Request for Advice: Which Dish Should Outernet Carry?

Which dish should Outernet carry for reception of G19

  • Winegard 76cm

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Azure Shine 90cm

    Votes: 8 57.1%
  • Winegard 1-meter

    Votes: 5 35.7%

  • Total voters
    14
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Saw them at a show and talked with a few folks about the feedhorn not properly illuminating the shape and overshooting the empty corners. Using an off the shelf feedhorn LNBF, the SNR and performance would be lower than similar size/shape traditional reflector.

I would be concerned about the maximum elevation angle of 60 degrees. This would limit the region's where it could be mounted on a plumb/level post.

A plus would be the shipping charges for the surface area would be reduced! :D
 
But those Fracarra's have a nice modern shape and come in different colors too. Nice FR logo to boot.
Reminds me of a Yield traffic sign.:)

Outernet, did you think about selling or throwing in a free compass with the satellite dish, as that will at least get them in the right direction (azimuth) initially. It's a very big Clarke Belt out there. They'd also need to know their longitude/latitude but maybe I'm getting a little ahead here.

How about a future YouTube video on setting it up?

As to whether the audio signal indicator should buzz, beep, whine, ring, etc., it should at least be able to be turned off if not wanted. And if it's an easy option to include, I'd say go with it, better to have it if needed than not at all. Remember these dishes will be installed by folks with little experience or none at all so furnish them with all the options to make their installation as easy as possible. Remember, no satellite signal = no Outernet signal.
 
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spongella Good idea. We had not considered offering much in the way of pointing tools. But I feel that the compass and simple satellite meter doesn't help the first-timer all that much. Can you recommend a satmeter that displays video (to know for sure) that is decent quality and low (ish) cost?
 
Well if you want to keep costs down and the method simple, since you already have a system in place with your receiver for detecting signal levels, you pretty much have what you need with the exception of a compass. I still think your customers need at least a compass to determine where the satellite's azimuth is. For example, at my location (74.5W, 40.5N) Galaxy 19 @ 97W would have a compass heading (magnetic azimuth) of 225 degrees. So using the compass as a general guide that is where you'd point the dish. You'd also have to adjust the LNB skew also, then set the elevation as per a satellite lookup table. Now you'll move your dish in small increments up and down and left and right while watching (or listening) to your signal meter. You'd want to set the transponder parameters for your Outernet signal ahead of time too.

As for signal meters and satellite finders, they come in many different models and prices. I use the two below, they simply show a meter swing when you are pointing in the vicinity of a satellite. They won't tell you which satellite you are on though. The Radio Shack cost me about 30 bucks a few years ago, the Channel Master about 70. Much more sophisticated meters/finders are available which provide more information and other members of the forum can chime in on the virtues of their particular model. Currently I use, in conjunction with the Channel Master below, an 8Dtek Desired; this is a battery powered satellite receiver with a small screen for viewing programs from a satellite, and has a built in signal meter, and other bells and whistles which would be overkill for most of your customers. These meters sell for about $270. The lowest cost satellite meter, which I have used in the past and had served me very well, was the Satlink WS-6906. However that version did not receive MPEG IV. You can look on reputable vendor sites for these, check this forum for reviews of meters or just window shop on Ebay. At this time the WS-6906 which is an old model is selling for less than $100. Learning curves depend on the user though.

What others do when aiming a dish is to set up a regular satellite receiver and TV set right at the dish, this way they can actually see the programs from the satellite.

I will let those with more experience weigh in on this one, as my method is not necessarily the best approach. However it has served me well. When I started in this hobby 7 years ago I had no one to guide me, no experience whatsoever, learned from scratch, trial and error, and many hours at the dish. It was about three months before I found my first satellite!
 

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spongella Good idea. We had not considered offering much in the way of pointing tools. But I feel that the compass and simple satellite meter doesn't help the first-timer all that much. Can you recommend a satmeter that displays video (to know for sure) that is decent quality and low (ish) cost?

You may not need to offer them as I alluded to in my former post, but they should be aware of the minimal tools needed for a expeditious and successful installation. I would check some YouTube videos from satellite vendors on how to aim a dish, that might help you.
 
I must agree. Without a compass the first time installer is just swinging the dish around having no clue of a direction or angle . The aiming calculations should be built-in to the receiver's install process. A table of closest cities provided during the install screens would be close enough to provide the installer with an approximate compass reading, elevation and LNBF rotation (skew).

A fluid filled compass and 50' of Rg6 with quality compression fittings are the minimum that should be included with a self install kit. These items will help provide a successful install and years of reliable operation. Most DIY installers do not know how to make a proper fitting or have the right tools. The coax cable connection is the weakest link and wood likely create the most support issues.

