PS3 Downscales 720p on Incapable TVs

[Bunkhouse]

If your TV doesn't support a specific resolution, expect to go low-res.

As it turns out, gamers who own older HD sets that feature only 480i, 480p, and 1080i resolution input capabilities will have to settle for the display quality being downsized as the game boots in its 480p mode rather than upscaling the image from its more desirable 720p mode to the TV's 1080i. We tested this development on older HDTV sets with games designed for 720p but not 1080i -- Resistance: Fall of Man, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, and Need for Speed Carbon. Sure enough, the system downshifted all four titles to 480p rather than moving up to 1080i.

So if your HDTV can't accept 720p natively your games will be down converted to 480p

 

[JamesJ]

reviews arent great for the ps3, framerate issues, horrible textures, and all games made for both systems dont run well on the ps3, and look cartoony in some cases.

 

[LOBO2999]

My 2002 65" will not do 720P ,I am glad the 360 does not do this.

 

[general487]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

Sony really screwed this one up.

 

[mwgiii]

That just killed my future purchase of a PS3 to keep. Unless they can correct this.

 

[mwgiii]

OK, I have read up on this problem now and all I can say is WTF is Sony thinking.

The PS3 DOES NOT have an internal scaler. So everyone who has an older CRT HDTV (like me) will play all games in 480p instead of HD.

Here's a quote from the Resistance developer taken from GAF:

Vincey 37 -poster
Hope this hasn't been posted, as this thread and the Resistance one are impossibly long.

Sony and Insomniac, I am very, very dissapointed. Resistance will not output in 1080i. It's either 720p, or a 480p blur fest. What a pain in the ass it's going to be to change the screen resolution in the XMB everytime I want to play. Not to mention having to deal with the bad quality resulting from my CRT HDTV's crappy upscaling algorithms .

jstevenson - developer
This isn't our fault guys - we were set to support it.

mckmas8808- poster
Yeah JS. It's seriously okay if you don't know. If you don't know just say so and tell us the truth when you get a chance tomorrow if you can ask some other guys at Insomniac.
Thanks.

jstevenson - developer
Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

There. Proof from the devs MOUTH.

 

[mwgiii]

IGN article confirming: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746282p1.html

As final PlayStation 3 units continue to trickle into more and more hands, additional details about how the system works and what it can and can't do are hitting the web. The latest (rather major) tidbit is how the console treats the upscaling and downscaling of 720p titles on televisions that don't support that resolution -- specifically those that are only 1080i capable.

As it turns out, gamers who own older HD sets that feature only 480i, 480p, and 1080i resolution input capabilities will have to settle for the display quality being downsized as the game boots in its 480p mode rather than upscaling the image from its more desirable 720p mode to the TV's 1080i. We tested this development on older HDTV sets with games designed for 720p but not 1080i -- Resistance: Fall of Man, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, and Need for Speed Carbon. Sure enough, the system downshifted all four titles to 480p rather than moving up to 1080i.

 

[jgantert]

This is exactly how the original XBox works. I have a few games at 720p, but my TV doesn't do that resolution. Does the 360 convert 720p to 1080i?

-John

 

[beast37799]

well i will be not buying the ps3 anytime soon just for this reason sony has screwed things up let me ask all the ps3 owners this does it downscale bluray dvds as well?

 

[GeorgeLV]

Does the 360 convert 720p to 1080i?

Yes.

 

[Wdam33]

This is exactly how the original XBox works. I have a few games at 720p, but my TV doesn't do that resolution. Does the 360 convert 720p to 1080i?

-John

Yep...only over the analog connection though. When HDMI support comes out, it may not.

Funny thing about the PS3, is that it will scale Blue-Ray movies correctly. If you run it with a 1080i CRT with a Blue Ray movie, it will covert to 1080i. Right now, it does not do it for games. Most are hoping its a firmware issue that can be upgraded.

-Mark

 

[Neutron]

I have a 2 yr old CRT 30" Widescreen HDTV. It will not do 720p, but will do 480i, p, and 1080i.

I wasn't planning on getting the PS3 and this confirms that I will definately not get one.

 

[JoeSp]

Actually your set does not have to display 720p it only has to except the signal. Most 1080i sets before 2003 do not do that. I know the Pioneer Elite x30 series does because when I had my set calibrated my local HD guru thought the set was doing 720p natively. It showed 720p on the screen but in actuallity (he went and studied the tech circuitry) the Pioneer was showing that the input was 720p and the set was upgrading the picture to 1080i. He even called Pioneer and was supprised that the set would do that as it was not documented except in the Tech Journal in the circuitry layout.

So, it is possible that there are other 1080i sets out there that can accept a 720p signal and upgrade to 1080i in the set. I think this came about because of some OTA HD stations broadcasting in 720p. If you want to know if your set does that here is an easy way to test your HD set.

If you have a settop box (Dish HD, DirectTv HD or Cable HD) set your output on the settop to 720p. Fox and ESPNHD is 720p and a good source. CBS, NBC are 1080i and also a good source. Now tune into CBS or NBC (preferably an HD OTA signal if possible as that will give you your best picture) and the 1080i picture should look worse than if the settop is set at 720p. While these settops do a decent job of upconverting they do a lousy job of downconverting 1080i. So on a 1080i HDTV your picture will actually be worse with the settop set at 720p and outputing a 1080i channel then if the settop was set at 1080i for output. Another thing, I have a Dish 622DVR and if I watch a 720p signal and set the 622 to 720p output it looks better with my Pioneer upconverting to 1080i then if I have the 622 output at 1080i and do the upconverting before the Pioneer. If your set can receive a 720p signal and upgrade it you should get the above results. If you try this and the picture is considerably worse or you get no picture then your set cannot receive a 720p signal or downgrades that signal (some very early HDTVs did this). In that case those indivduals need to hope for a software upgrade from Sony or get the XBOX360 which is a very good console and can occomdate your HDTV for now.

Still, I am in agreement here that the PS3 should not downgrade the output but upgrade the signal to 1080i and I hope that is something Sony can take care of quickly. I hope this helps anyone who has questions on whether their set can accept a 720p signal.

 

[general487]

The developer seems to think this is a hardware issue.

PS3 Blu-ray can do 1080i because it DOWNCONVERTS from 1080p. There isn't any upconversion going on.

I don't think the PS3 hardware is capable of upconversion unless it has an internal scaler (which I don't think it does). I think they were trying to cut corners on their cost. HDTV owners from 2 years ago get screwed.

Most all games are going to be authored in 720p, so 1080i ONLY set owners BEWARE!!!!

 

[jgantert]

The developer seems to think this is a hardware issue.

PS3 Blu-ray can do 1080i because it DOWNCONVERTS from 1080p. There isn't any upconversion going on.

I don't think the PS3 hardware is capable of upconversion unless it has an internal scaler (which I don't think it does). I think they were trying to cut corners on their cost. HDTV owners from 2 years ago get screwed.

Most all games are going to be authored in 720p, so 1080i ONLY set owners BEWARE!!!!

If true, it's likely I will never own the PS3 because by the time I need to replace my TV, PS4 will be out or coming soon. Oh well.

-John