Recommendations for a complete system?

[Dee_Ann]

Wow!

Maybe my efforts will pay off after all!

My dad has offered to buy me a whole satellite system!

Him and my mom (so says he) want a motorized satellite dish for FTA channels.
IF I can get all the info together for a system that will do what he wants, he will buy me a duplicate system for my place!

The catch is, I have to install them both. He'll help me with the physical stuff because I don't like ladders and I'm not very strong. But I have to do all the brain work and setup and alignment stuff. OMG... I have never messed with a motor dish.


Let me describe what it is they want and hopefully you guys can help me make up a shopping list.

They have a brand new wide screen hd tv. I don't know what the brand is just yet, if that matters, which I think it will.

They want to get PBS for sure. That's a big selling point for them. I showed my folks PBS HD on my setup and they were all excited about it.

I tried to tune the HD channels on my coolsat 6000 and they are all garbagey, green streaks and weird stuff. So I don't think one of them will work.

Being able to get the PBS HD is important here. And I guess the weird sound it uses too, that AC3 thing.

They also would love to get RTV because there's some stuff on there they both love. My dad likes those stupid A-team and night rider shows and my mom likes Banachek and McMillian & Wife. I'm sure they will both find a lot of stuff they like on RTV.

And History & Bio on 101 is also a big deal for both of them. Dad would probably like the nasa channel. He loves drooling over complicated machines. Sheesh!

And being on a motor is a must so they can move it around when things change as they apparently do often.

Putting up multiple dishes is 100% out of the question, mom forbids it and that is Her Majesty's final edict on that subject. A single, moving dish is permitted.

I guess that blind scan thing is important too so my dad can maintain it himself, they don't have internet at home and I don't want to become the person who has to go over there all the time to change things for them.

Dad still lives in the world of tubes, AM radio and black & white tv. He's not at all into the modern world. I am not either but I try to learn so I'm not totally dependent on someone else.

And I guess dish size too. 1.2 meter size, right? For best results?
Oh and an lnb that gets everything, now and future. What is there, linear and circular, right? That will cover it all?

Anything I've forgotten?
HD tuner = ?
Dish = ?
Motor = ?
lnb = ?

I don't know if dad will want it mounted on their house or on a pole but I know it will not be one of those tripod things and for sure not one of those cement block things I have seen. I've still to find that out.

As for the one I end up with, I want it to be pole mount, it will have to be because of trees around the house. It has to be out in the middle of the yard where the others are now.

So two complete, identical systems. Hopefully not too expensive so he won't balk at the cost of two of them but still be good stuff.

I suspect the shipping costs would be enormous for two of all that stuff, maybe there is a walk in store in Houston or Dallas or maybe Tulsa (dad is going there soon) where he could walk in and buy everything cash & carry and save the shipping.

And while I would like to have something nice, I don't want to break the bank and burn up my inheritance just yet. I'm gonna need it one day..

Thank you!

 

[osu1991]

Not in Tulsa anymore. Back in the C band days we had several, but now everyone is Dish/Direct. We have a few places you can get an FTA receiver, but they usually are clones or hack type units that they want a fortune for. Not any place that I know of to get a dish. There might be a place in OKC, but I don't know of any off the top of my head. Saw someone selling some receivers on Craigslist in OKC out of a store about 6 months ago, but not recently.

I personally tend to stick to Sadoun, Satav, or Ricks Satellite when I have to buy something. I have bought the out of the ordinary part from other places occasionally. Mainly some Primestar/Channelmaster parts.

 

[Anole]

overview:

Dee -

You probably -have- two suitable dishes.

Look through what you've got, and search for 1.0 meter (39") or 1.2 meter (4') ChannelMaster dishes.
They may say Primestar, or Andrew on them, and will be molded, with molded-in ribs on the back side.
They're round, and have three LNB support struts.

