides that show four(??).

I am thinking more and more that a trip to Home Despot is in my immediate future.

FX

 

[quarlo]

The dish is approx. 33 inches in diameter with a height of approx. 24 inches. Depending upon the azimuth to the 101 sat from your location, you may need 18-24 inches in any direction.

Azimuth here is just shy of 150 degrees. With an elevation of 51.3, I can't see having a problem at 18" from pole center to house. I have a sidewalk to deal with that I'll demo if I have to, but just thinking about that much work is making me dizzy(er). I'll have do some more careful reckoning come daylight. Thanks for the info!

FX

 

[randyk47]

There are 4 lines running from the 5LNB. To be fully functional an HR20/HR21 will use two of the lines. That permits options like recording more than one show at a time or watching one show while recording another. The other two lines can be run to other receivers. In my case I'm presently using an HR20, H20 and H10. Those 3 units take up all of the four leads from the dish. I doubt I'll be adding any additional receivers as there just my wife and I but if I do then there's a way to feed the four lines from the dish into a multiswitch for even more outputs.

 

[raoul5788]

Can you post a picture of your current install?

 

[quarlo]

Can you post a picture of your current install?

Sure. The 25' telescoping mast was installed to give me LOS to the Sprint BB tower which is 30 miles due west from me. That's the white square at the top of the pole. The 3-LNB dish sits approx. 2' off the roof line. There are no LOS problems to the south whatsoever (other than the house itself).

Unaware that the new HD dish is so much larger and heavier than its predecessors (my bad), I figured it would sit about where its little brother had happily been (albeit a little closer to the roof line for more stability). Looking at the mast now and knowing the weight of the thing, I can see that the current mount is inadequate with only one 3" lag screw into a rafter tail and the other into blocking I added behind the fascia.

With the geometry of that corner in addition to the gutter, I also don't think the DishMount mounts would have enough room for the struts/braces/"monpoles" that they require. It's a 28-year old stucco-on-plywood, 2x6 frame home and I don't know if that would provide the anchoring needed for what appears to be a fairly massive support arm on those mounts, either. The winds here are intense as the house sits on a 300' ridge at the north side of the valley with 15-80 miles of open space from east southeast to north. The mast location is sheltered by the roof from the prevailing SE winds which is another reason I like it.

Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but this is getting to be a pain in my *** and I want to get it right. Many thanks again to all!

FX

 

[Jimbo]

Sure. The 25' telescoping mast was installed to give me LOS to the Sprint BB tower which is 30 miles due west from me. That's the white square at the top of the pole. The 3-LNB dish sits approx. 2' off the roof line. There are no LOS problems to the south whatsoever (other than the house itself).

Unaware that the new HD dish is so much larger and heavier than its predecessors (my bad), I figured it would sit about where its little brother had happily been (albeit a little closer to the roof line for more stability). Looking at the mast now and knowing the weight of the thing, I can see that the current mount is inadequate with only one 3" lag screw into a rafter tail and the other into blocking I added behind the fascia.

With the geometry of that corner in addition to the gutter, I also don't think the DishMount mounts would have enough room for the struts/braces/"monpoles" that they require. It's a 28-year old stucco-on-plywood, 2x6 frame home and I don't know if that would provide the anchoring needed for what appears to be a fairly massive support arm on those mounts, either. The winds here are intense as the house sits on a 300' ridge at the north side of the valley with 15-80 miles of open space from east southeast to north. The mast location is sheltered by the roof from the prevailing SE winds which is another reason I like it.

Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but this is getting to be a pain in my *** and I want to get it right. Many thanks again to all!

FX

Are you sure that you cannot get a 5 LNB dish set up on the side if the house, it would be more stable if anchored correctly, which really should not be a problem.

Jimbo

 

[quarlo]

Are you sure that you cannot get a 5 LNB dish set up on the side if the house, it would be more stable if anchored correctly, which rwally shoiuld not be a problem. Jimbo

Not in any way that I can fathom. I have to agree with the (angry, surly, unhelpful) tech here - just no decent mounting point or support on the west side of the house. If it can't go on the north face (where the current mast is located) then I am stuck with a pole mount, it seems. Unless I want that pole mount in the front (north) yard, I am going to have to deal with the often-severe SE winds somehow. I am replacing the composite roofing with steel shortly since houses in this area shed roof shingles like dead skin cells so that is out for mounting.

Unless you are familiar with SE AZ "soils" you cannot fathom how difficult trenching is going to be. It's caliche (rock-hard limestone deposits) interspersed with shattered granite (stones to boulders) and a little sand. Last time I dug to anymore than a foot required 8 hours with a jackhammer.

I guess I could poke a bunch of holes into the stucco/plywood and try to find studs, but the expanded metal mesh anchoring the stucco makes that extremely hit or miss in my experience and I still don't think I'd have the mounting strength needed for this monster.

Does anyone know how far down they trench for pole mount installations? I assume they use PVC conduit (although the installations seem to vary widely by geography)? Thanks!