A fluid filled compass is less than 25 cents wholesale and 50' Rg6 with compression fittings about 1.35.

A good reference for a self install guide is the Glorystar Install guide that I wrote while an owner at Satellite AV. This guide is included with all Glorystar systems and provides an excellent base for successful self installs.
 
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I love the idea of Outernet, but I thinki it is kinda too bad that Outernet isn't using circular polarities which would be able to use a small pizza dish with no skew issues - among other benefits.
 
Circular Polarity does not automatically mean using a "pizza" dish. DISH, Directv, Bell, etc., are pumping out some serious wattage to be able to use a very small dish.
 
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For circularly polarized signals, the Outernet user would need an LNB with circular polarization, such as the Invacomm QPH-031 which has linear and circular polarity connectors. It's kind of a big, heavy LNB though. Come to think of it, don't know of any LNB other than the Invacomm that has circular polarity option. Those are used pretty much for the paid satellite services.

And, would the satellite, e.g. Galaxy 19, be able to transmit RHCP or LHCP signals?

There are some C band Atlantic satellites like 22W and 40.5W that use circular polarization, but as for Ku FTA, don't know of any. Some years back I did scan a number of Ku satellites for circular signals and did find one transmitting some type of video game apparently.

One advantage of circular polarity is that skew adjustment is not necessary.
 

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"Although we do currently broadcast over 113W, the intended signal for the North American market is 97W. We have been using a Winegard DS2076 and an Azure Shine 90cm without issue (Chicago, Detroit, Boston). But based on the map at Satbeams, 76cm may not be sufficient in many parts of the country."

Outernet, I see that on 97W you have a marker card, while for 113W you have a radio channel. Is your marker card also transmitting Outernet data?
 
Circular polarity KU is only used by the subscription satellites. One does NOT need a combo linear/circular LNBF like the QPH/QPF-031 to receive circular polarity signals. Every Dish Network, DirecTV, Bell dish has a circular LNBF on it. A QPF/QPH-031 would not be suitable in other areas of the world as it only targets the frequencies and polarity assignments used in North America.

FSS KU satellites are typically only operated in the 10.7-12.2GHz range with linear polarity (there are a few exceptions). For worldwide distribution and compatibility, a universally used polarity and readily available LNBF should be used. The worldwide standard for KU satellite reception is a linear Universal type 10.7-12.75GHz LO LNBF. Why spec a unique polarity and LNBF type for each region? That would be a support and logistical nightmare.

97w data signal has a VPID transmitted with a static image so STBs assign it to the TV list. 113w data signal does not have a VPID, so STBs assign it to the Radio list. But in reality, both services do not belong in either the TV or a Radio list as it is a data service.
 
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imo good instructions on how to use a site like www.dishpointer.com would be cheaper/easier than a compass. zoom in/out of your house and sight using local streets & landmarks. Those little compasses aren't very accurate or precise and anything better might be too costly
 
You must remember however, Outernet will be used where there will not be internet available to look up setup instructions online. Sort of the whole purpose of the project I believe.
 
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Correct, that is the whole point. We can, however, include a lot of setup instructions on the receiver, which can be accessed over wifi (or ethernet).
 
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The last pay satellite receiver I self-installed about 8 years ago had built in aiming software.
You would enter your zip code (nearest city as mentioned earlier would probably be more useful for this project) and it would
list all the aiming parameters for you.

I would guess it was based on a simple pre-populated table of values without any trigonometric formulae involved, given the narrowly defined set of satellites used and limited geographic area served.
 
Lots of good input here, learning more and more all the time. Satellites are fascinating, God bless Arthur C. Clarke for envisioning geostationary satellites and their great potential for world wide communications.
 
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I have seen way more newbie people get lucky with setting up a Bell 18" or 24"pizza dish with a single circular LNB than I have seen anyone get as lucky with any linear dish setup. Just sayin, why not use high power and easier to set up? And reasonably, why not put it on a sat that already has millions of people pointed at it. If it is too late, then that's how it is I guess.
 
As far as I know, Dish and DirecTV operate end to end media services and do not allow 3rd parties to lease channels for free-to-air services. You're right, it would be the ideal, though.
 
Most of the time, FTA newbies just swing the dish back and forth. It's sounds sorta contradictory, but it's actually quicker if the dish is just slightly adjusted, and pause for the receiver to 'lock' onto the signal. Repeat until you get it. Those high power DBS sats allow for a continuous 'swing' if not too fast.
 
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