A possible secondary dish might be your Primestar 84e dishes.
They are elliptical, maybe 40" wide and 25..30+ inches tall, with a single LNB support.

After choosing the dish, then you can select -which- of the H-H Powertech motors Sadoun sells.
His new line are the only way I'd spend my own money, or even someone else's! -

The LNB that covers most all the bases, is the Invacom QPH-031.
It has a built-in feedhorn, and has two outputs for circular, and two for linear.
It's a Standard LNB, so that precludes reception of any birds needing Universal LNBs, but you can discuss whether that impacts you or not.
I'll assume not.

This LNB is suitable for any round offset dish, but not the right choice for an elliptical dish.
More discussion on that matter, if required.

The reason you don't get the HD picture or Dolby sound on the Coolsat 6000, is because it's a Standard Def receiver.
So, you need a High Def receiver, instead.
Is there a good one? No, not just one.
Most everybody I know, has two or three, to get all the signals and to blind scan.
The receiver will be your most difficult decision.
I recommend you get the folks going with your Coolsat in SD first, and put off the HD receiver 'till after the first of the year, or longer if possible. -

edit:
No, shipping on everything you need will be very modest, except . . .
. . . except for a dish.
So, re-read my first sentence! -

 

[Dee_Ann]

I appreciate all the options but I'm being offered a complete NEW system and all I have to give in return is some of my time to help my dad put one up for him and my mom.

The have *nothing* and do not want used or old stuff. They want a new, under warranty system that does get the High Definition channels and also, I almost forgot, White Springs.

Considering that I am being offered a *brand new, FREE system, I would like get a *brand new* system, including a new dish, a new lnb and a new motor (I don't have even an old one) for it.

I can fore go the tuner as my pc seems to be getting the HD PBS channels just fine and because I already now own a coolsat 6000.

I have seen people saying that coolsat is about to go ka-flop and shut down so I would not want my dad to get one, he would be mad as a hornet. He wants stuff from a company that is going to be around for 5 or 10 years and has been in business already for a number of years. I know how he is, he is a hard nose about that sort of thing.

I figure if I do without a tuner I can instead get a bigger, nicer dish.

So my folks would get a *total system*, everything, tuner, dish, motor, lnb and anything else I forgot.

I would need only a dish, motor and lnb. I can live without another tuner. I have two as it is now.

Also, I have seen people say that you can use a 1.2 meter dish to get both cband and ku. I would like to maybe do that too.

And I still want to eliminate the multiple dishes I have and have only one on a motor. My folks would have only one on a motor as well.
My mom totally forbids multiple dishes at their house, that is NOT going to be happening with them, ever. She said they can have ONE dish and one dish only.
It is fine if it's a little larger and it's fine to be on a motor. But only ONE.

And I hate that ugly mess of dishes in my back yard. You guys may think that's neato stuff but I think it's just flat out horrible looking. I can not wait to get them all down except for one larger one on a motor.

Sorry to be repetitive but my folks are very inflexible (mom) so I'm trying to be clear as to what they need.

As for what I have, I have several large dishes of those channelmasters and they are not very good on White Springs. The one I use for White Springs is a channelmaster 84e. The biggest one I have is that large round channelmaster that is missing a part. I don't want to mess with it. I just want to get a new one that's got all the parts and works when I put it up without having to use broomsticks and duck tape to get it working. No. Don't want to play that game.
I'm tired of fighting with these stupid things. I want to sit on my rear end in the air conditioning and push a button while a nice little motor moves the thing all around the sky for me. And all of it a mosquito free operation.

It's too hot to be outside. Really. And messing with machinery and wires and stuff is just not what I had in mind for wiling away my summer hours.


Thanks guys!

 

[Tron]

Its going to be difficult to recommend a HD receiver from a company that has been around for a long time, since most of these receiver manufacturers come and go, and often the receivers themselves are manufactured by a third party company in any case. If company track record is important, then probably the Pansat 9200 would be your best choice. In my opinion, however, it is NOT the best choice in functionality, since the PVR (hard drive recording option) uses a non-standard file system. Personally, if I HAD to buy a HD receiver tonight, it would probably be the AZBox, and its still a product in the developmental stages.

