Sean is 100% Correct About D* Picture Quality

[colebert]

I'm a recent convert (less than 1 week) to D* from Comcast. About 99% of the reason is NFL:ST in HD. I haven't gotten to try that yet, but compared to Comcast and locals OTA, the D* HD channels are far worse in quality.

Here in Little Rock, we had: INHD1/2, TNTHD, DISC-HD, STARZ-HD, SHOW-HD, HBO-HD, CINEMAX-HD and ESPN-HD.

I can say, without a doubt that the D* HDTV package channels we have are being starved for bandwidth and look sub-par compared to Comcast (Comcrap?). To read the posts in this forum and see otherwise reasonable people stand-up and defend this HD Picture Quality is quite saddening. Everyone must understand that there's way more to HD than just high resolution.

And the SD content quality... WOW. All I needed to see was the NFL Network on D* compared to Comcast. Many times on Comcast I was floored by how good NFL Network looked compared to the HD channels. Simply the best SD channel I had ever seen, PERIOD. Compare that to the NFL channel on D* and you literally want to cry. It looks like something you'd download off of Kazaa.

I'm not Comcast fanboi. In fact, I hated seeing my bill every month. But let's call a spade a spade here. D* PQ is medicore for most all of their channels (i'm withholding judgment on the NFL:ST stuff yet.)

But its not their fault and I don't blame them. They flew too close to the sun on wings of LIL channels. They don't have enough Satellite space to deliver their great channel selection AND make it look good. Bottom line.

After the NFL season, I'll probably end up suspending my account for 6 months and going with OTA until pre-season starts. Maybe then the birds will be launched and they'll stop choking their bitrates across the board.

 

[colebert]

btw, I have a Pio Plasma and a TS160 receiver connected with HDMI/DVI. Comcast was connected with HDMI/DVI, too.

 

[Robel]

I have a 60" Philips HD tv and DirecTV's picture quality is so bad, that I hardly watch tv anymore.

Most of the SD channels are so soft and blurry they make me crosseyed.

As for the HD channels, they truthfully don't look any better on my big screen than the SD looks on my regular tube tv.

 

[ocnier]

I definitely agree that pic quallity is less, but again I think wait till mpeg 4 rolls and you'll see a change. Just be patient. The pic quality is the only issue I have with D*, everything else is pretty much good to go.

 

[charper1]

Just switch back to your cable. 6 mos you will be begging for DirecTV again.

 

[vurbano]

I definitely agree that pic quallity is less, but again I think wait till mpeg 4 rolls and you'll see a change. Just be patient. The pic quality is the only issue I have with D*, everything else is pretty much good to go.

Do you have any source from D* that says they will improve quality of the HD picture?

Or any source from D* even admitting that there is a problem to correct?

All I have seen D* do is to remove any references to bitrates and resolution from their website!

What makes you think they wont cut the bitrate on mpeg4 to gain more bandwidth and achieve the exact same PQ we have now?

I also have to chuckle when people are anxious for a higher compression scheme than we have now. More compression = better picture? thats a new one to me.

 

[Fgsilva]

And I still dont' see any difference. Could be my TV, could be my eyes (sight gets worse after you reach 40s!! ). but for me it's still pretty go. Also, it's either D* HD with DVR or Evu with no DVR. From dish NADA (well, except CBS HD). No OTA for me where I live! I'm happy with D* (and I'm also stuck with it for the next 2 years) so might as well enjoy it. If/when MPG4 comes and it's better it will be a bonus!!!

I definitely agree that pic quallity is less, but again I think wait till mpeg 4 rolls and you'll see a change. Just be patient. The pic quality is the only issue I have with D*, everything else is pretty much good to go.

 

[colebert]

Just switch back to your cable. 6 mos you will be begging for DirecTV again.

Charper, I respect the work you do here but surely you have to agree that the picture quality leaves something to be desired at this point in time.

