Raycom & Dish still quareling? -Dispute Settled. channels back 8/9

[Hall]

You just took "right to know" and twisted it into "making business decisions". Nice strawman. If both Dish and Raycom were privately owned companies, you would have a point. But you don't.

Are you a shareholder in either company ? If so, request the information. If you're not, find someone who is and have them ask. Your thinking that shareholders have a "right to know" is no different than the examples I gave.... Shareholders, whether you like it or not, don't have access to all aspects of business.

 

[osu1991]

For all intents and purposes, you don't pay Dish for the channels that are picked up by that OTA tuner. Remove the tuner - your bill won't be reduced.

The affiliates are still using public airwaves to distribute the signal to Dish/Directv. I know in Tulsa Cox actually gets all the local signals via Fiber, but Dish/Direct and ATT have to pick them up with an antenna.

IMO the public has a right to know the financial details involved in that use

 

[sam_gordon]

The affiliates are still using public airwaves to distribute the signal to Dish/Directv. I know in Tulsa Cox actually gets all the local signals via Fiber, but Dish/Direct and ATT have to pick them up with an antenna.

IMO the public has a right to know the financial details involved in that use

Could you use the same argument to find out what a station is charging for commercials? After all, they're using the airwaves to distribute the commercials.

 

[osu1991]

Could you use the same argument to find out what a station is charging for commercials? After all, they're using the airwaves to distribute the commercials.

IMO Yes. I have to make all my contracts public, because part of my work deals with public owned facilities, why shouldn't these companies? Every one of my competitors knows exactly what I charge and how much I make each month and year because I have to disclose it.

 

[Tampa8]

But since the beginning of television, there has not been 100% coverage in ANY market. Since that has been established for a half century or so, how do you now make the claim stations "aren't serving the public"?
I'm willing to hazard even WITH satellite, there are locations that can't get a television signal. So how can you expect stations to serve everyone?

I would make the claim before now though. We could not get ABC from WNHC where I grew up. (Now WTNH) We got sometime signals from RI. Today at my own home in Ct., I can not receive WTNH OTA reliably since going digital at my home even with a good antenna and booster. As hard as it is to get, I am able to often though not always get the ABC from Springfield Mass.

While not 100% coverage true, it's still far more reach with Satellite than without it.
But not to lose what I am saying, it's mostly one way, all towards the affiliates. Should they not get what they want, I suffer when they are supposed to be serving me with a signal and yet not allow another affiliate to give it to me if they will not.

 

[whatchel1]

Why is it that these agreements aren't public knowledge.Never understood that.

Cause they don't want us to know how much both of them are taking home. BTW I cleaned that up a lot from what I really feel.

 

[sam_gordon]

I would make the claim before now though. We could not get ABC from WNHC where I grew up. (Now WTNH) We got sometime signals from RI. Today at my own home in Ct., I can not receive WTNH OTA reliably since going digital at my home even with a good antenna and booster. As hard as it is to get, I am able to often though not always get the ABC from Springfield Mass.

While not 100% coverage true, it's still far more reach with Satellite than without it.
But not to lose what I am saying, it's mostly one way, all towards the affiliates. Should they not get what they want, I suffer when they are supposed to be serving me with a signal and yet not allow another affiliate to give it to me if they will not.

I respect what you're saying. I just don't think it's as simple as you're making out. For example, let's say stations x, y, and z are in a market. Station x has a dispute with a provider and gets pulled. You (and others) want the provider to pull in the network feed from station a in a neighboring market. Sounds good. But what do you do when station a and station z runs the same syndicated program(s)? Does the provider now need to look at getting the affiliate from a different market, one that doesn't have any syndication conflicts? What about commercial conflicts? As I understand it, commercials are contracted to run in certain markets.

I still like the idea of a flat fee determined by 3rd party arbitrator. Yes, there are a lot of holes in that simple theory, but nothing that can't be worked out.

 

[Tampa8]

I still like the idea of a flat fee determined by 3rd party arbitrator. Yes, there are a lot of holes in that simple theory, but nothing that can't be worked out.

That's at least a starting point, better than we now have.

 

[whatchel1]

The affiliates are still using public airwaves to distribute the signal to Dish/Directv. I know in Tulsa Cox actually gets all the local signals via Fiber, but Dish/Direct and ATT have to pick them up with an antenna.

IMO the public has a right to know the financial details involved in that use

Actually less of that these days as many are coming via fiber link. D* is getting it that way from a station I worked at in Amarillo. I had to help tie our signal into their fiber panel. E* got their signal via fiber that went to a location down the street that did pick up the OTA via antenna. So it depends entirely on the station as to which takes place. By now I would think that at least half the stations are tied in via fiber.

 

[sam_gordon]

Actually less of that these days as many are coming via fiber link. D* is getting it that way from a station I worked at in Amarillo. I had to help tie our signal into their fiber panel. E* got their signal via fiber that went to a location down the street that did pick up the OTA via antenna. So it depends entirely on the station as to which takes place. By now I would think that at least half the stations are tied in via fiber.