 

[walrus1957]

Dee-

If your mounting the dish on a roof I recomend the DS2076cm dish made by Winegard. It is light weight but sturdy and its design when used with the Invacom QPH-031 out performs many 90cm dishes. I have tested a few dish sizes and can confirm this statement. For your location the Wingard DS2076 model will work well for you. It well perform well, is durable to withstand the elements and easy to install. A 1.2 meter dish is very heavy, wind loads easy and difficult to align with the motor tube. I sent you a couple PMs with additional information for you to review.

The best linear/circular KU lnb on the market today I still say is the Invacom QPH-031.

One of the best motors is the H-H from Sadouns like the DG280/380, the DG380 has built in self adjusting anti backlash but can not say for sure it is worth the extra money spent, but it is a nice feature. IF YOU decide on one of these motors and the 76cm Winegard dish make sure you order a motor model with the 42mm tube like the DG280B.

Can't help you with a recomendation on a good HD receiver with good blind scan. I use the Coolsat 5000 and Pansat 2700A models exclusively.

I notice you are a regular on this site, have you ever installed a motorized dish before? It can be difficult if not impossible for some, and for others it seems to be no problems at all.

Hopefully you will get more input from the other regulars on what they use and prefer, with a bit of performance review. There are a lot of dishes/lnbs/motors and receivers on the market and makes it difficult to decide on the right setup.

 

[phlatwound]

Unless you are absolutely forced to by line-of-sight issues (or an edict by Her Majesty ), I would not install your folks' dish on the roof.

Besides the extreme wind issues you experience with the hurricanes down there even the best of systems require some occasional tweaking and maintenance. You're much better off with a pole mount in the yard.

If you don't already have them plan on buying a 500 or 1000 foot roll of good coax, some compression connectors and tools to strip coax and install the connectors.

Another vote here for the DG280/380 motors, and I can also highly recommend dealing with Sadoun, SatAV and WSI/Galaxy (in alphabetical order), all 3 have been great to do business with.

Ditto on the Invacom QPH-031, it's a proven performer, will allow you to get linear and circular with one unit (you'll need circular to get NASA on 119 for your Dad) and you can also feed multiple receivers, if desired.

I can't comment on how the stamped-steel 1.2 meter dishes from our sponsors perform on a H-to-H motor (DG380 for instance) since I haven't tried one personally, but I would not automatically rule out going with a 1 meter dish. Most of my Ku viewing is done with two 90 cm dishes (both motorized) and I can get most anything that I try for.

Decisions, decisions.............

 

[walrus1957]

Unless you are absolutely forced to by line-of-sight issues (or an edict by Her Majesty ), I would not install your folks' dish on the roof.

Besides the extreme wind issues you experience with the hurricanes down there even the best of systems require some occasional tweaking and maintenance. You're much better off with a pole mount in the yard.

If you don't already have them plan on buying a 500 or 1000 foot roll of good coax, some compression connectors and tools to strip coax and install the connectors.

Another vote here for the DG280/380 motors, and I can also highly recommend dealing with Sadoun, SatAV and WSI/Galaxy (in alphabetical order), all 3 have been great to do business with.

Ditto on the Invacom QPH-031, it's a proven performer, will allow you to get linear and circular with one unit (you'll need circular to get NASA on 119 for your Dad) and you can also feed multiple receivers, if desired.

I can't comment on how the stamped-steel 1.2 meter dishes from our sponsors perform on a H-to-H motor (DG380 for instance) since I haven't tried one personally, but I would not automatically rule out going with a 1 meter dish. Most of my Ku viewing is done with two 90 cm dishes (both motorized) and I can get most anything that I try for.