FX

 

[raoul5788]

Not in any way that I can fathom. I have to agree with the (angry, surly, unhelpful) tech here - just no decent mounting point or support on the west side of the house. If it can't go on the north face (where the current mast is located) then I am stuck with a pole mount, it seems. Unless I want that pole mount in the front (north) yard, I am going to have to deal with the often-severe SE winds somehow. I am replacing the composite roofing with steel shortly since houses in this area shed roof shingles like dead skin cells so that is out for mounting.

Unless you are familiar with SE AZ "soils" you cannot fathom how difficult trenching is going to be. It's caliche (rock-hard limestone deposits) interspersed with shattered granite (stones to boulders) and a little sand. Last time I dug to anymore than a foot required 8 hours with a jackhammer.

I guess I could poke a bunch of holes into the stucco/plywood and try to find studs, but the expanded metal mesh anchoring the stucco makes that extremely hit or miss in my experience and I still don't think I'd have the mounting strength needed for this monster.

Does anyone know how far down they trench for pole mount installations? I assume they use PVC conduit (although the installations seem to vary widely by geography)? Thanks!

FX

The pole is galvanized steel. Can't you mount a 5 lnb the same way your 3 lnb dish is, just a little lower to be able to attach the monopoles? I would definitely secure the pole to the fascia much better than it is now. What is underneath the fascia board?

 

[Jimbo]

I went about 30" on my pole depth, and mine like your is above the roof line.
Difference being, mine is on a 1 story home, my pole is 16' - 30" in the ground with a bolt thru the bottom of it, make sure to do this before you concrete this will keep it from ever turning.
The pole is , like raoul5788 said Galvinized and schedule 40, thats the thicker of them. you will not find it at Home Depot or Lowes type places, go to a fence place and make sure you get the heavier ones they have several thicknesses.

Can you place another pole next to the current one ?
Also, make sure you support it to the house as well.

Jimbo

 

[quarlo]

The pole is galvanized steel. Can't you mount a 5 lnb the same way your 3 lnb dish is, just a little lower to be able to attach the monopoles?

Yep, it's heavy gauge galvanized although it is a telescoping mast and, thus, tapers as it rises. This is a single story as well, although the house is built into a hillside and the basement extends approx. 5' above grade on the NW corner where the mast is mounted. According to the tech, the monopoles would have no place to mount. Who knows if that angry little man was telling me the truth. Knowing (now) the size and weight of this thing, maybe he was right.

As stated in my previous appends, the roof is being replaced and is not a candidate for mounting of any kind (including the monopoles). Yeah, I've agreed the mount needs to be changed/strengthened:

I can see that the current mount is inadequate with only one 3" lag screw into a rafter tail and the other into blocking I added behind the fascia.

The blocking I added is a 2x4 lagged into the rafters on each end. Fairly sturdy, but needs more attachment points and a brace into the wall if I do attempt to mount it there.

Another pole next to the current mast is a solution I hadn't considered. I'll get up there and measure the actual distances and clearances tomorrow, but I am more and more convinced that a pole at the SW corner of the house (wind exposed) is about as good as I'm gonna get without many hours of nasty digging.

If my neighbors weren't always complaining about E* deficiencies and DVR code updates that break more than they fix, I'd tell D* to take a hike. Still might.

Thanks again/still to all!

FX

 

[Jimbo]

Yep, it's heavy gauge galvanized although it is a telescoping mast and, thus, tapers as it rises. This is a single story as well, although the house is built into a hillside and the basement extends approx. 5' above grade on the NW corner where the mast is mounted. According to the tech, the monopoles would have no place to mount. Who knows if that angry little man was telling me the truth. Knowing (now) the size and weight of this thing, maybe he was right.

As stated in my previous appends, the roof is being replaced and is not a candidate for mounting of any kind (including the monopoles). Yeah, I've agreed the mount needs to be changed/strengthened: The blocking I added is a 2x4 lagged into the rafters on each end. Fairly sturdy, but needs more attachment points and a brace into the wall if I do attempt to mount it there.

Another pole next to the current mast is a solution I hadn't considered. I'll get up there and measure the actual distances and clearances tomorrow, but I am more and more convinced that a pole at the SW corner of the house (wind exposed) is about as good as I'm gonna get without many hours of nasty digging.

If my neighbors weren't always complaining about E* deficiencies and DVR code updates that break more than they fix, I'd tell D* to take a hike. Still might.

Thanks again/still to all!

FX

Monopoles are NOT used with a pole mount, I do not have any and have had NO trouble in the last year and 3 months I've had it set up.
The idea behind the pole mount is that you do away with the normal mast and place the dish only over the top of the pole, that is why it HAS to be the correct size.

Jimbo

 

[raoul5788]

Monopoles are NOT used with a pole mount, I do not have any and have had NO trouble in the last year and 3 months I've had it set up.
The idea behind the pole mount is that you do away with the normal mast and place the dish only over the top of the pole, that is why it HAS to be the correct size.

Jimbo

The reason I mentioned the monopoles is if he could mount the new dish the same way the old one is, with u-bolts on the side of the pole.