You'd be wrong. 1/5 (counting PBS) is fiber in my market to D*. 0/5 is fiber to E*.

Unless the LiL pickup is colocated with a station, fiber is expensive to use. As has been mentioned plenty of times, there is no added cost for OTA reception.

 

[Bobby]

And in San Francisco 5 of 5 is fiber to Comcast, 0 of 5 to Dish...

 

[Hall]

Hmmm, I wonder if Comcast supplies that fiber as well ?

 

[sam_gordon]

Hmmm, I wonder if Comcast supplies that fiber as well ?

Probably. Our local cable company (TW) has at least 3/4 getting to them via fiber, but TW owns the fiber. What's expensive is renting the fiber. I would guess no more than 25% (and that's being generous) of affiliates are feeding D* or E* via fiber.

 

[Hall]

Years ago, the chief engineer at Time Warner here told me they get the locals by fiber, antenna, or microwave. This was for, I presume, five networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, and WB/CW).

I understand that both D* and E* are uplinked by our CBS affiliate but no idea how the signals (from the other networks) get to this uplink point.

 

[ashutto20]

Not sure about others but I have no cover art and my timers are not saving...had to manually save unforgettable Sunday...guide didn't have it as a new episode

Just FYI

 

[thomasjk]

I saw the same thing Sunday with the cover art and timers. I deleted the current ones and set new ones for BB, Unforgettable.

 

[ohioankev]

Raycom isn't a network though.

Another thought... how many Nielsen families (those who Nielsen actually measures) are Dish customers? A drop of a percentage or two isn't unusual book to book. So those hoping Raycom will see a actual ratings drop may not get their wish.

Last but not least, how many of the markets are metered (meaning their 'ratings' are actually measured 24/7/365), and how many utilize diary? If they're diary, the next measurement is in November, which means results won't be available until the middle of December. I do know the Louisville market (NBC is Raycom owned) is metered. I don't know about the others. For the viewers' sake, I hope they don't need to wait until December for stations to see what the dispute does for ratings.

Neilson needs a revamp. There is no need for diaries in this day and age. What Neilson should do is make a deal with set top box manufactures and TV providers to set up an infrastructure that would allow the cable box units to collect the data, transmit it to the providers and then the providers send it to Neilson. Sure some people may not like this but they could just "opt out" by clicking on the opt out button in the units settings.

 

[sam_gordon]

Years ago, the chief engineer at Time Warner here told me they get the locals by fiber, antenna, or microwave. This was for, I presume, five networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, and WB/CW).

I understand that both D* and E* are uplinked by our CBS affiliate but no idea how the signals (from the other networks) get to this uplink point.

I've been to the D* reception point a number of times. Like I said, they get 1/5 via fiber, the rest OTA. They all get muxed together, then sent via fiber (primary & backup) to Cheyenne (or wherever HQ is is). I've never been to E*, but I know they're not colocated with a station, so that makes getting the signals via fiber expensive.

Neilson needs a revamp. There is no need for diaries in this day and age. What Neilson should do is make a deal with set top box manufactures and TV providers to set up an infrastructure that would allow the cable box units to collect the data, transmit it to the providers and then the providers send it to Neilson. Sure some people may not like this but they could just "opt out" by clicking on the opt out button in the units settings.

That's a good idea. I wonder if providers could use this as a negotiating tool... "we'll give you statistics on what people are watching in exchange for a lower fee per subscriber." Let's think outside the box.

 

[Hall]

I've been to the D* reception point a number of times. Like I said, they get 1/5 via fiber, the rest OTA. They all get muxed together, then sent via fiber (primary & backup) to Cheyenne (or wherever HQ is is). I've never been to E*, but I know they're not colocated with a station, so that makes getting the signals via fiber expensive.

Do any locals transmit the collected signals via satellite to the providers ? I'm positive that's what I was told happens here...

That's a good idea. I wonder if providers could use this as a negotiating tool... "we'll give you statistics on what people are watching in exchange for a lower fee per subscriber." Let's think outside the box.

You can be certain that Dish, Directv, and the cablecos use the viewing data that they collect via their set-tops in negotiations !

 

[HDRoberts]

Do any locals transmit the collected signals via satellite to the providers ? I'm positive that's what I was told happens here...

Pretty sure not. However, I do think DirecTV uses a Ka licence at 101 for the purpose of locals backhaul in remote areas, but I think it is DirecTV that uplinks them from the OTA collection site, not the locals themselves. Although in some cases, they may outsource this to one particular local to do it for all stations in the market.

?Remember that they are not typically all transmitted to Cheyenne. They also have uplinks in Gilbert AZ, Monee IL, Orange NJ, New Braunfels TX, Quicksburg VA, and Spokane WA.