Decisions, decisions.............

Could not agree more with everything said here, especially the ground mounting of the dish. Makes it so much easier to install and maintain. Not to mention the fact your not drilling holes in your roof!

As to the DG280 and 380 motors from Sadoun, they work great with the heavy 1.2 meter dishes. I have purchased from Sadouns, SatAV and WSI, all are great to do business with!

Just one note about the large dishes, my brother currently has all his KU feed from a 1.2 meter dish and his setup is only 20 miles east of my location. There is only about 1% difference in quality between his 1.2 meter and my 76cm dish. The only advantage I noticed here is a few feeds running 63% quality jumped to 67% on the 1.2 meter dish. Strong signals seem to be relatively constant between the two dishes. But a 5% increase in quality on a feed transponder can make the difference from pixelation or no signal at all to perfect viewing.

 

[zamar23]

Dee,

Since you don't need an HD Receiver for yourself now, you can get a bigger dish instead. I'd suggest you a grows oriented "business plan":

1. Buy your folks a Ku-band set, based on 1.2 m (4 ') dish (WSI advertises one heavily right now) with a suitable motor and strong post, HD Receiver (probably AZBox Elite, since its quite advanced, and going to offer Blind Scan and extra US specific tuners a bit later, if your folks ever need those). Invacom QPH-031 is your 1st choice LNB. Later, when your folks are better appointed with their system, and will inevitably ask for more channel variety, you can upgrade their setup to a 1.2 m mini-BUD for some extra C-band reception with an extra C-band LNB and scalar ring & bracket to mount and adjust it properly. One Chieta DiSEqC switch in a weather box, a coax cable roll and connector tools, good inclinometer and compass, and some smaller parts like tapcon screws, cable ties, etc. will complete your list. A serious bonus would be an inexpensive modern A/V Home Theather Receiver like one of Onkyo models with its speaker set, and extra speaker wire, audio & video cables to connect them all.

2. For yourself consider a motorized C-band BUD with 1.8 m (6') dish. You already mostly exploited, what you can get in SD in Ku-band - not that much. Don't touch your setup for now. Install a motorized BUD, and learn everything with it about C-band, and enjoy a lot more channels than you have now. Later you can upgrade your Ku-band farm to a single 1 m motorized Ku-band dish, in particular when you decide to get a large HDTV. On top, your gained experience with the BUD will make converting later your folks' setup to a mini-BUD a snap. In exchange, they may agree to sponsor your future Ku-band motorized dish project with an HD Receiver (good for C-and-Ku band), so all you'll need later to buy is a new flat panel HDTV. Or, you can setup from the start a motorized 1.8 m C/Ku-band BUD by adding a C/Ku band LNBF like DMX741 from WSI, specifically designed for a Prime Focus Dish. Look through the thread Best C-band 6' Dish Setup for more ideas.

 

[walrus1957]

Dee,


Buy your folks a Ku-band set, based on 1.2 m (4 ') dish (WSI advertises one heavily right now) with a suitable motor, HD Receiver (probably AZBox Elite, since its quite advanced, and going to offer Blind Scan and extra US specific tuners a bit later, if your folks ever need those).
.

zamar23-

For the rest of us following this thread can you eleborate a bit more on the AZBox Elite HD receiver and what it can do. I for one am not very knowlegeable of what the best HD box would be and what formats it supports. A good blind scan is a must, and being upgradeable would definately be a plus.

 

[osu1991]

http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpe...74582-review-azbox-elite-hd-fta-receiver.html

Look here for a complete ongoing review of the AzBox

 

[zamar23]

walrus1957

Developed mostly by OpenSat HD Receiver AZBox - a Linux based STB quite popular nowadays due to extensive feature set, despite being in limited distribution in the US, mostly because some optional US specific tuners refinement is on the way, and some firmware features popular here like Blindscan (especially among feed lovers) are not yet included in its official version. Learn more about AZBox, its usual for a Sat STB and special features by browsing its official site. Of course, SatGuys regulars prefer to discover such features on their own, hence it may help to look through a quite popular AZBox Elite Review thread.