I see many positives with directv vs comcast. D* has better channel selection and NFL:ST. But I'm not sure I'd stick with D* if they didn't have NFL:ST. I hope the quality will get better when MPEG4 rolls out because its the same PQ as MPEG2 but with far better compression algorithm.

But it does concern me that D* might just use MPEG4 to cram more channels onto less transponders and keep PQ the same. I'm hanging onto it for now, but its certainly not the slam dunk I expected.

 

[charper1]

I agree all can be better on both sides, but its no where near as bad as you guys make it sound, nor is cable anywhere nearly as great. I say ALL THINGS considered, DirecTV has more to offer at a better overall price & service, PQ that is just as good, and they are in a far better position for the future. If the NAB, local affiliates and their local cable partners would stop lobbing to keep DBS providers from achieving the 100% level playing field, you would then see a shift in market share into DBS' favor.

 

[colebert]

sigh...

 

[guffy1]

sigh...

You could not possibly get a more biased opinion, the guy makes his living off of Directv..

So save yourself the frustration of discussing it with him is my advice..

Everything you say is 100% true, anyone with eyes that actually takes the time to pay attention knows it...

Problem is most people in this world have no clue whats going on around them..

They dont pay attention, and they settle for anything (Or they have a vested interest in directv)

I have subbed to Bev, Charter Cable, Dish, and Directv..

Directv easily has the worst PQ, both SD and HD wise..

Its not even a contest..

 

[charper1]

You could not possibly get a more biased opinion, the guy makes his living off of Directv..

So save yourself the frustration of discussing it with him is my advice..

Everything you say is 100% true, anyone with eyes that actually takes the time to pay attention knows it...

Problem is most people in this world have no clue whats going on around them..

They dont pay attention, and they settle for anything (Or they have a vested interest in directv)

I have subbed to Bev, Charter Cable, Dish, and Directv..

Directv easily has the worst PQ, both SD and HD wise..

Its not even a contest..

Speaking of biased opinions, yours won; not even a contest..... I neither work for, nor represent DirecTV any ANY way, shape, form or fashion, and NEVER have. I also own none of their stock or hold any other vested interests in their products, other than as a viewer. I have used DISH and cable as well in the past. I also have a perfect understanding of what is what and how things work and NEVER settle. Just because your particular metro cable operator may have "tweaked up" service as it were right now, that doesn't make DirecTV a washout, nor does it make cable the "clear winner" by any stretch of the imagination. The vast majority of US cable systems SUCK! and nobody has the NFL Sunday Ticket on cable, plain and simple. The fact is it just sounds like you guys want to rag on whatever you don't have.

 

[guffy1]

Speaking of biased opinions, yours won; not even a contest..... I neither work for, nor represent DirecTV any ANY way, shape, form or fashion, and NEVER have. I also own none of their stock or hold any other vested interests in their products, other than as a viewer. I have used DISH and cable as well in the past. I also have a perfect understanding of what is what and how things work and NEVER settle.

If you are defending D* then you are a settler...

 

[charper1]

"Pissing contest avoidance is now activated." I have NFL ST, nuff said. Dead thread.

 

[dsclark]

On my 65" Sony, Direct HD pq ranges anywhere from below DVD quality to a little bit better than vhs. I have seen some really poor pq on Discovery. I used to love watching Discovery HD, but now it is just unwatchable.
PQ with local HD channels is perfect, but then, hey, that's off the antenna. Luckily, most of what I watch is ota, so my 250 tivo serves its purpose well.
I am on one of those "free HDTV for six months" deals" , but when it is over, I'll cancel it because, it doesn't give me HDTV. Rather, it gives me HDTV programming with SD quality.
I feel that is dishonest. Compare some of the programming on Discovery HD on cable with the same programming on Direct- you'll see a difference as big as that between dvd and vhs...