 

[walrus1957]

Thanks you guys! I have been looking through the thread link of the review, and love the fact it is linux based. If I hear for sure that blindscan upgrades are a for sure, I'm sold on this BoX! I would think anyone else would be to.

 

[Cadsulfide]

If Stogie likes it, it has to be OK.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Wow! Lots of options to consider here!
Lots of reading to do too.

I've looked at some of the package deals that are offered by some of the various sponsors but don't think I've seen one that will really address the needs of my folks. (or mine)..

It seems we'll have to do some pick-n-choose to get the stuff to cover them and mine.

I took a few days off to deal with some personal issues.

In other news, I haven't had White Springs for more than a week.
I finally figured out that the pole it was on was loose as a goose in the ground.
So, I made a little deal with my neighbor, he dug up the old wiggly post from the ground and broke the cement off of it so I could re-use it, dug a new hole and replanted it for me. He did all the work and all it cost me was a six pack of beer. Some imported stuff, starts with an H. I can't remember, I can't stand the stuff myself. But I thought it was a fair trade, as did he. Works for me.

I stood in the shade and handed him beers when he took breaks.

So today I have to go back out and put the dish back on the pole and find the satellite again. It should be better now, I checked it a while ago and it's really solid and he leveled it super good. I'm sure that will be much better than that wiggly post it was on. Now if I can just get rid of that darn tree that I THINK is adding to my problems.


Oh, that reminds me. On my folks place. What is the best way to figure out where to put their dish?
They have a two story house so putting it on the roof is not a good idea I don't think, and as many of you recommend against. Not with the hurricanes we get.
The only thing I am concerned about is there is a tall house next door to them that could be a problem.

I'm wondering if there are some videos on youtube that I can watch to help me learn more about all this stuff and how to pick the right spot to plant these things??


update: Wheeeeeee! I am now getting White Springs again, according to info on the pc, the picture is 100% and the quality is 100%. Amazing!
After months of misery, it was all a wiggly pole. I think I'm doing pretty good now.
What a shame that KUIL went bye bye. But no surprise considering Lamar University is behind it.

 

[trinity13]

Dee,

Won't the dishpointer LOS program on your iphone help you to check the arc at your selected location in your parents yard?

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee,

Won't the dishpointer LOS program on your iphone help you to check the arc at your selected location in your parents yard?

Oh, maybe it will. I forgot about that.

Well, besides that, are there any other methods? How do professionals do it?

 

[stogie5150]

If Stogie likes it, it has to be OK.

I will tell ya this, It aint no newbie box, it drives me insane sometimes, but dang it it can do things I thought were impossible a year ago.

 

[Shawn95GT]

Oh, maybe it will. I forgot about that.

Well, besides that, are there any other methods? How do professionals do it?

Site survey.

Basically figure out before hand the elevation and azimuth to the desired satellites and get out there with a compass and eyeball the elevation. They have tools for it which you could fabricate with a straw and a protractor and be close enough.

Lucky for you, you're in South Texas. This means that the satellites are high in the sky. I'm in Phoenix (probably north of you) and shooting over my South facing house from the back yard with ease.

Looks like 129 will be as far West as you need to go for a Ku setup so LOS to the West is your biggest concern. If you aren't going with a universal LNB there isn't much interesting East of 72. This makes things easy for you.

I'm able to see 58w to 148w on my motorized setup and if I position a fixed dish just right I can see 43w (just so barely shoots over the neighbor's house).

Good luck!

 

[zamar23]

Dee,

Read HOW TO SETUP A MOTORIZED SATELLITE DISH Tutorial, it contains everything you need to setup a Ku-band motorized dish. Some C-band specific aiming info can be found on excellent Geo-Orbit site.