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

I am a DIRECTV dealer (so I am bias towards DIRECTV, but always answer honestly) and at my home we subscribe to CableVision and of course, DIRECTV. We also have a very good OTA antenna system so we view HD and SD from Cable, Satellite and OTA. I have compared my local HD channels many times between the 3 HD sources by switching the inputs. On my 60" LG plasma we can not see any difference. I have calibrated all of the inputs so maybe a good calibration would help.

I understand that OTA and some cable MSO's do not compress the signal, however, on most HDTV's our eye can not see any difference. So on a well calibrated TV it boils down OTA and some cable may have full bandwidth and maybe even higher resolution, but it's only specs, not any difference in visual PQ.

I have the highest respect for Sean (in fact, my company set up Sean's DIRECTV HD DVR system) and all of the SatelliteGuys members, you are a very knowledgable folks and I do not dispute what you see, but on my calibrated 60" plasma DIRECTV HD image quality is excellent and looks exactly ike ATSC and CableVision.

As a general rule HDTV's do not do a good job of rendering a SD image. Analog direct view CRT TV's display a far better SD image than any HDTV.

DIRECTV is a better service than just about all cable MSO and in the short, mid and long term DIRECTV will be delivering far more HD content than other multi-channel video providers. In most areas, DIRECTV has better pq, is lower cost per month and has more channels than cable carriers.

-Robert

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

On my 65" Sony, Direct HD pq ranges anywhere from below DVD quality to a little bit better than vhs. I have seen some really poor pq on Discovery. I used to love watching Discovery HD, but now it is just unwatchable.
PQ with local HD channels is perfect, but then, hey, that's off the antenna. Luckily, most of what I watch is ota, so my 250 tivo serves its purpose well.
I am on one of those "free HDTV for six months" deals" , but when it is over, I'll cancel it because, it doesn't give me HDTV. Rather, it gives me HDTV programming with SD quality.
I feel that is dishonest. Compare some of the programming on Discovery HD on cable with the same programming on Direct- you'll see a difference as big as that between dvd and vhs...

Please forgive me and in all due respect, that doesn't sound right. Discovery HD is stunning with DIRECTV on any HDTV and is superior to any DVD or VCR.

I would suggest calibration of the input that you view DIRECTV on.

-Robert

 

[damaged]

Fact of the matter is, at(most) times, the compression they(D*) use is way excessive and bandwidth starvation is VERY evident, you can even tell when they are tweaking the compression, you'll see some channels become very lossy, and some (coincedently their advertisments for sunday ticket, and the like) look very nice, yes they may be better than Cable in some areas, but it does not detract from the fact there are obvious PQ problems.

Denying it either means: you do not have the optical accumen to detect it, OR you make your money from the industry in some way, or you're just arguing to watch yourself type.

Calibration, or the lack thereof, does not cause pure black backgrounds turn into greyish blocks in the center (to even suggest that this is a calibration issue is laughable at best), compression does that, nothing else, and to suggest otherwise shows a lack of knowledge on the subject or an attempt to simply mislead the public, as they advertise "the best digital quality around", this would likely be the case with people in the industry (of course if you ask them directly they will say "that's true, but I'm different than every other dealer, honest", noones going to admit to something like that if there is a chance it will lower their income(can't blame em, I guess)).

 

[colebert]

i don't understand why this isn't a clear-cut issue.

There are sites out on the internet that chart the bandwidth D* devotes to HD programming. Some programming is going to be superb, other not so much. It looks like alot of their sports programming gets a full spigot while movies and regular HD programming get choked. And then you lose even more when D* down-shifts the resolution out of true 1080i to save further bandwidth.

D* doesn't have enough bandwidth. Which causes their HD AND SD programming to suffer. Just look at the numbers. They don't lie.

 

[damaged]

Right, I'm, not saying they are bad or evil for this happening (like someone said, they flew too close to the sun and got burned), it's just the denial and covering up that insults.

It's just I hope they are working on fixing it, and if they are, then great, I'm willing to give them a chance being a new sub(relativly) and all.